I am writing a composition in G minor. I am confused whether I should be using F# because the G minor harmonic scale, however, when I do this it means some chords become major. So how should I go about it?

You mean f sharp in the melody or in the harmony? In the melody it's fine.

Ok, so I need to refrain from F# in the harmony. Thanks very much for your response so promtply

Nicki - chord 5 in a minor key is usually a major chord. SO D major chord in G minor is fine.
M


Not necessarily - see above ...

Why is writing minor variations so hard?

A harmonic minor scale has a raised 7th (in this case - F#), therefore the dominant chord in a minor key is major. To my understanding, the harmonies should include this raised 7th otherwise you are changing the tonality unduly.

Ahh, thanks I had forgotten about that.

What other chords are major in a minor key?

Only the dominant and sub-mediant are a major chord.

I never said I had all the answers!!!


just remember that chord 5 (V) in a minor key is major. In G minor it's DF#A

in C minor it's G B D

you can have a minor chord if you want but if you are writing in traditional harmony style it's more usual to have a major chord. If the bass is descending (eg G F E D it might be in keeping to use the descending form of the melodic minor scale, eg G F Eb D. Hope I'm not confuzzling you more ...

Nicki, if you write out a G minor scale and create triads above each of the notes, you will see which chords are available to you. Because of the two forms of the minor scale, there are two possible chords for each note (except the tonic) because each other triad can include either a raised or a lowered 6th or 7th. Any of these chords are permissible in your harmony, but, as in major harmonisation, some are found much more frequently than othere. You can do quite a lot with just G minor and D major chords, for example.

Chord I : G, Bb, D

II : A, C, Eb

III : Bb, D, F#

IV : C, Eb , G

V : D, F#, A (same as D major chord I)

VI : Eb, G, Bb (same as Eb major chord I)

VII : F#, A, C

Hope this helps!

Really? How about chord VII? (Just interested, not by any means questioning your knowledge!)

Sorry, forgot submediant. Have edited.

Ok. When I have finished this, and recorded it through Audacity, would you be able to tell me how minorish it sounds? Thankyou

Think chord VII is diminished?
someone will probably correct me in a bit though...

I thought it was diminished in a major key, and ended up very similar to chord V7 or something, that's why I was curious...

If you follow the advice above Nicki, I'm sure you'll be fine. Would enjoy listening to the finished product

Good luck!

Great minds think alike, barry-clari. While I was suggesting Nicki did this, you did it for her.

If I am modulating from G minor to D minor, with the last beat of a bar being in chord V, to chord I of the next being D minor, do I need to use a C#?

Also, in D minor, I would need to use C#s and E naturals? (I have a Bb in the key signature)

Ahh this is sounding pants

1 yes 2 yes 3 NO

It does and Finale Notepad keeps freezing...

I'm sure all the great classical works had their 'rough draft' moments when they were being written, so don't lose heart Nicki.

Yes, you need C#, and E natural in D minor.

Nicki, do you possess the Telemann Fantasias? If you do, take a look at No 8 (in E minor) and see how he does the modulations in the Spirituoso. It's a good example of moving around in from one minor key to another.

No Telemann fantasias here

It is rubbish, and I have to finish this today, and write at least one more by next Friday

If I am modulating to D minor, I really, can't put an F# in the harmony can I....!

*sighs*

Chord VII is diminished in both major and minor, to go back to a question some way back!

Minor keys are awkward as you have 3 versions of a minor scale (plus numerous modes....) - harmonic, melodic (ascending/descending) and natural, so for example chord III (on Bb) doesn't necessarily have to have the F sharp (BTW where's the symbol for sharp? I don't seem to have one on my keyboard....) it could be a Bb major chord instead (and as the relative of G minor is Bb major anyway, it's not exactly unnatural sounding.)

I'm just looking at the Anna Butterworth harmony book, and she says that because of the different forms of the minor scale, each degree of the minor scale (except the tonic) has 2 triads which can be built on it, depending on whether the 6th and 7th degrees of the scale are lowered or raised.....

so for example, in G minor

ii could be diminished (A-C-Eb) or minor (A-C-E)
III could be major (Bb-D-F) or augmented (Bb-D-F sharp)
IV could be minor (C-Eb-G) or major (C-E-G)
V could be minor (D-F-A) or major (D-Fsharp-A) although normally the major version is used, with the raised 3rd as this is the leading note of the key.
VI could be major (Eb-G-Bb) or diminished (E-G-Bb)
VII could be major (F-A-C) or diminished (Fsharp-A-C)

Don't know if this is more confusing or whether it's given you more options to experiment with.....
Hope the latter!!!

Thanks Chocolate dog.

Given up with the composition for the moment, it sounds terrible

A suggestion Nicki.

If you haven't done so already, why not write yourself a beautiful melody, then have a go at harmonising it? You might feel better if you've got a good melody to work with.

Good luck!

When I was learning higher grade theory in the early 1980s, you had to learn the type of chord it was for each degree of the scale. I made up a little song to remember them! Here they are (from memory of course ):

Major
I Major
II Minor
III Minor
IV Major
V Major
VI Minor
VII Diminished

Minor
I Minor
II Diminished
III Augmented
IV Minor
V Major
VI Major
VII Diminished

Barry - I would if I hadn't written and harmonised 8 bars of it before today

I'd love to hear the original melody, Nicki.

I did in Audacity the theme followed by variation I, then the first 8 bars of II, I'll send it to you.

I am no expert at harmony, but I think you should try and only put F# in the harmony and not the melody, and try and get as few major chords as possible. If the tune is going up, you could use F#.