Has anyone any good techniques for keeping the larynx relaxed and low. I've suspected mine's been zooming up at the smallest provocation and actually tried keeping my fingertips on it today to see, and it does... I don't even have to go that high

I have tried visualising things going downward, tried relaxing everything as much as I can... doesn't seem to help.

I had suspect this was a problem as the high notes just didn't feel right... but I haven't a clue what to do about it. Any ideas anyone?

Are you a soprano or a mezzo? Normally I don't even think about it. The placement is important, but you shouldn't think about lowering your larynx. I don't think people should get hung up about this. If the sound is right, leave well alone. Your teacher should help you to think down into your body for notes of B flat and below. Above B flat should be in the hum position, depending on where the phrse is going.

Ann

Well I can feel that my throat isn't right when I sing like that, and if I do it too long it hurts it, which can't be right?

I won't be able to have a lesson for a couple of weeks...

The jury is out on whether I am a sop or a mezzo - range wise I'm a mezzo basically but I don't know if that's my voice type. I haven't been having lessons very long at all.

Excuse me for being thick - *which* Bb?

And what is the hum position?

I had always read/understood that the larynx riding too high could cause damage which was the main reason I am worried. I know that I sound far nicer with a relaxed throat but can't always find the sweetspot.

Sorry - should have said - B flat above middle C. The hum position is on the bridge of your nose. Top notes are easier if you float them upwards from here. Floating is an essential technique for sopranos, but mezzos think lower. That's why I asked. If you haven't had many lessons, you probably don't know your voice type yet. Just follow your teacher's advice by getting good breath support and voice placement, and your voice will develop into the range it wants to. Sometimes it is many months before it is clear where the voice wants to go. Be patient about finding the sweet spot. It takes a long time to train a voice - Rome wasn't built in a day...
I've always found that talking too specifically about the physiology of the voice makes people think about things they wouldn't normally think about. (For example larynx position.) Singing should be relaxed and natural. Of course, if there's a problem then you have to address it, but it's not something I've ever mentioned to any of my students.

Ann

Sarah, don't worry about your larynx "riding too high".

As long as you are not actually forcing it up beyond where it naturally wants to go you won't damage it. Damage happens when you try to make your internal workings do things rather than letting them operate. That applies to whatever bit you are pulling/pushing/raising/lowering......

Well put!

Ann

I agree with that - it just makes things overcomplicated. Unless your very scientifically minded, some of these concepts are quite difficult to understand. They usually cause people, as you say, to think about things too much. Then this leads to tension and fustration. I think that singing is long learning process - perhaps moreso than other instruments. I've got one 15 year old girl who has been learning for about 2 and half years. She's only just beginning to 'discover' her voice. It was good in the beginning, but she's probably come on more in the last term than for the whole of the rest of the time out together. I think patience is vital, and just letting things happen naturally and in their own time. It's worth spending time on the basics because these are the foundations of the future. I always wanted to push the range of my voice but in the end I thought to myself, that actually I don't need to do this, and true enough, working on the technique in the comfortable singing range, has over time begun to push the overall range in both directions.

David

Knowing the science/ physiology bit is one thing, trying to achieve the right effect is another all together.

Sarah, have you tried building yawning or sighing into your warm up routine. Try singing with a "yawny" feeling.

Otherwise instead of getting hung up on your larynx, as the muscles between the layrnx area and soft palate are linked, try visualising a big dome in the roof of your mouth.

Your mid range should feel as if it is coming from the bridge of your nose ( as Ann C), and as you go down try to get a feeling of broadening onto the sound.

Keep you neck very free. Half-head circles and shoulder rolls to illimate tension in the area are brilliant.

The most important thing is not getting hung up on it. If you relax as you sing it's more likely to happen than if you keep tensing up becasue you think you're doing it wrong.

I've been struggling with this low larynx, yawny feeling too. My teacher has been teaching me a technique known as "sobbing", and it came up in the recent voice workshop I did with my choir. As I understand it, I should start with a yawny feeling, then sigh out the outbreath, then let the note flow out on that. And at the same time be careful to keep my soft palate as high as poss, and not let my tongue go back.

When I try to do this, I just end up tying knots in my throat. Yet I really want to be able to do it, because when it goes ok it makes my sound so much better.

This singing is frustrating business isn't it.

Amber
x

Thanks for all the help guys, I feel somewhat reassured!

Amber: isn't it just? Tying knots in your throat sounds painful...

Going to have another practice later, today I'll set an alarm so I don't knakcer my throat by singing for too long like I did yesterday

We do a similar thing which is the replicating what you would do to steam up a window. Hold out your hand in front of your mouth, then sigh out as if it were a window you were going to steam up. When you've done this, breathe in and then sing. I wouldn't say this exercise works for everyone though.

David

The tutting and sighing thing was really helpful, though I couldn't describe it if you paid me today

(severe brain malfunction aujourd'hui! )


You know what drives me round the bend and up the wall? Not being able to replicate something. Usually on the flute or violin once I have done something once (created a good tone, hit such and such a note correctly, etc...) I know I can get back there - it's like I've marked the path out, and it's much easier to get there next time.

Doesn't seem to happen nearly as much when it comes to singing - I can get a lovely clear sound up to a surprising note in warm up, and then struggle much lower down whilst singing, I can surprise myself (like I did at Egham) by singing loudly and clearly, and then the next day sound thin and weedy... I can sing a whole song with actual support (! ) and then not be able to sing a phrase at all. Completely infuriating! LOL! And I hate being beaten... so I guess I just have to keep going!

If yawning does not work try sighing.

Maybe you should concentrate on raising the roof of your mouth as if you have a whole orange in there.

And seriously try the neck exercises especially as you have ME.

I'll experiment! Thanks for the tips, folks

Lowering the larynx is one of the hardest things to do when singing, and it takes time to fix like anything else. Don't think about "pushing" it down...if you try it you'll most likely feel something bulge out at the bottom of your jaw, which is the root of your tongue and which is pushing the larynx down unnaturally...it can eventually block off the sound completely.

In my (admittedly somewhat limited) experience, the larynx tends to rise because of inadequate support elsewhere in the body (I'm still working on it myself, but already it's SO much better). If something else is out of whack, the vocal tract shortens and makes it easier to hit high notes with the amount of support you've managed to achieve. It's possible to sing well with a somewhat lifted larynx, but a) you will sound even better once it's lowered and b ) if the lifting's excessive, it will hurt, as you've described here. Where the larynx naturally wants to go when you sing is at first often connected to habit rather than to nature itself, and while it's pointless to try and force it the other way as a quick-fix, you do have to sort of recalibrate things to remind it what nature intended it to do.

According to my singing teacher it's also often connected to tension in the jaw and the back of the neck - be aware of this and try to relax these muscles when you're singing. When you have another lesson, ask your teacher what muscular tension you need to work on, and maybe think about starting a little yoga or Alexander technique.

You say you've only been having lessons for a couple of weeks, which makes this lifting completely normal - time and good technique will sort it out. It'll lower gradually until eventually you're not aware of it at all.

Sarah,

When you're singing, put your hands gently under your jaw and check that none of the muscles there is tense - if there is any tension, then you need to relax it. If you can relax the swallowing muscles, your larynx should sit just right. You don't want a low larynx, and you don't want a high one - you just need to let it be natural and getting your 'underjaw' muscles to relax is the first step.

Try lip trilling with a slight yawn on a two octave arpeggio going up in root position and coming down with the dominant seventh (does that make sense?... I mean (ascending) c, e, g, c, e, g, (descending) f, d, b,g, f, d, c) then gradually take it up or down by semitones, always maintaining a relaxed, slightly cavernous, yawny feeling and checking the muscles. If you do this daily for about 15 minutes at the start of your practise session, you should free your larynx from external hinderance and let it lie naturally.

Hope it helps!

Allan

I understood about the arpeg/dom7th, but I didn't understand what you mean by lip trilling....

Thanks for the ideas, guys I guess I need to work on relaxation...

Ah! Lip trilling is singing at pitch whilst making a raspberry noise with your mouth - keep it nice and light and bubbly and using your two forefingers, lift up the cheeks slightly to keep everything relaxed.

Allan

When I try to sing above the stave my throat hurts and everything becomes very "tight" and uncomfortable. Is that due to raising the larynx?

It could be one of several things - tension in the jaw, a closed throat, inadequate support, bad posture, bad positioning of the voice - difficult to tell without seeing you in action! What does your teacher say?

Ann

PS Did you get my message?

As Ann says it could be due to a number of factors, if your throat is closing up, muscular tension is one of the most likely causes. But this is very difficult to diagnose over the internet. One of the reasons I often demonstrate things on the voice is so I can examine my pupils posture from all angles. One of the most common postural faults is craning your neck forward. Have you checked your not doing this in a mirror?

Have you made contact with Ann re a consultation lesson?

A suggestion that might help whilst your considering other approaches, try doing all of your exercises to an oo sound as this one lowers the layrnx the most. I know that some classical singers only train on this vowel sound and no others.

It is not oo that singers then to use but the phoneme y, (as in tu in french). y, is a particularly bright sounnd, but unlike i:, it is sung with the lips forwards, and thus avoids tension in the mouth. Its prima advantage is that it brings the sound forward, and thus also helps with placing.

To produce the sound. imagine you are singing i: through a drinking straw!

I do a lot of exercises on that sound to warm up, however it is important, once the placing is sorted out to be able so sing on all vowels.