Of all musical activities, composing has always been the one most shrouded in mystery. There are plenty of approved methods for playing instruments, singing, teaching or even for listening to music, but when it comes to composing, everyone seems to have his own approach, and some people just don't know how to get started.
Therefore, I'd like to present some questions about composing methods and customs, to all experienced composers at these forums.
*Do you apply just one method, do you have one or several favourite methods to compose, or does every work come about in a different way?
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
*When composing for large settings, do you instantly construct a complete orchestral score, just progressing in time, or do you first work out some melodic lines and essential harmonic elements, before filling out the rest?
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
Full Version: The "composing Method Questionnaire"
I am working hard at the moment to meet deadlines for the National Eisteddfod closing date of April 1st. When I write music I always begin with an idea of what I want, or have to compose. Then I sit down with pencil and writing paper, not manuscript yet, and make notes of the type of work, the instrumentation, devices that I may use, possible key scheme, form etc and of the mood that I want to create. Then I go to my manuscript paper and begin to play with melodies, chords, and so on. I have a rough idea of what will happen and when by this time, a bit like planning a layout for a garden. Then I go to the computer and begin mousing in notes, in a patchwork fashion at first. I can hear it clearly in my head although not always the sounds that more than four different kinds of instrument will make. For example I find it far easier to "hear" a string quartet than a violin, oboe, bassoon and harp ensemble when all the members of the group are playing at once. When a work is finished I make a point of not changing anything for at least a week! Otherwise I would be like an artist who cannot stop and who overpaints everything. 
I'm not massively experienced but I do enjoy composing when I get to do it by choice, so I spend a lot of time fiddling around with compositions.
*Do you apply just one method, do you have one or several favourite methods to compose, or does every work come about in a different way?
I have different methods for different instruments/ensembles.
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
Yes, whenever it's anything worth writing down and keeping it will be something I hear in my head first. Once I dreamed an opening to a symphony and wrote that down. Unfortunately the rest of it I never heard
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
Yeah, because I hear stuff in my head, including the instrument, I can just write it down without needing a violin or whatever to work it out. Sometimes I'll check out harmonies that I already have on the piano. I don't sit down at a desk and work though, it just happens when it happens.
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
Yes!! It's so cool! Chords sometimes, but I can hear an orchestra playing stuff no problem. It scares me.
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
8 bars is a common length of time for me, dunno why. I mean, sometimes I know a whole piece in my head before I pick up a pen but when I write, it's done in 8 bar chunks just because its easier that way, so you don't end up getting ahead in one part and then having to go all the way back to the beginning and play the piece in your head again.
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
Ummm...if I know what that question means, then yeah.
*When composing for large settings, do you instantly construct a complete orchestral score, just progressing in time, or do you first work out some melodic lines and essential harmonic elements, before filling out the rest?
I hear the orchestra in my head, cept once I thought of a concerto idea and then I only properly could feel the solo line. But...sometimes if harmony is the main thing, then I hear that most, or if the melody is the most important thing, I might not hear a harmony which works with it. Rhythm is a problem.
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
Just like real
That was fun.
*Do you apply just one method, do you have one or several favourite methods to compose, or does every work come about in a different way?
I have different methods for different instruments/ensembles.
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
Yes, whenever it's anything worth writing down and keeping it will be something I hear in my head first. Once I dreamed an opening to a symphony and wrote that down. Unfortunately the rest of it I never heard
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
Yeah, because I hear stuff in my head, including the instrument, I can just write it down without needing a violin or whatever to work it out. Sometimes I'll check out harmonies that I already have on the piano. I don't sit down at a desk and work though, it just happens when it happens.
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
Yes!! It's so cool! Chords sometimes, but I can hear an orchestra playing stuff no problem. It scares me.
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
8 bars is a common length of time for me, dunno why. I mean, sometimes I know a whole piece in my head before I pick up a pen but when I write, it's done in 8 bar chunks just because its easier that way, so you don't end up getting ahead in one part and then having to go all the way back to the beginning and play the piece in your head again.
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
Ummm...if I know what that question means, then yeah.
*When composing for large settings, do you instantly construct a complete orchestral score, just progressing in time, or do you first work out some melodic lines and essential harmonic elements, before filling out the rest?
I hear the orchestra in my head, cept once I thought of a concerto idea and then I only properly could feel the solo line. But...sometimes if harmony is the main thing, then I hear that most, or if the melody is the most important thing, I might not hear a harmony which works with it. Rhythm is a problem.
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
Just like real
That was fun.
QUOTE(another crazy pianist @ Mar 7 2006, 08:58 PM) 
*Do you apply just one method, do you have one or several favourite methods to compose, or does every work come about in a different way?
It depends partly on why I am composing something - doing something for A levels when I was at school is quite different from doing something for my own pleasure.
QUOTE
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
Occasionally, generally I had an idea or inspiration in my head but usually that becomes a composition by means of me playing it and playing around with it.
QUOTE
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
I'm a mediocre pianist, so generally it's either in my head or on whatever instrument it's intended for.
QUOTE
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
Yes but I find complex things very difficult or impossible to actually replicate exactly, to make it sound how I want
So I can imagine a whole orchestral score, but I wouldn't be able to write it down QUOTE
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
I usually write things down to a greater or lesser level of detail because I would forget things when I went on to other bits
QUOTE
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
Not sure what you mean, I do have a pretty strong aural memory though.
QUOTE
*When composing for large settings, do you instantly construct a complete orchestral score, just progressing in time, or do you first work out some melodic lines and essential harmonic elements, before filling out the rest?
I work best in melodies not in chords, the counterpoint more than the harmony, so if I was composing for a large group (don't think I've ever composed for more than 4 parts....) I'd probably work out melodies etc first.
QUOTE
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
It can be.
Great contributions, so far ! Thanks a lot !
Bohemian, your answers are quite impressive ! You remind me of Mozart !
The question about the aural memory is about your ability to remember what comes into in your head, so you don't have to immediately write down every bit of music, because you would forget it otherwise.
Bohemian, your answers are quite impressive ! You remind me of Mozart !
The question about the aural memory is about your ability to remember what comes into in your head, so you don't have to immediately write down every bit of music, because you would forget it otherwise.
Oh right!
I guess I can do that, but unless I am really on a run, I like to write things down in some form or other, it is SO infuriating if you had a really great idea and cannot recreate it quite right.
Tape recorders are useful in that respect
but I do have a reasonably strong aural memory.
I guess I can do that, but unless I am really on a run, I like to write things down in some form or other, it is SO infuriating if you had a really great idea and cannot recreate it quite right.
Tape recorders are useful in that respect
but I do have a reasonably strong aural memory.
I don't. It's so frustrating to loose interesting ideas...
It is - which is why I like to record anything interesting in some way shape or form instead of trusting that it'll still be in my head tomorrow!
Jotting things down on manuscript, or recording a snippet, really helps.
Do you compose much?
Jotting things down on manuscript, or recording a snippet, really helps.
Do you compose much?
QUOTE(another crazy pianist @ Mar 7 2006, 08:58 PM)
Of all musical activities, composing has always been the one most shrouded in mystery. There are plenty of approved methods for playing instruments, singing, teaching or even for listening to music, but when it comes to composing, everyone seems to have his own approach, and some people just don't know how to get started.
Therefore, I'd like to present some questions about composing methods and customs, to all experienced composers at these forums.
*Do you apply just one method, do you have one or several favourite methods to compose, or does every work come about in a different way?
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
*When composing for large settings, do you instantly construct a complete orchestral score, just progressing in time, or do you first work out some melodic lines and essential harmonic elements, before filling out the rest?
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
I have only composed seriously for chamber ensembles so far, I have completed one 3 movement piano trio and nearly completed my second 3 movement piano quintet.
Sometimes I work a motif out on the piano first, sometimes I click random notes on Sibelius and see if I get inspired, sometimes a tune just hits me out of the blue. I have lots of different composing methods, though I'd say I find developing a good motif is the easiest part, finding it is the hardest part for me. I create in my head the sounds of chords I want to have, I experiment with this quite a lot for interesting effects.
(To Sarah's quote:)
I've been composing since I was a child (about 1980), but at present I 've got much more "unfinished" stuff than complete works. I've written piano pieces, mixed choir songs and chamber music. But indeed, I really need tape recorder... I also wonder if there exists any good computer software with which you can simulate a philharmonic orchestra or other ensembles. That would be a great help to compose orchestral works.
I've been composing since I was a child (about 1980), but at present I 've got much more "unfinished" stuff than complete works. I've written piano pieces, mixed choir songs and chamber music. But indeed, I really need tape recorder... I also wonder if there exists any good computer software with which you can simulate a philharmonic orchestra or other ensembles. That would be a great help to compose orchestral works.
Things like Sibelius and Finale will play back anything that you type into them - including orchestral scores - but personally I find computer generated sounds really disappointing and uninspiring so I tend to use things like that as a last resort! Very useful, but just not very magial to listen to....
Yeah, that's what I was thinking of : you can use it to check out complicated things that you're not sure what it would sound like.
Yes, ideal for things like that, though Finale (the free version) I know is a bit of a pain to write things into. Sibelius is supposed to be easier but it should be, it's expensive! They can be useful but I still don't like them... 
My preferred method of testing out a composition for orchestra is to have an orchestra play it. Call me old fashioned...
QUOTE(another crazy pianist @ Mar 7 2006, 08:58 PM)
Of all musical activities, composing has always been the one most shrouded in mystery. There are plenty of approved methods for playing instruments, singing, teaching or even for listening to music, but when it comes to composing, everyone seems to have his own approach...
No surprise really. It's a deeply individual act. Some composers see their physical selves merely as a vehicle through which something spiritual passes (note: NOT religious, I mean spiritual). Others see themselves in a more cerebrally active role.
QUOTE
and some people just don't know how to get started.
Composing arises from a need to express oneself somehow through the media of sound/music. Without that need, starting will be difficult. Commissions demand that you get into a frame of mind to generate whatever sets you off.
One needs some craft and a good inner ear, depending on what one's doing. If you compose music depending on chance operations your consideration of the basic material will be different. If you haven't a clue how to notate what's about to outpour then...? (best to record it on a cd which will effectively become 'the score')
Like all creative acts, composing will always be shrouded in mystery. It touches on Mysteries within the creator.
WS
It's weird with me, coz if I hear a tune and accompaniment in my head, I can write it down, but if you play me a tune and ask me to write it down I can't.
I don't have a set method, although I know I hate it when someone says "have 10 bars written before monday". What if I don't want to write 10 bars, snce my phrasing stops after 9?! I can't do deadlines like that.
I guess I do write down the music from my head, since I don't usually use an instrument when I start.
It's not purely mental, because I can't completley imagine the accompaniment- only certain aspects of it. I can get an overall picture, but there might be one note that sounds dodgy that I have to check.
I can't hear chords are orchestral sounds I've never heard before. I can only do it if I think "oh that's an A major chord 1st inv" and then I can hear it
I write down every note, I don't really think about where it's going til it's finished!
My aural memory's rubbish, so no
Dunno bout the orchestral thing, never thought about it!
Depends on the music- if it's orchestral I can never hear it as real- too many parts. If it's smaller ensembles I can
I don't have a set method, although I know I hate it when someone says "have 10 bars written before monday". What if I don't want to write 10 bars, snce my phrasing stops after 9?! I can't do deadlines like that.
I guess I do write down the music from my head, since I don't usually use an instrument when I start.
It's not purely mental, because I can't completley imagine the accompaniment- only certain aspects of it. I can get an overall picture, but there might be one note that sounds dodgy that I have to check.
I can't hear chords are orchestral sounds I've never heard before. I can only do it if I think "oh that's an A major chord 1st inv" and then I can hear it
I write down every note, I don't really think about where it's going til it's finished!
My aural memory's rubbish, so no
Dunno bout the orchestral thing, never thought about it!
Depends on the music- if it's orchestral I can never hear it as real- too many parts. If it's smaller ensembles I can
*Do you apply just one method, do you have one or several favourite methods to compose, or does every work come about in a different way?
every one comes a different way.
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
What I hear in my head usually. Sometimes I'm just playing and decide to write it out.
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
Varies. When I've started something I sometimes work at the piano or desk but usually think about it away from them.
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
Unsure about the question. I can usually construct something that's written (not always. Microtones give me jip). I can hear something and work out how it's constructed, not always though.
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
Varies.
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
Sometimes. If I'm out and something comes to my mind I try to rehearse it so that I can remember it. I may make notes on anything to hand.
*When composing for large settings, do you instantly construct a complete orchestral score, just progressing in time, or do you first work out some melodic lines and essential harmonic elements, before filling out the rest?
Haven't done a large setting yet! I prefer to work in short score with jottings about what the instruments are doing.
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
Fairly well but it depends on how familiar I am with the work. In relaxed moments I sometimes discover new things about a score in my head. I can create the sound of new scores in my head if they aren't too difficult.
Kai
This is a really interesting thread.
I have just played and composed from tunes I hear in my head over the years for fun, never writing anything down.
My 8 yr old daughter has just composed a tune and we've written it down freehand.
Having read this thread, I've gone onto Sibelius website and am amazed at what is out there these days....none of this when I was at school.
The Sibelius 4 looks good and I've downloaded a demo.
Has anyone got this, and if so...what do they think?
I like it as the simpler the better with me and computers.
Thanks to all contributions...and I'll check out the forums for similar threads!
I have just played and composed from tunes I hear in my head over the years for fun, never writing anything down.
My 8 yr old daughter has just composed a tune and we've written it down freehand.
Having read this thread, I've gone onto Sibelius website and am amazed at what is out there these days....none of this when I was at school.
The Sibelius 4 looks good and I've downloaded a demo.
Has anyone got this, and if so...what do they think?
I like it as the simpler the better with me and computers.
Thanks to all contributions...and I'll check out the forums for similar threads!
QUOTE(bohemian @ Mar 8 2006, 10:30 AM)
My preferred method of testing out a composition for orchestra is to have an orchestra play it. Call me old fashioned...
I should think that's everyone's preferred method, but not terribly practical 99% of the time.
QUOTE(sarah-flute @ Mar 8 2006, 12:27 PM)
QUOTE(bohemian @ Mar 8 2006, 10:30 AM)
My preferred method of testing out a composition for orchestra is to have an orchestra play it. Call me old fashioned...
I should think that's everyone's preferred method, but not terribly practical 99% of the time.
Most school orchestras would be willing to play through something once or twice for you, I discovered.
*Do you apply just one method, do you have one or several favourite methods to compose, or does every work come about in a different way?
I like to use two methods - one working out chords and writing a tune for it. Two writing a tune and the finding chords to fit
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
I like to improvise music and see what happens - if i like it i write it down
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
My composing is at the piano mainly and some at the computer- i do some melody work on trumpet - but normally on piano
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
no
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
i like to think of a whole passage - otherwise i just end up giong nowhere
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
no
*When composing for large settings, do you instantly construct a complete orchestral score, just progressing in time, or do you first work out some melodic lines and essential harmonic elements, before filling out the rest?
i normally work out which sections should go where - and then work on those sections individually - i like my pices to have structure before i start.
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
I dont hear music very clearly in my head - i can hear it - but not large groups or certain instruments
I like to use two methods - one working out chords and writing a tune for it. Two writing a tune and the finding chords to fit
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
I like to improvise music and see what happens - if i like it i write it down
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
My composing is at the piano mainly and some at the computer- i do some melody work on trumpet - but normally on piano
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
no
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
i like to think of a whole passage - otherwise i just end up giong nowhere
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
no
*When composing for large settings, do you instantly construct a complete orchestral score, just progressing in time, or do you first work out some melodic lines and essential harmonic elements, before filling out the rest?
i normally work out which sections should go where - and then work on those sections individually - i like my pices to have structure before i start.
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
I dont hear music very clearly in my head - i can hear it - but not large groups or certain instruments
I don't have accesss to a school orchestra, no longer being in school. And our local school's orchestra is bad even if I wished to ask them.
So better not ask them... You'd risk to get really really depressed about your composing skills...
Exactly! 
In all seriousness, it was bad enough getting a small string orchestra together when I was in 6th form, and since then the standard has by all account dropped through the floor. I don't want my compositions murdered!
In all seriousness, it was bad enough getting a small string orchestra together when I was in 6th form, and since then the standard has by all account dropped through the floor. I don't want my compositions murdered!
That's important because unless you write for the people rather than instruments OR you can rehearse it until it is right (unlikely you'd be allowed time for that) you won't be able to 'test your composition out' except in the roughest terms.
Better, as Sarah says, to make up an ensemble from among those who can play. With fewer you have the chance to work closer with individuals. It happened at my school (and I've always been happier to write for ensembles since, headache it may be organising them sometimes).
A good amateur orchestra might be prepared to give a work a run through, perhaps a concert performance, so keep things as simple and clear as possible (eg split complex time signatures to simple ones - forget 11/8 followed by 7/8 etc and bring them down to 2s, 3s and 4s; put in plenty of cues). There's nothing worse than counting dozens of bars' rest in awkward, varying time signatures - 90% of your rehearsal time will be spent trying to get them together otherwise.
Also, be sure that you DO know what you've composed. If necessary be ready to demonstrate with a piano reduction - embarrassing when a conductor runs through a section then asks the composer if it was all right. The composer deferently says "Erm, yes thank you," whereon the conductor says, "well let me tell you, the oboe came in a bar late at bar 23 and the horns two beats early in bar 55...." etc
WS
Better, as Sarah says, to make up an ensemble from among those who can play. With fewer you have the chance to work closer with individuals. It happened at my school (and I've always been happier to write for ensembles since, headache it may be organising them sometimes).
A good amateur orchestra might be prepared to give a work a run through, perhaps a concert performance, so keep things as simple and clear as possible (eg split complex time signatures to simple ones - forget 11/8 followed by 7/8 etc and bring them down to 2s, 3s and 4s; put in plenty of cues). There's nothing worse than counting dozens of bars' rest in awkward, varying time signatures - 90% of your rehearsal time will be spent trying to get them together otherwise.
Also, be sure that you DO know what you've composed. If necessary be ready to demonstrate with a piano reduction - embarrassing when a conductor runs through a section then asks the composer if it was all right. The composer deferently says "Erm, yes thank you," whereon the conductor says, "well let me tell you, the oboe came in a bar late at bar 23 and the horns two beats early in bar 55...." etc
WS
QUOTE(another crazy pianist @ Mar 7 2006, 08:58 PM)
*Do you apply just one method, do you have one or several favourite methods to compose, or does every work come about in a different way?
I don't have a "method" for composition, in a sense that a composer of the past would understand. I work at a computer with a MIDI keyboard for input and Finale to play back and record. In compositional terms, I learnt about counterpoint from Renaissance to late Baroque times and structural forms from Baroque to late 20th century while studying for my degree. I have also studied the psycho-acoustics of dissonance.
QUOTE
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
It never comes "straight from heaven". Even if I have an idea in the shower, I work away at it mentally, trying variations, and what I finally notate is likely to be different again.
QUOTE
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
See above. What I could write without feedback, either from a piano or from the computer, would be much more conventional and boring than what I usually manage.
QUOTE
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
No. I am much more likely to construct a chord initially by varying a standard chord, feeding in a bit of my knowledge of perceptual acoustics, and then tweaking it when I hear the feedback.
QUOTE
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
Varies from one chord to an 8-bar passage.
QUOTE
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
I have a strong aural memory for the works of other composers, including their orchestrations, but my memory for my own ideas is not accurate. I have discovered that this doesn't matter. I don't sit at the computer thinking, "What was that phrase I thought of an hour ago?": I give up very soon and write something else, probably just as good.
QUOTE
*When composing for large settings, do you instantly construct a complete orchestral score, just progressing in time, or do you first work out some melodic lines and essential harmonic elements, before filling out the rest?
I usually have a formal outline and write a large section of it. This clarifies the requirements of the rest of the movement. In sonata form, the first subject group suggests the overall nature that the second subject group must have; these together then guide the rest of the movement. In a multi-movement work, each influences its successors.
QUOTE
*How clearly do you hear music in your head?
I am often surprised that what I invent in my head fails when I notate it, or needs tweaking.
QUOTE
Is it just like real?
No; unhelpfully, it is nearest real for works that have already been written, especially other people's.
Over the years, I have concluded that I am a rather unimaginative composer, compared to some of my fellow students, and well short of the aural skills, not only of the great masters but of a lot of competent composers of the present. I do have a fairly wide knowledge of art music, some of jazz and some of popular music from 1880 to 1950, so I can mix styles reasonably compatibly and with some feeling of novelty. Also, I have some appreciation of balance, both within phrases and in the large (10 to 30 minutes).
QUOTE(another crazy pianist @ Mar 7 2006, 11:27 PM)
(To Sarah's quote:)
I've been composing since I was a child (about 1980), but at present I 've got much more "unfinished" stuff than complete works. I've written piano pieces, mixed choir songs and chamber music. But indeed, I really need tape recorder... I also wonder if there exists any good computer software with which you can simulate a philharmonic orchestra or other ensembles. That would be a great help to compose orchestral works.
there certainly is. it can never be as good as the real thing but a bit of care gives reasonable reuslts and a million times better than the racket spewed out by standard midi cards.
you can get samples of almost everything ready to spread automatically in your sampling software so you don't have to assign every sample to every note for the instrument [where applicable].
for standard orchestra you can't do better than Miroslav Philharmonik [has things like alto and bass flute, cor anglais, double bassoon]. also includes choir. all on 2 dvds. it's been reveiwed in the march issue of sound on sound.
the great thing - costs but £399 where six years ago it was about £1500. it's more than enough for media-type orchestral music. [you might have trouble doing the first movement of walton's first symphony, however!]
http://www.philharmonik.com/
downsides? 1 -it's a bit of a sweat getting all the parameters just like you want them. strings for example have all the different styles even col legno i think, so pizz, muted, sul pont, trem, spiccato etc in: solo, ensemble, orchestra etc come as standard but you have to choose them. they also come in at least 2 dynamics [if my memory is right the samples change automatically when you set the midi level [how you do that depends on your composing software].
2 -demanding on your computer. reading all the samples in will cost you 7gb.
you can get many other samples to do particular instruments. superb strings these days.
the free ones you find on the net are sometimes okay but are mostly a 'not with my bargepole' job.
time+space is the catalogue to look at.
http://www.timespace.com/
QUOTE(SirPrancealot @ Mar 10 2006, 08:43 AM)
Yes! They have lots of sample samples to listen to. Try the Prosamples Volume 13 Choirs. It's under search by category and vocals. The Complete Symphonic Collection, category: instruments is revealing but the price is a little out of reach and you need Giga 3 as well.
your spoiled for choice.
worth listening to the 'symphonic collection'.
'symphonic harp' - i'd love to have the demo track let alone the samples! symphonic strings collection is good too. they get better all the time.
but yep, you need giga so quite an outlay if you want the collection complete if starting from scratch.
edit- btw, giga 'orchestra' comes with a fair load of vienna orchestral samples. not everything but a start.
Thanks a lot ! I'll check that out !
SirP, never heard of that before, sounds good if one was doing some serious composition... didn't even know such a thing existed!
*Do you apply just one method, do you have one or several favourite methods to compose, or does every work come about in a different way?
I think everyone composes differently. I don't exactly know how I compose, I go into a completely different state of mind when I'm doing so and I often don't remember the process afterwards. I really don't know if I have a method or if it stays the same every time.
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
I am indeed doing this. I'm not sure if it comes from heaven though! I don't know where it does come from... it just seems to appear there.
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
Mostly when I'm doing other things there will be something going on in my head. I consider this composing because occasionally I'll stop and think "oh, that's quite decent, I'll have to remember that and write it down". The rest of it I do at the writing desk... occasionally I'll do something at the piano... but that's usually improvisation, a different type of composing...
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
Yes, I did this for my A-level composition - I had the lid of the grand piano open and the bell of the French horn pointing into it. This produced the sound I wanted! (Sadly on the recording my friend is playing an upright so you don't get the full effect). I can also do chords although when I hear them in my head I have to analyse them to work out all the individual notes!
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
Depends on the piece. Usually I do a couple of bars at a time. But generally I'll write a couple of bars and it'll just keep flowing, like it does when I write prose.
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
Yes, because I do most of it away from a computer or instruments.
*When composing for large settings, do you instantly construct a complete orchestral score, just progressing in time, or do you first work out some melodic lines and essential harmonic elements, before filling out the rest?
Again depends on the piece. Usually I do the whole score at once.
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
Like it is when I listen to a concert or a CD... or even when I'm playing in a concert or something. It is just like real. Although I don't think music seems real when I hear it.
I think everyone composes differently. I don't exactly know how I compose, I go into a completely different state of mind when I'm doing so and I often don't remember the process afterwards. I really don't know if I have a method or if it stays the same every time.
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
I am indeed doing this. I'm not sure if it comes from heaven though! I don't know where it does come from... it just seems to appear there.
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
Mostly when I'm doing other things there will be something going on in my head. I consider this composing because occasionally I'll stop and think "oh, that's quite decent, I'll have to remember that and write it down". The rest of it I do at the writing desk... occasionally I'll do something at the piano... but that's usually improvisation, a different type of composing...
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
Yes, I did this for my A-level composition - I had the lid of the grand piano open and the bell of the French horn pointing into it. This produced the sound I wanted! (Sadly on the recording my friend is playing an upright so you don't get the full effect). I can also do chords although when I hear them in my head I have to analyse them to work out all the individual notes!
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
Depends on the piece. Usually I do a couple of bars at a time. But generally I'll write a couple of bars and it'll just keep flowing, like it does when I write prose.
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
Yes, because I do most of it away from a computer or instruments.
*When composing for large settings, do you instantly construct a complete orchestral score, just progressing in time, or do you first work out some melodic lines and essential harmonic elements, before filling out the rest?
Again depends on the piece. Usually I do the whole score at once.
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
Like it is when I listen to a concert or a CD... or even when I'm playing in a concert or something. It is just like real. Although I don't think music seems real when I hear it.
Not experienced but thought I'd post anyway
*Do you apply just one method, do you have one or several favourite methods to compose, or does every work come about in a different way?
I dont think I have an actual method, most of my comps sound similar but I compose them in different ways I guess, not quite sure how...
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
A lot of music I just randomly hear, yes, though sometimes I suddenly figure out a tune when I'm messing about on the piano
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
I rarely write down compositions, i prefer just to compose in my head as ideas come quicker. I always use piano for this. But when the piece is more or less done, I'll sit down and write it up if I can be bothered.
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
Nope, I'm terrible!
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
I always have a general idea of the structure of the piece, and more or less know what the passage will go like, and just need to figure out specifics. Sometimes I have ideas for different passages of the piece and need to link them together.
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
Sometimes, but not really. I'm very much a 'sit down at instrument' person
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
Yes definitely! Though it always sounds better when actually played of course
*Do you apply just one method, do you have one or several favourite methods to compose, or does every work come about in a different way?
I dont think I have an actual method, most of my comps sound similar but I compose them in different ways I guess, not quite sure how...
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
A lot of music I just randomly hear, yes, though sometimes I suddenly figure out a tune when I'm messing about on the piano
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
I rarely write down compositions, i prefer just to compose in my head as ideas come quicker. I always use piano for this. But when the piece is more or less done, I'll sit down and write it up if I can be bothered.
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
Nope, I'm terrible!
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
I always have a general idea of the structure of the piece, and more or less know what the passage will go like, and just need to figure out specifics. Sometimes I have ideas for different passages of the piece and need to link them together.
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
Sometimes, but not really. I'm very much a 'sit down at instrument' person
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
Yes definitely! Though it always sounds better when actually played of course
I hate questionnaires , but let's get started...
*Do you apply just one method, do you have one or several favourite methods to compose, or does every work come about in a different way?
I have about two methods.
For my piano works, I definitely need a keyboard, because I can't just think of music with the desired pianistic qualities. All my piano pieces originate as consolidated improvisations.
For other settings, I often use the piano too, but then sometimes I prefer to sit on my desk, take a blank music sheet and start thinking. This is more difficult, but more free, and when it's going well, it can be particularly enjoyable.
My music style tends to be different in both methods, because when improvising, my hands are showing me the way.
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
No. I'm a slow writer and the music that I sometimes hear in my head just passes by, never to come back...
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
See above. I often get the best ideas when I'm outside biking or driving the car. The moving scene is particularly inspiring to me. I often turn off my car radio because I like more what's playing in my head.
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
I've been trying random cumulating notes in my head, but usually I'm not right on the spot about the combined effect of dissonances. Though, by now there aren't many chords left that I haven't heard yet.
I can think of orchestral sounds, but the more complicated, the less clearly I hear it. Wouldn't be able to turn it into a score.
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
Every couple of bars, because... (see next)
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
Nope !
*When composing for large settings, do you instantly construct a complete orchestral score, just progressing in time, or do you first work out some melodic lines and essential harmonic elements, before filling out the rest?
Not really experienced. I may try both... I think I'd prefer to do it the former way, but I would be compelled to the latter, because of my bad memory.
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
Just a flute or harp tune, I can hear like real, but the more sophisticated it gets, the more impressionistic it wil sound in my head.
, but let's get started...*Do you apply just one method, do you have one or several favourite methods to compose, or does every work come about in a different way?
I have about two methods.
For my piano works, I definitely need a keyboard, because I can't just think of music with the desired pianistic qualities. All my piano pieces originate as consolidated improvisations.
For other settings, I often use the piano too, but then sometimes I prefer to sit on my desk, take a blank music sheet and start thinking. This is more difficult, but more free, and when it's going well, it can be particularly enjoyable.
My music style tends to be different in both methods, because when improvising, my hands are showing me the way.
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
No. I'm a slow writer and the music that I sometimes hear in my head just passes by, never to come back...
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
See above. I often get the best ideas when I'm outside biking or driving the car. The moving scene is particularly inspiring to me. I often turn off my car radio because I like more what's playing in my head.
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
I've been trying random cumulating notes in my head, but usually I'm not right on the spot about the combined effect of dissonances. Though, by now there aren't many chords left that I haven't heard yet.
I can think of orchestral sounds, but the more complicated, the less clearly I hear it. Wouldn't be able to turn it into a score.
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
Every couple of bars, because... (see next)
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
Nope !
*When composing for large settings, do you instantly construct a complete orchestral score, just progressing in time, or do you first work out some melodic lines and essential harmonic elements, before filling out the rest?
Not really experienced. I may try both... I think I'd prefer to do it the former way, but I would be compelled to the latter, because of my bad memory.
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
Just a flute or harp tune, I can hear like real, but the more sophisticated it gets, the more impressionistic it wil sound in my head.
I was persuaded by earlier comments to try a freebie music sequencer attached to a magazine this month. It came with a few samples - alas not enough to make a real go but they were adequate to it try out. I've used samples before (E-mu) but not with sequencing software.
So here's what happened for the first work.
*Do you apply just one method, do you have one or several favourite methods to compose, or does every work come about in a different way?
I use whatever method the project needs. In this case it was small so I free-composed it. I was forced to work within the limitations of the software - There's probably a lot more to learn but one has to start somewhere.
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
In this one, yes. Very few usable instrument sounds came in the package and they suggested what the work would be. The sequencer is the piano-roll type so traditional notation isn't available.
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
Interactive - I wrote a section, tried it through earphones, wondered what should happen next. As a try-out, musical development was not an issue but mental effort was needed wrestling with the software.
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
That's what happened here (but the harmonies are obvious).
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
I worked out one instrumental part for a section of between 2 and 10 bars, harmonised it, then went on.
I had a vague idea of the whole thing which would be limited to about 2 mins. It turned out 1m 30s, so nothing much to ponder on. It was written mostly during train journeys when I could get a seat!
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
Reasonably. I'd hear a section which I then have to draw on the sequencer.
*When composing for large settings, do you instantly construct a complete orchestral score, just progressing in time, or do you first work out some melodic lines and essential harmonic elements, before filling out the rest?
If I used this for something large, I'd do it in sections and subsections as I would anyway. I never know exactly where it's going when I start - often the bin - so I have to reveiw as things progress.
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
Okay. I can hear the themes and harmonies I want and just write them out.
WS
So here's what happened for the first work.
*Do you apply just one method, do you have one or several favourite methods to compose, or does every work come about in a different way?
I use whatever method the project needs. In this case it was small so I free-composed it. I was forced to work within the limitations of the software - There's probably a lot more to learn but one has to start somewhere.
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
In this one, yes. Very few usable instrument sounds came in the package and they suggested what the work would be. The sequencer is the piano-roll type so traditional notation isn't available.
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
Interactive - I wrote a section, tried it through earphones, wondered what should happen next. As a try-out, musical development was not an issue but mental effort was needed wrestling with the software.
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
That's what happened here (but the harmonies are obvious).
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
I worked out one instrumental part for a section of between 2 and 10 bars, harmonised it, then went on.
I had a vague idea of the whole thing which would be limited to about 2 mins. It turned out 1m 30s, so nothing much to ponder on. It was written mostly during train journeys when I could get a seat!
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
Reasonably. I'd hear a section which I then have to draw on the sequencer.
*When composing for large settings, do you instantly construct a complete orchestral score, just progressing in time, or do you first work out some melodic lines and essential harmonic elements, before filling out the rest?
If I used this for something large, I'd do it in sections and subsections as I would anyway. I never know exactly where it's going when I start - often the bin - so I have to reveiw as things progress.
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
Okay. I can hear the themes and harmonies I want and just write them out.
WS
ws, are you talking about 'cm-studio' on 'computer music'?
it's probly as good as any place to start. if you can work with it, other packages will be easier. unless i got it wrong, it doesn't come with any kind of sample management.
have you composed something? i'm interested!
for others, it's a full version of cm-studio, easy to start up in, a taster but with limitations. it has a few vst instruments but you can import more as wavs. it takes up about 1gb for the programs, free samples and space for a few songs. worth a go - its free beyond the 6 pounds for the magazine.
edit - if you need beats try the samples on the april issue!
it's probly as good as any place to start. if you can work with it, other packages will be easier. unless i got it wrong, it doesn't come with any kind of sample management.
have you composed something? i'm interested!
for others, it's a full version of cm-studio, easy to start up in, a taster but with limitations. it has a few vst instruments but you can import more as wavs. it takes up about 1gb for the programs, free samples and space for a few songs. worth a go - its free beyond the 6 pounds for the magazine.
edit - if you need beats try the samples on the april issue!
I must admit that the "Muzys" software is extraordinary. It came with a demo, examination of which was more enlightening when it came to 'practicals' than the tutorial material.
Considering sequencers like Sibelius come at £500, Muzys is quite something for the price of the magazine. Writing 'piano-roll' is awkward at first but it's intuitive and one isn't forced into time signatures. It allows automated control of just about everything if you want it - tempo (rubato) volume (faders), pitch bending and all the rest, and recording ones own tracks into a composition (they can be edited in a "wave-lab" thing).
I threw something together in about four hours from scratch but in spare moments since, discovered that it's pretty powerful.
So far as music goes it's no substitute for real thing but as other compositions on the recordings forum show, a reasonable result is possible. Routing/patches: I'm still happier with actual boxes (plug-ins, mixer desk and recorder) where you can see what you've connected to what. This virual world is pretty fiddly. Composition: again, happier with a scruffy percilled short-score at the first stage.
Then again, having it all on a laptop means I can take it on my travels.
If nothing else it's another possibility.
WS
Considering sequencers like Sibelius come at £500, Muzys is quite something for the price of the magazine. Writing 'piano-roll' is awkward at first but it's intuitive and one isn't forced into time signatures. It allows automated control of just about everything if you want it - tempo (rubato) volume (faders), pitch bending and all the rest, and recording ones own tracks into a composition (they can be edited in a "wave-lab" thing).
I threw something together in about four hours from scratch but in spare moments since, discovered that it's pretty powerful.
So far as music goes it's no substitute for real thing but as other compositions on the recordings forum show, a reasonable result is possible. Routing/patches: I'm still happier with actual boxes (plug-ins, mixer desk and recorder) where you can see what you've connected to what. This virual world is pretty fiddly. Composition: again, happier with a scruffy percilled short-score at the first stage.
Then again, having it all on a laptop means I can take it on my travels.
If nothing else it's another possibility.
WS
*Do you apply just one method, do you have one or several favourite methods to compose, or does every work come about in a different way?
Sometimes I listen to something and really want to recreate it but in my own way- I hear a chord and love it and a whole pice of music can grow out of it. Other days I'm just plonking about on the piano and realise I'm playing something that I could build on, which I then hear a passage for in my head.
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
Well I doubt its from heaven! Well I hear a passage in my head, but never more than a few bars at a time.
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
I hear it in my head and write it straight into Sibelius.
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
Yep. I love writing for strange ensembles and I always know what instruments sound like with each other. At the moment I'm writing a minituare (however you spell it) for violin, oboe, cello and double bass. Absolutely gorgeous combination!
Jen
xXx
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
I hear a few bars and immediately write it down. It can be ages before I think of how to continue it.
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
No! If i dont write it down immediately, its gone. Unless I'm building from a chord, then I can sometimes get it back.
*When composing for large settings, do you instantly construct a complete orchestral score, just progressing in time, or do you first work out some melodic lines and essential harmonic elements, before filling out the rest?
The complete orchestral score, or whatever I'm writing for.
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
Yes, very clearly. Although at the moment I've been listening to Debussy and whenever I hear anything its quite foggy and implied- sometimes its just a certain sound. Like an oboe and violin playing together *lovely!*
Sometimes I listen to something and really want to recreate it but in my own way- I hear a chord and love it and a whole pice of music can grow out of it. Other days I'm just plonking about on the piano and realise I'm playing something that I could build on, which I then hear a passage for in my head.
*Are you just writing down the music that you "hear in your head", as if it came right away from heaven ?
Well I doubt its from heaven! Well I hear a passage in my head, but never more than a few bars at a time.
*Is your actual composing a purely mental business, without any help of instruments? Do you do it (completely or partly) at the writing-desk, at the piano (or other instrument) or walking/biking/driving...?
I hear it in my head and write it straight into Sibelius.
*Can you construct in your head any chords or orchestral sounds that you never heard in real before?
Yep. I love writing for strange ensembles and I always know what instruments sound like with each other. At the moment I'm writing a minituare (however you spell it) for violin, oboe, cello and double bass. Absolutely gorgeous combination!
Jen
xXx
*Do you first think of a whole passage / movement / work before writing it down, or do you note every single bar or couple of bars before thinking of how it has to continue?
I hear a few bars and immediately write it down. It can be ages before I think of how to continue it.
*Do you appeal to a strong aural memory for your composing?
No! If i dont write it down immediately, its gone. Unless I'm building from a chord, then I can sometimes get it back.
*When composing for large settings, do you instantly construct a complete orchestral score, just progressing in time, or do you first work out some melodic lines and essential harmonic elements, before filling out the rest?
The complete orchestral score, or whatever I'm writing for.
*How clearly do you hear music in your head? Is it just like real?
Yes, very clearly. Although at the moment I've been listening to Debussy and whenever I hear anything its quite foggy and implied- sometimes its just a certain sound. Like an oboe and violin playing together *lovely!*
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