Full Version: 3rd Octave - Improving Technique
I have come to the conclusion, that my flexibility and technique in the 3rd octave is abosultely horrendous. I can't do C3-G3 runs smoothly at all. This doesn't help, when I am playing Valse, 3rd movement of Suite de Trois Morceau, Godard. Help appreciated.
Is it fingers, or support, or embouchure? I should think different things could help different problems, that's all!
One thing that I have found helps in the 3rd octave, is when playing scales that I know well, I have been adding a note at a time to the top, and still playing at the same speed. So for example when I practice C major now I am playing up to G3 at crotchet = 130. I have found this helps with everything really. I should think longtones in the 3rd octave should help with embouchure and support?
For scales and just getting your fingers moving faster, try splurts if you haven't already. I find they really help getting things going faster.
This was one of the threads that had a lot of scale stuff in it. Should have a rummage and link some more scale things shouldn't I?
Masses of tone and scale threads in Viva WW, I periodically have a check back as there are some reeeeally useful threads languishing in the back pages!
Hope any of this helps...
ps I find the top octave depressingly hard to improve, I think it's hard for everyone *wry grin* (unless someone comes along and proves me wrong...) you are not alone!
pps... just a thought, have you any 3rd octave workbooks?
Ones I know of: the Filas high-register studies (two different books)
Simon Hunt - Scaling the Heights.
One thing that I have found helps in the 3rd octave, is when playing scales that I know well, I have been adding a note at a time to the top, and still playing at the same speed. So for example when I practice C major now I am playing up to G3 at crotchet = 130. I have found this helps with everything really. I should think longtones in the 3rd octave should help with embouchure and support?
For scales and just getting your fingers moving faster, try splurts if you haven't already. I find they really help getting things going faster.
This was one of the threads that had a lot of scale stuff in it. Should have a rummage and link some more scale things shouldn't I?
Masses of tone and scale threads in Viva WW, I periodically have a check back as there are some reeeeally useful threads languishing in the back pages!
Hope any of this helps...
ps I find the top octave depressingly hard to improve, I think it's hard for everyone *wry grin* (unless someone comes along and proves me wrong...) you are not alone!
pps... just a thought, have you any 3rd octave workbooks?
Ones I know of: the Filas high-register studies (two different books)
Simon Hunt - Scaling the Heights.
Thanks a lot, I don't quite get how to splurt though.
No 3rd octave workbooks but have de la sonarite.
No 3rd octave workbooks but have de la sonarite.
OK... will try to explain better!
If I wanted to splurt C major, I would start with C-D, slurred... play it often, and as quickly as possible, but just that... CD.... CD..... CD..... CD..... when it is reeeeeeeeeeally smooth, move on to DE.........DE...........DE..... then EF, FG, etc. Don't forget to come back down as well, and do your CB, BA, AG, etc
Don't move on till each change is played as well as you can manage, the fingers all moving in unison, perfectly smooth and with good tone.
When those are confident and beauuuuuuutifully smooth, start again at the bottom and go CDE.......CDE.......CDE... DEF.........DEF.......DEF......
Once you get into more than 2 notes it's great for practising over the turn at the top, which is often where I go wrong (don't know about anyone else!!!) especially for melodic minors...
Do it with 4 notes too, all the way up and back down. That gets tricky round the turn ie ABCB, BCBA (argh, can't even type it!! lol!) but it's very good practice. If you're feeling very studious you can do 5 6 however many notes, I expect if you can splurt that many notes then your scales will by comparison seem very easy!
Hope this is making sense?
So that's how to do it on a scale... on a run use the same principle, say you have a really random combination, just do the first two notes, then the second to, and so on. Only do as many notes as you can manage in one go, if 2 notes has been thoroughly practised then 3 notes should be OK and so on.
Basically this is a combination of bits from two practice things, one by Philip Johnston in The Practice Revolution, and one by Trevor Wye in Practice Book 6, I took the ideas of both and muddled about with them till I found something that really works for me. Hope this helps!!
If I wanted to splurt C major, I would start with C-D, slurred... play it often, and as quickly as possible, but just that... CD.... CD..... CD..... CD..... when it is reeeeeeeeeeally smooth, move on to DE.........DE...........DE..... then EF, FG, etc. Don't forget to come back down as well, and do your CB, BA, AG, etc
Don't move on till each change is played as well as you can manage, the fingers all moving in unison, perfectly smooth and with good tone.
When those are confident and beauuuuuuutifully smooth, start again at the bottom and go CDE.......CDE.......CDE... DEF.........DEF.......DEF......
Once you get into more than 2 notes it's great for practising over the turn at the top, which is often where I go wrong (don't know about anyone else!!!) especially for melodic minors...
Do it with 4 notes too, all the way up and back down. That gets tricky round the turn ie ABCB, BCBA (argh, can't even type it!! lol!) but it's very good practice. If you're feeling very studious you can do 5 6 however many notes, I expect if you can splurt that many notes then your scales will by comparison seem very easy!
Hope this is making sense?
So that's how to do it on a scale... on a run use the same principle, say you have a really random combination, just do the first two notes, then the second to, and so on. Only do as many notes as you can manage in one go, if 2 notes has been thoroughly practised then 3 notes should be OK and so on.
Basically this is a combination of bits from two practice things, one by Philip Johnston in The Practice Revolution, and one by Trevor Wye in Practice Book 6, I took the ideas of both and muddled about with them till I found something that really works for me. Hope this helps!!
QUOTE(sarah-flute @ Feb 5 2006, 04:46 PM) 
OK... will try to explain better!
If I wanted to splurt C major, I would start with C-D, slurred... play it often, and as quickly as possible, but just that... CD.... CD..... CD..... CD..... when it is reeeeeeeeeeally smooth, move on to DE.........DE...........DE..... then EF, FG, etc. Don't forget to come back down as well, and do your CB, BA, AG, etc
Don't move on till each change is played as well as you can manage, the fingers all moving in unison, perfectly smooth and with good tone.
When those are confident and beauuuuuuutifully smooth, start again at the bottom and go CDE.......CDE.......CDE... DEF.........DEF.......DEF......
Once you get into more than 2 notes it's great for practising over the turn at the top, which is often where I go wrong (don't know about anyone else!!!) especially for melodic minors...
Do it with 4 notes too, all the way up and back down. That gets tricky round the turn ie ABCB, BCBA (argh, can't even type it!! lol!) but it's very good practice. If you're feeling very studious you can do 5 6 however many notes, I expect if you can splurt that many notes then your scales will by comparison seem very easy!
Hope this is making sense?
So that's how to do it on a scale... on a run use the same principle, say you have a really random combination, just do the first two notes, then the second to, and so on. Only do as many notes as you can manage in one go, if 2 notes has been thoroughly practised then 3 notes should be OK and so on.
Basically this is a combination of bits from two practice things, one by Philip Johnston in The Practice Revolution, and one by Trevor Wye in Practice Book 6, I took the ideas of both and muddled about with them till I found something that really works for me. Hope this helps!!
Yes, thanks, a perfect explanation *goes to splurt on Eb minor*
lol, happy splurting! I hope it helps... update me! 
it takes a lot of patience... some of my scales are still not great because I couldn't face working alllllll the way up and down. but the ones I have done have got much better
it takes a lot of patience... some of my scales are still not great because I couldn't face working alllllll the way up and down. but the ones I have done have got much better
Ohh! I like that idea will have to try it really need to get cracking with my scales!
Sonorite will help you with your tone in the high register but not really with dexterity. The best book to get is Taffanel and Gaubert 17 daily exercises. At £20, it's quite expensive, but will last you for years and there are numerous possibilities in using it, and it is fantastic. If I haven't had much time to practice and I have a gig, I live on this book and sonorite to sort me out in time!!!
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