i'm learning violin now, but my hands are too small, it's really difficult to use the fourth finger to press on the strings, what should i do? i'm so sad that i can't press the strings no matter how hard i try, i'm using the 4/4 size, is it easier for me if i use the 3/4 size?? thanks...

are you within reach of a good music shop that sells different sizes of violin? what does your teacher say? if you're really uncomfortable with your instrument, sure, a smaller one would help.
you will need the fourth finger sooner or later although the stretch gets less higher up the fingerboard.

my teacher said it's ok, but after practising, i still can't press on the strings properly, and it always touch the the strings which is next to it, so i wnat to know whether i should use a smaller one.

There's at least one pro violinist who posts on the board who has very small hands: there are obviously ways around this. I'm sure people in the know will be able to help when they see this message.

If your teacher says it's ok, it probably is. I learned violin on a full size, when I was only five or six, and my hands were seriously little. But I managed on it. From your post, it sounds like you're pretty new to violin, and my guess is that both your stretch, and your accuracy (pressing on the second string) will improve with time. Also, I think when your callouses really kick in, you'll have less trouble with the pressing down. In the mean time you might want to ask your teacher to recommend some exercises to strengthen your hands, particularly your fourth finger.

ok, i understand it, i will use more time to practise it, hoping that i can overcome it! thank you all of you!

Hi yaron and welcome to the forums.

Come on over to the Viva Strings forum. It's an issue we've discussed over there a number of times. And have a look for posts by AmandaL, who has really tiny hands but still is able to be a professional violinist and teacher. She also has a new (since September) pupil who doesn't have very big hands either - me!

I find that my ability to use my fourth finger depends so much on making sure my left hand position is correct to start with, with my hand turned round far enough and wrist relaxed. And I can't reach if I'm gripping the neck of the violin for dear life with my left thumb! (You wouldn't believe the number of times I've been corrected about this )

But the experts on the Viva Strings board will be the people to give you the best advice, not another newbie like me

Cheers

Katyjay

Hi yaron,
My little girl has small hands like you and she did ask the teacher whether she could revert to her smaller violin so that she could reach the particular string which she could not? But no, he said the bigger one was OK for her sizewise because once she's totally relaxed, he advised, she could move/turn/whatever her hand in such a way that when correctly applied, the technique, it works! She then managed to reach that string without any problem in the future although personally, I don't know HOW he and she did it as I was not present during/in the lesson. Maybe you can go back to your teacher next week and tell him/her again the seriousness of your problem and let him/her SHOW you how.

Tess

hi, you all are really nice, i will try my best to overcome the problem, after reading your posts, i have confidence to use the fourth finger properly later on! thank you so much!!

Hi Yaron,

Yes, it's me, the one with really tiny hands - and I mean tiny. Some full-size violins are too big for me, so the instruments I own have backs of around 350 mm or slightly less. In modern terms they are what would be called 7/8th sized violins. They are however popular with the smaller female player, such as myself and those whose hands are genuinely struggling with some of the stretches. Violins with slim necks are a great help to, some of them can be really chunky, especially on modern instruments.

Do you have a short little finger? because that's another problem with me. I'll PM you with the size of my hand and little finger. Do the same in return and I'll try to offer advice from there.

Amanda

I studied the violin for one summer many years ago and was making pretty good progress, but I gave up because of my tiny hands. I was having a lot of trouble with vibrato and the higher positions on the lower strings. On the piano, my left hand can barely reach an octave and my little finger is only two inches long. I'd be interested to hear AmandaL's advice too, in case I ever want to go back to the violin!

So your hands sound to be about the same size as mine, then.

OK, since it would appear there are others out there who seem to have small hands, I'll let you know my vital statistics. They ARE tiny.

Measuring in the PALM SIDE of my hand:

From where hand joins wrist, to the very tip of middle finger is 157 mm

Little finger 47 mm long (or should that be short ).

A short little finger is classified as one whose length doesn't quite reach up to the third joint of the finger next to it.

Ok, now you can all go away and gasp at how small my hands are, how on earth do you play etc. etc. Don't worry, I've heard it all before but what I do get tired of is people treating me like a bit of freak because my hands are what they call, "dolly sized".

One thing I will say is that I CAN use my fourth finger and do. It is a total myth to say that you can't use your little finger because you have small hands etc. It is all down to rotation of the hand and building up strength and stamina in the hand muscles.

Remember, I started playing the violin when I was 10 years old when my joints were very supple. If I had started when I was in my late 20's for example, I may have had problems initially, but with regular practice the hands will loosen up - so no excuses from adult learners please.

Using the fourth finger high up on any of the strings is difficult (if not impossible!) for me, but there are always alternative fingerings and most players with small(ish) hands will invariably devise fingerings that exploit the use of just the first three fingers for the very high positions on all four strings.

ADVICE: If you do have hands as small as mine, or even smaller, then you will most certainly need a 7/8th sized violin. Most 4/4 violins will have a back length of 356 mm or more and probably quite wide shoulders. Avoid instruments with wide shoulders - small hands, short little finger in third position trying to reach the G string can be sheer agony. Look for violins that have smaller back lengths (350 mm or even slightly less), and thin necks, as this eases the stretch across the fingerboard on the G string. Violins with either flat shoulders or narrow shoulders are essential. Many old (c. 200 years) English instruments will suit small-handed players. Modern instruments of this size can be difficult to find, but shop around, they are out there.


EDIT: I can stretch (just) an octave on the piano, but no hope of playing any notes in between! I can manage a 15" backed viola - the stretches aren't as big between the notes as you might expect, but again, the neck if the viola is quite slim. The cello I play is a full-size genuine 18th century baroque instrument - except that in todays terms it would be classified as a 3/4 size. And finally, the oboes I play are professional Gillett system, closed hole, made by Howarth.

Just done a rough measurement because I can't for the life of me find a ruler, and my hand certainly seems to be shorter than yours, Amanda! 14 cm for the length of my palm, and about 4 cm for my little finger. I have never thougth of my hand as being small.

I'm still dealing with 1st position on the violin at the moment, though I have to say my forth finger is fine, I've had no problems with stretching for a string etc, in fact 4th finger is quite easy for me.

Though there is the important fact in my case, that I'm left-handed, which no doubt has aided me in muscle memory, strength and dexterity.

Kraz

Oh and the neck of my violin is slim, I also have asilent yamaha violin which has a much thicker neck in comparision, so I don't play that so much.

It's when you start putting your hands next to other peoples that they look and say, "oh haven't you got such tiny hands!". I get sick of it after the fourth or fifth person has been dragged into the conversation and looked at my hands.

Put it this way, my hands are tiny for my height. I'm 5' 1" and most people I know of that height have hands that are quite bit bigger than mine. I've also got little feet - size 3.

Well I'm 5,7"!!! Only once (well the only time it springs to mind) has someone said to me how little my hands were, she made a big fuss about them, I was like,eh?????

Alto January 31 2006 19.55 p.m

Hi, I too had trouble using my 4th finger at first. I am an adult learner to violin and have just started playing when I was 49. Am 51 now and believe me it does get better. It is amazing how with practice the little finger becomes stronger. If you keep using it, it will get there. I am beginning to not grip the neck of the violin with my left thumb as much now too and am beginning to gain confidence in holding it with my chin. I now need to flex my fingers a little more when coming near the nut on the bow - practice makes perfect. Good luck.

Amanda, you should tell people you haven't got tiny dolly hands, they have "huge giant hands. So there. "

I must remeber that one!!

Even though they WANT to learn, too many adult learners develop the "I can't do that" syndrome, before they've given their brain or body enough time to get the hang of things. The only way to achieve something is through practice and I'm glad to hear that your perseverance has been rewarded with success

Kudos to all the adult learners of violin: I struggle with things still on the fiddle even though I started as a child, and it impresses & inspires me no end how dedicated many of the adult starters are.

AmandaL, i have sent the measurement to you.

after practising a few days, it gets better now, i am now 19, just learn the violin few months, yes, practice make perfect! i know it! i won't give up!