Hey all,

Just after some guidance really.

My teacher formulated a plan at my lesson the other day regarding my exam taking over the next two years but, whilst being extremely excited at the prospect, I can't help but think that it might be beyond my abilities.

I have been having classical lessons for 30mins a week during term time since september and my teacher has put me in for grade 5 (march 13th). I happened to mention to her in passing about needing certain grades for university and she said there's no reason why we can't do grade 8 in june and then work towards a diploma in my A2 year (Upper sixth).

As a first study pianist, I never thought I'd see myself doing grades in voice, nevermind a bloomin' diploma especially within such a short time frame so I don't know if she's got a screw loose or something! Bare (or is it bear) in mind that she went to RNCM and didn't do Advanced Certificate, as she called it, which kinda gave me a clue that she hasn't taught up to Diploma level before and I'm also thinking that 30 mins per week wouldn't really suffice, hence why I'm coming to you guys with a big resounding...


HELP!

Well... grade 8 to first level diploma in two years is do-able - I did it in 18 months, but with a hours lesson a week with no breaks for school holidays AND with a London conservatoire head of vocal studies professor. But what's puzzling me is the grade 5 to grade 8 in a term? Not unless you are nearly grade 8 level NOW (in which case, why are you doing grade 5?) And certainly not genuine grade 5 level to diploma in two years.
I think you need to ask some questions...

Yours confusedly

Ann

Hi Freda

No reason why you shouldn't do that, if you want to. It's really a question of how much you're prepared to work at your singing.

After starting singing lessons in Jan 03, I took my Grade 5 in December 03 as exam practice so that my first singing exam wasn't my Grade 8 in March 04. I then took my ATCL diploma in December 04.

That was on an average of 1 lesson a fortnight and a full time career as a finance director.

Cheers

Katyjay

My teacher said that the 5 would be a warm up because I haven't done singing exams before but I can't really see myself being a grade 8 standard singer within such a short space of time (sept - june), unless you singers really don't have to do much...



Only kidding

I guess you could work on exam specific pieces and pass a diploma in that time. But it doesn't necessarily make you into an all round diploma level musician.
That's why I don't rush grades, and the ATCL is designed to be the standard you can expect to be after a years FULL TIME study at a conservatoire. LTCL after 3 years and FTCL after 4. (At least that's what it said in the syllabus when I took mine)

Katyjay - this is NOT a dig at you - I'm just speaking generally. You are obviously very talented.

Ann

I suppose it could do, if you counted my piano and guitar alongside that or do you think it is too one-discipline-specific?

Thanks Ann. I didn't interpret it as such.

And, to be fair, I had a lot of advantages, such as thirty years' choral singing experience before I ever had a singing lesson, good sight-reading skills, perfect pitch and a fairly good memory, all of which helped.

And I have slowed down a bit - I won't be taking my LTCL until early April, fifteen months from my ATCL. And that's only possible because I ditched the day-job in September to become a full-time musician.

Oh no she's not pushy at all, she's really nice. She's just an opera singer and she doesn't teach that many people so I was just looking for some guidance, there was just this niggling little feeling that's all.

It seems to be quite common in the sixth form college where I work for students to take high grade singing exams without having done any singing exams before. Often they have quite a lot of musical experience (and most have passed Grade 5 theory) but haven't had formal singing lessons before. The Grade 5 first is a good idea if you have time, to stop the 'Oh my goodness I've never taken a singing exam' feeling.

Yeah that's me, grade 5 theory in tow, too many musical events in life...seems about right!

Freda - yes, you obviously have experience in other disciplines. It's just there are so many singing styles to learn - for instance the style for german lieder is very different from french melodie, or italian, etc., etc. Likewise opera from oratorio and show music. Rome wasn't built in a day...
(The more I learn, the more I realise I need to learn...)

Ann

I think you should go for it!
I got put in for G4 after just months... I had a horrible sinking feeling i'd never be able to do it at first... but I did! I put a lot of work into it, however, and it took priority over my other instruments.
If you know you can put the work into it, go for it. Getting to G8 after such a short period of time would be very impressive

I, too, enter people for grades 3 or 4 after a few months as a first grade if they are musical, and often they play another instrument.
Getting to grade 8 and beyond after that is a different kettle of fish. From 6 onwards a language is required for instance, and the mastery of the technique of the voice for the more demanding repertoire takes time. The physical strength of the muscles required for support takes time - like going to a gym - you don't lift the heavy weights straight away. I'm not saying it's impossible - just that most people do not develop this, together with the aural skills required and style awareness, phrasing ability, etc. in that time. The language should not be learnt parrot fashion - you need to know what every word means, not just a rough translation, to be able to put the song across properly. And, of course, you need to learn a variety of repertoire in all periods, otherwise you have only learnt the examination songs. How can you do that in a few months?
If you are grade 8 standard NOW, and grade 5 is only for exam practice, then OK. Otherwise you may run into problems later on. I've had pupils come to me with grade 8 and I've had to take them back because the technique wasn't good enough to move on, and I've sometimes had to correct technical flaws -a wobble for instance can take a year to cure, and it's only because they were pushed to do too difficult songs with a lack of attention to vocal health via correct technique.
Just urging caution, that's all. If you are worried, I suggest a second opinion. Nothing lost.

Ann

Thanks, that's what i'm after, after all!

On the languages front, that shouldn't be a problem as I've studied Italian and Latin in the past and have continued with French and German.

One quick query, Freda, and forgive me if it's too nosey - how long since your voice broke, and are you 100% comfortable with your baritone range (I think you said you're a baritone not a tenor)? I can't remember if you mentioned it, but you would definitely need to be well beyond your break to be contemplating two grades in one year.

Interesting discussion about this very topic in the General Music Forum, under Marking Criteria Across the Grades...

Ann

Crikey if I'm 17 now....and ummm..... ooh so that'd make me five....then there was my Aunt Lizzie's best friend's wife...so 20 plus 5 equals 30....I'd say about 5 years or so now.

Every thing that AnnC has said is extremely wise advice.

I have a degree in music, and Singing was my first study instrument. I had a good tutor, had additional lessons on Instrumental Knowledge which incorporated physiology and the repertoire - Lute Songs, Early Italian Songs, Purcell, Handel, Mozart, Lieder, Melodie and English Art Songs.

But again I know I have gaps in my knowledge and really enjoy it when I come up against repertoire I have not done before.

Grade 5 to 8 in a term strikes me as very ambitious. I have known people who are ready to go straight to Grade 8, but they normally play another instrument, and have had a lot of Choral experience too.

As for doing a diploma. Wait. There is no point rushing things. You are a young singer, and its better to do well at a lower grade than rush into things and do badly.