This is a bit of a random thread but I was just wondering what people thought:

Now that I've done grade 8 my parents really think its time that I gave up 'taking music seriously' and concentrated more on GCSEs. They don't know that Dip exists and seeing as I don't intend to do it I can't really be bothered to tell them that grade 8 isn't the 'end of the road' and that theres still a lot of improvement that can be made.

I'm not thinking of music as a career at all, medicine actually...so I know that I'm going to have to work really hard for the next few years just to get INTO Uni and then even harder if I'm doing med. My parents have gotten it into their heads that I've got to get into Oxbridge, and that anything less than that is '####'

Its not that I don't work hard or anything, but I really do. My parents understand that I'm trying my best right now but think that I could do even 'better' if I had less 'distractions' out of school. I gave up badminton earlier this year as training took up all saturday morning, though that was mainly because the fees went up and it got boring. Then after parents evening in march they made me give up my Chinese school thing which usually takes up half of Sunday. I'm not bothered about that very much as seeing as I;ve already done my GCSE the only reason I was there was to see friends. (They have taught us the same book two years in a row for the benefit of the 'new students')

So basically parents think that music is a distraction as I have lessons on a Saturday afternoon and they think I should be using the time to 'do my maths homework' or 'read a textbook'.
At first they just wanted me to atop my lessons during exam time, something which I would do anyway...but I know that if I stop I WONT be going back.

So far I think I MIGHT have persuaded them to let me carry on until I get my results..which is a about 2 more lessons but after that I think its 'byebye' *sniff*

Basically what I'm worried about is if I'll still 'improve' without a teacher. I know that people do self teach and that its possible, as I'm self teaching myself guitar, but I still don't think that theres any way I'll be able to hear my own mistakes and stuff. My dad's reply when I explained was 'why would you want to improve anyway'? But I'm basically just scared that I'll lose my musical ability or over time just get worse and worse....

hmm well rant over...I'm If just being a bit picky, which I'm starting to think I am, somebody please just say. Though Its been good to uncork this particular 'bottle' of anxiety!.

It sounds like it did you good just to write all that down! I'm in Year 11 now and also probably aiming for Oxbridge not to do Medicine though, I'm not a science person!! But I would say, it's important to keep some time free just to do whatever you feel like, otherwise you'll go mad. Speaking from experience I would say that inevitably you don't do as well when you give up lessons simply because you don't have anything in particular to work towards. But if you can keep yourself motivated you should be OK. I would say to your parents if you want to carry on your lessons that it's important for you to have your own hobbies and free time - and also the universities like it if you seem like a human being and not a complete nerd!!

What a difficult one.

I stopped taking grades at 17, in order to concentrate on A levels, because I also wanted to do medicine, but carried on with lessons, and they were really a life-saver, because all the bookwork alone would have made my brain silt up, I'm sure of it. I do think most people need to have at least one outside interest in this situation, and when I applied for medical school (admittedly a dreadfully long time ago now), we had to fill in a big box of all our other activities, to prove that we were balanced individuals. There are very few purely academic doctors out there - and all have to deal with real people (!) during their training, which means that they don't only need book skills to get on.
Your folks will be concerned that you put in the groundwork to get there in the first place, and there lies the problem. If you manage the bookish bit easily, then you should be able to have a number of hobbies too, if you want to, but as you know, medicine is rather competetive, so keep a balance.
Oxbridge does carry a lot of kudos, certainly, and has the advantage of a collegiate system, but other universities are just as good for medicine. I wish you the very best for your ambitions, and that you manage to keep the music going somehow- I resumed lessons only three years ago, and am getting more and more involved in music-making, and it's great.

Sounds like your parents are in the variety who think playing the piano is all about exams and that everything revolves around grade exams, which of course is not true. Music goes a long way beyond taking exams. It is a source of tremendous pleasure, relaxation, sanity. By all means have a break from lessons if you think this necessary while exams are on, but please don't be persuaded doing grade 8 is 'the end of the road' (or diplomas for that matter). Good luck with your GCSEs.

Thanks I know its true that you can't be completely 'academic' for everything but in the end it IS the grades that get you there in the first place before they look at what else you do. Weird thing is, as my parents grew up in China where kids DONT have extracurricular activities and its almost unheard of, and grades are ALL that matters, they still find it hard to get used to the difference in the UK. My mum stils finds it hard to believe that next year I need a more 'long term' form of volunteering/work experience as she 'doesnt see the point'.

oooh I keep forgettting the one point I was trying to make... Not mentioned it yet, but do you think that having 'irregular' lessons would motivate me a bit or be pointless? I'm think once every month or 3 weeks or something.

Is Oxbridge really the best place for medicine? I know I went to Cambridge to read music but part of my decision was based on reading the detailed information on degree courses around the country and the Camridge one appealed most to me. If I'd been interested in different aspects of music, I would have chosen a different university. I know Oxbridge has the reputation, but there are other superb universities that have different subject strengths too.
It all depends how disciplined you are as to whether a lesson once every 3 weeks would actually keep you motivated to keep up regular practice inbetween, or whether the moment one lesson was over you'd think "oh well I can relax- 3 weeks till the next one!" Not that I think you would, but Steve Hopwood has found that to be his experience whenever he's tried teaching pupils once a fortnight......
Definitely keep up the music in any case, as I've heard they look favourably on applicants who can show on their CVs or whatever that they have interests, etc. and quite often particularly musical ones too, I seem to remember someone once telling me.......

I'm not thinking of music as a career at all, medicine actually...so I know that I'm going to have to work really hard for the next few years just to get INTO Uni and then even harder if I'm doing med. My parents have gotten it into their heads that I've got to get into Oxbridge, and that anything less than that is '####'

Uhhhhh I hate GCSEs...luckily I managed to explain to my parents about how I hate work, and they agreed that as long as I get all A*s and 1 A, I can do as little work as I want Why not tell your parents about how it's bad to study for more than 30 minutes intensly, because concentration will start to go very quickly, and you end up not taking anything in - however a change in activity can remedy this.
Like you, I am a possible future Oxbridge candidate (Politics) if I can't guarentee myself a good musical career, and I realise like you do that you've got to be achieving amazing things to get in. I suppose if you are really sure music wont be your career then you SHOULD focus on academia. On the other hand - you're 16. You are allowed to have fun. If fun=music, do it. There's time for being boring and academic when you're 30 or whatever, but you only get to do what you want once.
I'm sure you will continue to improve without a teacher, maybe not as much or as quickly as with one. Maybe a remedy to this would be the odd lesson, say once a month, so you can continue to improve and get advice, but your parents can't say it takes up too much time.

This must be so difficult for you if you don't want to stop lessons.
I know how I felt when my teacher suggested I might want a break after my grade 8 to think about what to do next.
As others have said, it is good to have another interest outside of school work.
I have heard that some universtities at least would favour applicants who didn't give up all outside interests because of exams. It shows that you are able to manage your time well.
As to the question of less frquent lessons, you know yourself best on this... would you practice steadily between lessons with this sort of arrangement? (My teacher asked last week whether I wanted to stay with weekly lessons or have one every fortnight.. I'm sticking with weeekly for now at least).
The decisions are easier for me as I am an adult and what you do now is more likely to be decided by your parents.
I hope that things work out.

Hi can I reply as a teacher and parent? My son is in the middle of Year 12 and also hoping for Oxbridge although probably Maths or Engineering. He took his grade 8 violin and piano diploma a couple of years ago. After the grade 8 violin I was VERY keen for him to keep it going as I think that is where the fun bit starts - all that lovely music out there to learn and play. However because of pressure of work - he also has a Saturday job - we decided on one lesson a month. This works brilliantly - they cover lots of lovely material and without the structure of exams have been able to really explore lots of things. He seems fairly motivated to practice, not as much as before, but I'm not worried I'm just pleased he is still playing and learning. I would recommend trying less regular lessons. Its up to you to put in the practice - just like University - you need to be able to motivate yourself for the sake of learning NOT for the sake of exams. Hope you can convince your parents...

I have lessons once a fortnight and that is fine for me! Why not explain to your parents how important music is for you to keep you balanced. If anyone does too much of one thing they can become unbalanced. Tell them that if they made you give it up you'd be more grumpy, moody, etc. not deliberately, but just because you feel the need to progress in that field too and would be unhappy if you weren't!

On a CV can you only put stuff that you're having lessons for etc...or would I still be able to say 'I enjoy music bla bla bla'


Just had minor 'discussion' with parents...this Saturday will probably be my last piano lesson , as I said I wanted to discuss my exam with my parents etc....I think I might quit after that just for GCSEs and then hopefully, seeing how things go, and providing my dad is still in a good mood with me this autumn, I might have monthly lessons.
I would say that motivation is one of my better qualities so I do get fed up sometimes...Like Margaret said, I'm also really looking forward to learning 'all that lovely music out there'!

What didn't help is that one of my dads friends came round last night, who he hasnt seen for ages, and he's trained as a scientist and is a lecturer at a uni somewhere ( ) but works with loads of medics...so basically I ended up on the recieving end of a 20 min lecture on how 'you'll be studying for over 10 years and after that if you get lucky you'll have a low paying job and then after THAT if you're lucky you might get promoted'...which is all probably true but didn't help my parents who still aren't convinced that they actually want me to do Med...though its 'if you are, than make youre youre the best'!!



Boo: Half the time I'm like that anyway so they probably wouldnt notice the difference!!

Do you want to study medicine though? What do you want to do with your life?

Whatever you want to do, if you want to go to a great uni, you will be expected to get 3 As for medicine quite often, and since so many people do that, if you can show that you can cope with music on the side it looks so much better. I know someone who got 10 A*s at GCSE and 4 As at A level and couldn't get into her top 3 choices of uni because they wanted more "well-rounded" candidates! Try telling your parents that

Medicine's what I've wanted to do for ages... I love sciences/maths (and also ethics etc) and really want to do something really worthwhile with my life my halping people.
My parents initially wanted me to do something businessy as you earn quite a lot if you're lucky and its mostly a 9-5 job...though I think if I did I;d die of boredom... *stifles yawn*

I think you should maybe persuade your parents to have fortnightly lessons, then it is a compromise

Wow, this forum has a lot of potential Oxbridge students

Reading through, I can relate to a lot of the things you've said. It almost feels like you stop and think suddenly, "What do I do now?". And you need to consider why you do music: is it for enjoyment, the satisfaction of achieving something or just getting the qualifications (or a mix of them)? But obviously, if your parents fund the lessons, then you will have to listen to their opinions (I've been extremely lucky, in that my parents have always left me free to do what I want).

Echoing what others have said, medicine is an extremely competitive course to get onto, and sometimes good grades aren't necessarily enough. People in my year who want to end up doing medicine are doing work experience at hospitals, joining societies, anything just to give them the edge. And music shows you have a range of skills, not just in the academic subjects.

My one thought, as I read through, was that if you could show your parents you were working towards something they may still encourage lessons. And so, to that end, you may want to try the Theory exams. I dunno, you may be one of those people who hates theory and so this is a terrible idea. But if you didn't mind it, you could aim for lessons which were maybe half theory, half practical - and still show that you were working towards a qualification of some sort. Just an idea...

If you really hate theory, then what about practical musicianship? That may sound even worse, of course... but it's just a thought!

Oh no, what an awful position to be in! If you're looking for another piano qualification, how about jazz piano? Have you talked to your teacher about the situation? She might have some useful suggestions.

I'm also in a similar situation. I want to go to Oxbridge to study languages (although my school/parents would prefer me to do history, but that's another story.....) but I do want to do Music A-level. I know that I'll have to work hard at it but I could do well and if I'm not doing well/ not enjoying it, I'll drop it (I'm planning on taking 5 AS-levels). I have music service lessons on viola but I will have to change teacher when I go to college to my old violin teacher, who I don't particularly get on with - his lessons weren't very interesting and he made me feel stupid! Also, 20 minute lessons aren't long enough anymore and trying to fit them into my college timetable will be a nightmare! My mum sympathises but is worried about the cost of private tuition whilst my dad doesn't really see what's wrong with the teacher at college. It's stressing me out as we got a form to fill in about it today and I don't want to discuss it with them as we'll end up arguing (I'm fairly headstrong and so is my dad!). I really need to have good lessons to get a good grade in AS performance.

I really hope that things improve. *hugs* PM me if you want to talk.

Medicine is hard work, but very sociable. The hours are gradually getting better, and, yes, it takes five years for the basic qualification, six if you do an extra intercalated degree, one year to get full registration, then a minimum of three to five years for a postgraduate qualification, but docs earn during these latter years. You must have the people thing to do the job well - the gold medallist from a year or two before mine was so academic that he'd omitted to pick up some basic practical skills, and nearly didn't get his full registration...Music somehow seems a natural partner to medicine - one person from my year is now a professional musician, and keeps medicine as a hobby! I think the association exists because both occupations need a certain amount of dedication, persistence, ability to absorb material which seems boring, and team-work, as well as tolerance of odd hours of work.
On the one lesson a month thing - depends on your character. I find I'm chafing at the bit if I haven't had a lesson for three weeks, because I'm still on a pretty steep learning curve and don't trust my judgement. Weekly would simply not be manageable - too many commitments, so the fortnight is good for me.

I believe Southampton is a very good place for Medicine.

It makes me so sad when I hear that parents can be this pushy and narrow-minded. I have known people who have gone to study something their heart was not in but which their parents wanted them to do and for it to cause all sorts of unhappiness. Parents who think that a qualification from any institution other than Oxford or Cambridge is worthless clearly know nothing about Higher Education.

You get to my age and start wishing you had worked a bit less hard at school/college and spent more time doing things that really mattered to you, like music, friends etc. Life is to be enjoyed. Do whatever you think will make you happiest. And if that changes, that's fine, just go with it.

Don't give up lessons. Square up to your parents like an adult, and calmy and rationally state your case. Music and Medecine are completely compatible. Ask your parents what they want you to be, happy or just nose to the grindstone aiming for med school. BTW Cambridge does have a decent med school and a first rate teaching hospital.

I'm sure your parents want the best for you. Unfortunately there is no hand book called "How to be the perfect parent". There are times we all get it wrong. TEll your parent how important this is they might even listen

It is true that music and medicine mix. Certainly in my experience, many people in university orchestras, community bands etc. are (student) medics. Keep enjoying music.

Thanks everyone. I certainly WILL keep enjoying music!
Talking to my parents about this right now probably isnt the best idea, as everytime I do I end up in tears so they get the upperhand Besides, there are 2 months to go until exams so I might us the time to revise and get myself sorted.
After I come back from hols I think I definitely WILL start a bit of 'pestering' though!
I think one of the main reasons they are getting like this is because of people we know: One girl did piano grades 4, 6 and 8. She passed 8 with distinction and quit straight away, worked her #### off, had (from what I hear) no life and got into Cambridge Medicine with a scholarship. I think she got loads of top 5 in country straight A*s GCSE and As at A level
Another one was doing loads of work exp last year in L6 and wanted to do med, but did so much extracurricular (apparently) that her exam grades werent up to scratch and shes having to repeat L6 now.

QUOTE

Square up to your parents like an adult, and calmy and rationally state your case.

Easier said than done...but I'll give it a go!

It sounds as if you are keen to go into medicine - make sure it is not purely because of parental pressure. My parents were keen for me to go into medicine for most of my teenage years but I made the decision for myself when the time came.

If you are indeed keen, I'd suggest you get a flavour of what it is like working as a doctor. Get some work experience, work as a health care assistant etc. Medicine is not glamorous - it is full of hard work and when you work, be prepared for the fact that despite the heavy responsibility you will shoulder, you may not be treated terribly well. There may not be enough jobs to go around. Do you have an idea of what you'd like to specialise in? I know you said you'd be bored with a 9-5 job, but if you are in certain specialities, you'd yearn for a job like that!

Then, you should work on stuff that will help you get shortlisted for an interview into medical school. Obviously, look at the subjects you have to take (especially those that are compulsory) and the grades that you need to achieve. The work experience and anything that you've done will definitely help you. Music is another plus point - if you can progress further after your GCSEs, so much the better - persuade your parents then. Perhaps you could join a choir that raises funds for medical charities etc. Other plus points, playing badminton, speaking chinese (I presume)...

You should never give up playing the piano altogether - many of my friends have taken piano lessons up to Grade 8 level and then stopped completely. That is such a terrible waste of money, time and effort. It is a real shame because you can play that catchy pop song, that excellent movie soundtrack, or oldies your parents like (my parents love it when I play oldies and popular classical pieces).

Hope this helps!

As a current medic....my two-cents' worth...

I kept up music lessons through A levels because they gave me another focus, so I didn't go mad. I did however, have 'things to work for'. I wouldn't advise a diploma whilst trying to get into med school though, rather, use your time to explore music. A lesson once a month could be very useful in giving you the opportunity to teach yourself some more, and become a more "independent learner". Put that on your ucas form and eat it! You may also use your skill to entertain nursing home residents - you'll be amazed how many of them have pianos!! Med school will love you to show your volunteering-kind-and-generous side, while you might enjoy people listening to and gaining pleasure from your playing. Gives you a different angle to your playing as well, not just classical-exam stuff...

To get into med school, you appear to need four things:
1) Good grades. It is a hard course, no-one denies that. It is also competetive, so you have to be good.
2) Work experience. Can't stress this enough, as it demonstrates you have an enthusiasm as well as the dedication to take time out of your life and give to your career.
3) Extra-curricular activities. Read music/sport for most people. Shows you're not getting the grades by working all the live-long day, and the ability to balance work and life. Very important in future!
4) Good communication skills. A new one this (especially if some of our consultants are anything to go by!). Initially assessed by your UCAS form, then in interview.

To be honest I wouldn't look to Oxbridge for medicine (my opinion only, I'm sure they are lovely places!). The best places to go are the places with the best hospitals, or ones that specialise in things you are interested in yourself. For example, I can tell you Birmingham allows you to intercalate (do an extra BMedSci in a year) in ethics. They also do history of medicine, which is why I preferred there to other places. Look into what else they offer (socially, academically, musically....) as a medical degree is a medical degree, wherever it comes from, you'll still be a doctor. Birmingham, Nottingham, Manchester, Bristol and Guys in London are all very good, but also very popular because of the hospitals you learn in.

Medicine and music do seem to go hand in hand, so enjoy them both

Amazing just how many things music DOES match! My sister-in-law is a consultant, having studied medicine at Cambridge; she had Grade 8 organ under her belt before she went up.

CPPF, I'm really sorry to hear that your parents are trying to stop your lessons. Might be worth mentioning to them that i) you'll need something to help you relax; and ii) if you continue as an "independent learner" it'll look so much better on your UCAS form.

Another idea... are your parents likely to be open to negotiation?
Would it be possible to get them to agree to you continuing lessons as long as it doesn't bring down your grades at school?

Probably not...as even in I get 100% in everything they'd probably say 'there are better people out there etc'...

The independant learner thing sounds interesting...hmmm I'll try it though.

This is going to sound really rebellious, and it's a bit risky, but when I told my parent that I wanted to get a part-time job they were bit like "It will birng your grades down". But then I told them that if I work all the time without any breaks then I'll get ill and then my grades will really come down. It won them over. You need a break, and maybe having lessons every two weeks, or possibly having shorter lessons may win them over. Then you can still work and keep your parents happy, but keep yourself happy at the same time.

And anyway, universities don't always look for your grades.....There are two girls at my school who both applied to Oxford, both with the same subject. One girl was predicted higher grades than the other, but they took the girl with the lower predicted grades, presumably just because they preferred her as a person. Having high grades is great, but it's not the only thing that unoversities look for. And apparently they like students who play instruments because it shows outside interests and self discipline. I'd have another word with your parents.

Medicine is one of, if not the most competitive course that you could apply for, and grades alone are hardly enough to secure you a place. Plenty of people at my school with near perfect grades have got onslaughts of rejections. I think what SuzyMac listed is pretty accurate, at least according to hearsay & friends. I think that medicine admission tutors wants to see that you are able to manage your time well, so that they'd know you could cope with the workload of medicine. So, having music at such a high standard will give you a little more of an edge at the least. My father's a doctor, although he's into research now. He reckons that Oxbridge is not necessarily the best for medicine too, although it is still very very good. It's just not miles ahead of the other universities, as it is the case with some other courses.

Yes - they're going to get many many potential students applying with fabulous grades - anything that will make you stand out from that crowd is a good thing.

Try explaining to your parents that you've been warned good grades are not enough and musical activity will look really good on your UCAS form.

CPPF - one more thought has just occurred to me.
I know for a fact that there is one medical student in Glasgow who plays the piano for ballet classes for Scottish Ballet to earn some useful cash - medics have a particularly tough time financially for the last couple of years as they study for about 48 weeks a year (that's what it was in my day, anyway) - and your skill could well come in useful for you too. There are lots of dancing schools - I'm not just talking about the big ballet companies - and if they do RAD exams, they need competent pianists for the exams three times a year. Don't let your skills lapse! (If you do have to stop playing for a while, you would find it fairly straightforward to get going again, but better just to keep going somehow.)

Something that always troubles me when people are talking of giving up everything to get into Oxbridge is what will happen to them if they do eventually make it. Some people will work very hard to get their A grades at A level to get in there giving up everything else they do to make it; others will breeze through A-levels easily getting three As (I'm not getting into the debate here of whether A-levels are too easy or not simply stating that certainly many people exist that do find A levels to be quite easy). Some people from each of these groups will then go on to form the population at a good university. The work at a good university will be harder than that at A-level and if you have nothing left in reserve you may well fall behind. The work in the university will be pitched at a high level: i.e. to stretch those getting As at A-level, not to stretch the average A-level candidate (presumably getting a C or D grade). If you're already fully stretched to get an A then this work may be a stretch too far. People who have got their As at A-level with relatively little effort (and these are not such a rare breed as one may be initially lead to believe) have plenty of extra time to work that they can pull out if they desire: some will and will thrive; some won't and will suffer a drop in marks accordingly; and, as always, some won't but will also be able to do their degree with very little work.

Consequently if it's the case that one has to give up absolutely everything and do nothing but study in order to get into a good university, I would imagine that one is likely to struggle when one gets there as one has no reserved ability to work harder when things get harder (not to mention all the additional distractions that university life brings).

I'm not saying that one should never work hard to get through A-levels and achieve what one wants: certainly one should but within reason. Perhaps this doesn't apply to you because wherever you go you will have to get good grades to study medicine; but you have to consider what you're sacrificing to do that and if it potentially spells danger later on. If you have to give up everything to get your A-levels the chances are that it's the same for your degree: that's a lot of years of your life gone where you can't do anything to enjoy yourself.

I'm not trying to put you off here, not one bit, I'm trying to suggest that keeping your hobbies and working around those as well will give you a more realistic idea of what you can achieve without burning yourself out. I can't believe that anyone comes home from school, works all evening and all weekend and does nothing else to relax: there must be at least half an hour free in every day to do something, be it play the piano or just relax and have a break. Then again, I guess it would be good training for those doing medicine with the long hours of work required of junior doctors .

In summary, good luck , but don't work yourself into the ground, keep some things that you enjoy, as it'll only become harder to sustain later.

hmmm, sounds familiar - although some time ago for me and not exactly the same scenario.

Looking back, at the time 'A' levels were really important. Now, they are useless - nobody cares.

Looking back, my degree was really important. Now they are obsolete - it's work experience that matters.

Looking back, i wish i'd kept up with the piano.

Grade 8 (as i am currently finding out) is definately not the end of the road. It's the start of a long journey that you will never complete but should enjoy the travelling. I am just about starting to play pieces that i enjoy!

I would perhaps give up the lessons - because at your stage in your career, the exams do take priority. However, i would definately continue to play (if you enjoy doing so). It will help you relax and possibly negate any exam induced stress.

The dificulty may be finding a good piano to practice on when you leave home to go to Uni. But then again, you might find other persuits take your interest anyway!

do your parents know how important it is to have extra curricular activities as well? i'm not sure if anyone's already made this point (sorry i'm rushing because i have to go and do coursework!) but to get into uni you're going to need more than just the top grades, yet it seems that your parents are trying to get you to drop everything that would show this! grade 8 will look good on your CV, but you don't need to do more grades if you don't want to do the Dip (a little too much pressure i think!) if you had it on your CV saying that you played piano and had lessons or whatever then it shows you have interests outside your subject area which is what they like to hear.
sorry if anyone's already said this, but i think you should talk to your parents - not trying to scare you, but if you drop all your activities then you're gonna be just like the next straight-A student who walks along. i think music would be great to show that you stand apart, especially as it seems to highly regarded - getting to grade 8 is viewed as a massive acheivement!
hoxie
x

EDIT: ok, i think someone has already said it! sorry! so i'll just back up the point...

Amen to that.