Well as my desperate requests for advice on the General Music Forum weren't noticed by many, I'll try the viva strings forum instead. Basically I've just bought a viola, have no experience on stringed instruments and do not have a teacher and would therefore very much appreciate advice on the following:

1) How tight should the bow hairs be?

2) How much rosin should be used?

3) *feel really stupid* Does the big or small end of the shoulder rest go on the shoulder?

Can't think of any others just now but any other general advice would be very welcome, especially on bad habits which can be picked up.

Thanks,
Boo

Boo, do get a teacher!!! You can do yourself damage if you are not holding it right (especally a viola)

in the meantime;

tighten bow hairs until there is about a pencil width between the hairs and the stick

Use as little rosin as you can get away with, if there are clouds coming off your bow when you play you are using too much. About 4 ish swipes up and down once a week does me (ok I know I don't practise enough, but its horrible sticky stuff and I don't want it in my fiddle). If it is a brand new bow though it will need A LOT for a starter.

Hmmm..not sure on the shoulder rest question, depends on what sort you have I guess. Try it both ways and it should be obvious which is right.

Bad habits...loads, and this is really why you should get a teacher who can watch and advise.

tight enough that they have a "spring" if you bounce the bow against a table. Hopefully this will not be tight enough to bend the stick upwards but you never know ...



First time, assuming a new bow, a vast amount. the hair needs to turn white all the way along. With a new block of rosin and a new bow this can take 30 minutes.


Big end, on every type I've ever seen.

liz

Boo, if it's any comfort I have occasionally come across shoulder rests where I have been unsure till I've experimented a bit, and I've been playing the violin for 20 years and the viola for about 10... so don't feel too stupid!

Thanks for the replies everyone. Jane, I know that if I'm serious in the future I will need a teacher but it's really not practical at the moment, which is why I just wanted to get some things straight so I can at least start. Do you think it would be more beneficial in the long time for me to just leave off playing the viola until it is feasible to get lessons? I would love to get started but I do realise the consequences of unchecked bad habits.



Thans Sarah that does make me feel a lot better. I did feel heartily thick because I've tried it both ways and neither seems drastically wrong or right to be honest. At least I know now, thank Liz.

Even a couple of lessons would be a really good investment


*grins*

Good. No, you're not thick. What seems obvious to an old hand can be bewildering to a beginner. And the viola is so unnatural to hold (I started early so it feels natural on the left shoulder, but ask me to play it on my right shoulder and I'm hopeless - which is what I guess it must feel like to a beginner, completely weird!) that it's not necessarily obvious how the shoulder rest needs to go to help you!

The problem is there is a virtually infinite number of wrong ways to play a string instrument: therefore it is not realistic to expect people to come up with a list of "don'ts" for you.

The only activity I would condone in these circumstances is practice on open strings, i.e. not involve the LH at all. Getting a good bow hold should just-about be feasible, if you can get some advice.

ISTR one school of violin playing (Russian?) required three months of open-string bowing practice before the LH was introduced, so this idea is not so unrealistic as it sounds...

Really good idea!

Yes...if you can get just a few lessons to start with, and then practise on your own. Once you have sorted the proper stance, holds, how to relax while supporting the thing under your chin (hands-free), then you could reasonably do quite a lot on your own, (but do check in a mirror to make sure none of these things are degenerating). I can't stress enough though that with such an unnatural thing as this, not only could you develop really bad habits that are hard to break (and have wasted a lot of time), but you could injure yourself.

I bought myself a viola for last Christmas and have never had lessons. What I do have is a string player friend who very occasionally watches me play (maybe 20 minutes total so far) and doesn't faint with horror, proved that my viola could sound nice right at the beginning and mutters things about vibrato... I also have extreme conciousness of tension when I practice and long hours spent watching good string players play while I count bars rest in orchestral rehearsals so I know exactly what I should see in the mirror. My biggest problem was finding a relaxed way to hold the viola without the left hand always supporting it. I will get lessons, someday... Hmm, must take the poor dear out of its case again!

Argh another dilemma!

I got it out this morning to play, went to tune up and as I was tuning the D string it just snapped on me. I can't describe the string any more than to say it was metal and had coloured bits at either end. Now I know absolutely nothing about strings. Do you have to change the whole set if one breaks? I found this website and would really appreciate if anyone could advise me on what to do next. Viola Strings

Thanks
Boo

Well, obviously, Boo, you will have to replace the string. Is it just a cheap Chinese instrument with factory strings? If so, almost any string you replace it with will be an improvement. If the strings are a particular brand then it would make sense to replace the broken string with the same brand. You don't have to change them all but you might want to do so anyway.

Liz

Yes I had sort of gathered that much!

Hmm no this is a Hungarian instrument, about 10 years old, was recently restrung apparently by the man I bought it off. (I have no qualms about his honesty in this, he is about 70, plays in and composes for several local orchestras and bands.) My only problem is that I don't actually know the brand of the string. Are there any brands known for a good performance to price ratio.

Oh Liz, may I also ask you how I can find out the size of my viola, is it the length of the main body?
Thanks
Boo

Well, either contact the man and ask him what strings they were, or tell us what colour each end was, I bet one of us can identify it.

Yes you measure the body, excluding the bit where the neck joins the body.

Liz

Just asked this on Come In Sit Down. Liz, you're probably more likely to identify the strings from that than a newbie like me.

No idea, sounds like a mixture of whatever he had in the drawer at the time.

In that case, Boo, just go for a standard make. Dominant is probably as good as any on a Hungarian viola

Liz

Hi Liz, Katy, Sarah and everyone else who gave me advice, thanks for your guidance. I got a Thomastik-Infeld dominant D string and fitted it today, it seems to be just fine.

I was also wondering if anyone had heard of the 'All for Strings' range of books? A friend recommended them to me so I have ordered the first two for viola off www.musicroom.com (love this website! ) Has anyone had any experience with these books?

Sorry, Boo, not heard of them... Hope you enjoy them though.

I know this is likely to be a little late as the string will have been replaced, but in France Helicore's viola strings are red on the lower ones and blue on the top.

Might help in the future.

Allan

Thanks Allan, I'll remember that. The new string does seem to be ok, although it's actually thicker than the G String which doesn't seem quite right.

Hi everyone, new problem! Well actually its not new, I've had it for some time but was hoping it would go away. I have a Wolf shoulder rest, which I just cannot find the right position for. I can't seem to hold my viola unaided under my chin for any length of time without my neck feeling really strained, which I'm sure isn't healthy. I was told it was a good shoulder rest so maybe it's the chin rest that isn't quite right. There is nothing 'faulty' with either of them, I just can't seem to find a comfortable resting position. Does anyone have any advice on this?

If you have a long neck (as I do) try to have the the feet of the rest closest to your shoulder higher than the one's furthest away from your shoulder, though this may not be your problem. I had a wolf shoulder rest originally but changed it to a Kun super because of the curved nature of the kun, which the wolf doesn't have to the same degree.

Also I was told not to put the rest really far onto the violin (or in your case, viola) just to have it on the edges of the violin, enough to support the violin but not to restrict your any shoulder movement when you play.

Hope these may have helped,

Kraz

Depends on how long your neck is really - also remember that you don't need to be able to hold your instrument out at a 90 degree angle totally hands free for any great length of time. If the viola is deep enough to fill the gap between your collar bone and chin, you probably don't need a rest at all. If not, then maybe the type of rest is wrong. Can you take your instrument down to a music shop and ask them to let you try different ones on the instrument whilst playing for a while to find the one that's comfortable for you.

It might also be a chinrest problem - I don't know if you have long arms or not, but if you don't, some people like to put their chinrest nearer the middle of the instrument.

I'd give the music shop option a go (if you're certain of needing a rest) and if that doesn't work, a quick trip to a luthier should sort it out.

Good luck, Boo!

Allan

Thanks very much Allan and Kraz. I shall give those suggestions a try next time I practise.

Hi again all, I am looking to get some books of studies from musicroom to help my technique. I was just wondering if anyone had any recommendations, I have found ones by Sevcik, Woof and Kinsey. Has anyone tried any of these or any others that might be useful?

Thanks
Boo

Sevcik is good for bowings, but, it should only ever be used moderately; never more than about 10 minutes a day really otherwise you may end up doing more harm than good. Also look into Mazas and Kreutzer studies.