I have been reading all the topics about the recorder with great interest and also a feeling of deep regret.

I started learning the descant recorder with a peri when I started primary school at the age of five and moved onto the treble when I was about seven (I can remember at the beginning it was a real stretch to cover the holes). I loved the treble recorder and because I was good at it, when I was about nine, the school asked if I wanted violin lessons (thinking about this as an adult it seems a weird kind of logic). I duly took up the violin and took grade one about eighteen months later. When I left primary school I carried on having violin lessons at the local music school but just as no one ever suggested that I might want to take a recorder exam (in fact I didn't even know there were any), nor did they suggest that I carry on with recorder lessons outside school.

At secondary school there was no peri for recorder lessons, although I belonged to various recorder groups over the years, and I discovered that at the back of the music store room there was a lovely wooden base recorder which I had on a long term loan for about four years until I left school. I also used to borrow recorder music from the local library to play, but of course this was not the same as having proper lessons.

I appreciated the violin because it meant that I could play in orchestras but I never felt the same affinity for it that I felt for the treble recorder. I would have loved the possibility to perfect my technique and wonder if I was just living in the wrong place or whether things really have changed over the last twenty years.

To be honest, I'm not sure that most of "out there" takes it seriously even yet...
In its heyday, when composers like Telemann, Vivaldi and Bach wrote music for it, it must have been well respected, as their music is challenging and delightful. Once the bigger sounds of pianoforte and metal strings, together with keyed woodwind and valved brass came in, the recorder got lost - and by the time ubiquitous vibrato (a relatively modern development which really only took off at the beginning of the twentieth century) came in, the recorder must have seemed totally pointless with its little sound, however pure that might be.
In the 1930s the recorder got its first revival as a school instrument - each fingering will produce a note which is more or less in tune, and it doesn't require much breath to get a sound, so is ideal for kids starting out. Since then, cheap mass production has made the recorder the instrument of torture for even the most doting of parents, who dutifully attend school concerts at which sixty mismatched recorders squeak out the wrong notes for "Three Blind Mice", or if feeling adventurous, the theme tune for "Star Wars".
I'll admit it, I giggled when the head at our secondary school announced with pride that one of our number had got grade 8 recorder. I'm still mortified. I now know, as I didn't then, that the recorder is a musical instrument - that it requires just as much dedication to play really well as any other, and when I finally got my grade 8 with distinction at the age of forty, I couldn't stop grinning for a week. I still get a reaction of disbelief from others - and am very sad that it is probably because they think it's not worth the effort, or that maybe you have to get to grade 8 recorder before you can start grade 1 on a "proper" instrument like flute, clarinet or oboe...
I've been so heartened by the fact that there are others who appreciate the recorder on these fora!

The recorder is not easy to play well!
I used to play in early music groups and recorder consorts when I was at school, but haven't played it seriously since I left school sadly (Leicester may start to put me right on that!). All those extra keys on clarinets, saxophones and the like are there to make your life easier, on the recorder you've just got holes, which makes some fingering combinations rather tricky.
A well played recorder is a joy to listen to, and there is so much repertoire around, both Baroque and rather more modern pieces. Malcolm Arnold wrote a Sonatina for Recorder (which my limited skills wouldn't allow me to play!), to name but one more modern piece.

I'm not a *huge* recorder fan, I'm sorry to say - treble and lower is OK but I just don't *like* the sound when it's played high - descant is too shrill for me even when played by an expert. But it is a hard instrument to play well, at least as much so as any other instrument. I think it gets a raw deal from not being an orchestral instrument, and from being used and abused by so many children (I knew *one* exceptional recorder player in all my years of recorder groups at primary and secondary school and all the rest of us were mediocre at best!) so that it has bad memories attached. It is a shame that no one took it seriously especially when you enjoyed it so much - probably gave you a good grounding for the oboe, though, in terms of breath control etc.

...the Malcolm Arnold piece is a great romp! I only learnt the last movement, for grade 7, and despite repeating over and over, my accompanist and I didn't manage to get the last line together as it should be until the day of the exam - how lucky was that....

Kerrioboe, get yourself involved with your nearest SRP. I've just spent the weekend at the annual festival...playing Fingal's Cave with 280 other players!!! AMAZING!!

Unfortunately I now live in France where the recorder has an even lower reputation than in England as it is used systematically in year 7 and 8 classes. The whole class (30 plus) is taught to play the recorder at once by their music teacher as a way of learning to read music. No account is taken of different music abilities (ie those who can already play an instrument and can read music and those who can't) and most music teachers fight a losing battle to actually get the pupils to buy a recorder from a music shop and not the local supermarket. An experience which is enough to put even the most musical person off the recorder for life.

*groan*...back to the instrument of torture thing.
I admit, a whole concert of only solo recorder music would be hard to take, just as harpsichord on its own for two hours has to be played by an exceptionally amazing player to be manageable - but there are some fantastic players out there, who can entertain, and who demonstrate incredible virtuosity. On the recorder front, Piers Adams, Marion Verbruggen, Pamela Thorby and Frans Brüggen come to my mind instantly; if you can find recordings, do have a listen and see what you think. It was hearing Piers Adams for the second time about four years ago which inspired me to dust down my treble and give it another go, and I'm so glad I did. I wonder if French schools would consider having recorder players to visit and play to the kids? (I know Piers does sessions with schools here). Strangely the only French player I've heard of is sort of also a Piers - he's called Pierre Hamon and I've borrowed a disc called Lucente Stella - a mixture of Renaissance and the most terrifying avant-garde stuff I've ever heard, from the 1930s.

I was there too - Fingal's Cave was a fantastic experience. The rest of the weekend was excellent too.



You could join the SRP as a Country and Overseas member. Even if you are not a member, you could still visit the UK to attend a festival or course, and would be welcome at local Branch meetings as a visitor - see the SRP website for details.

If ever you have heard a really good recorder player, you would never say that you didn't like a descant!! I went to a concert where there was a man playing who was truly amazing - it wasn't shrill or ear shattering, it was the most beautiful sound ever. Combined with a wonderful soprano voice, it was great.

My daughter plays the descant, treble recorders and the oboe. I play the recorders whilst she plays the oboe, and I find it very difficult to keep up with her. The oboe has buttons to cover the holes, whilst I have to make do with my fingers! It is a hard instrument, I think, because you have to use different blowing techniques for different notes and move your fingers around over the holes whilst trying to sound musical. May be it is just me, but although it is quite easy to play Hot Cross Buns, it is very difficult to play harder pieces on.

I wish it had been taken more seriously when I was at school, because I loved playing the recorder. There is so little preparation to playing, no reed to soak, no tuning, etc. It is a brilliant little instrument.

I've heard recordings of Piers Adams playing descant, I own recordings of Michaela Petrie playing descant, and I have heard it being played exceptionally well by a friend who was a grade 8 plus recorder player before I met her and subsequently went on to Chetham's and the RAM. I know what good descant playing sounds like - I just don't like the sound. Much prefer treble, though in general it's not an instrument I'd go out of my way to hear.

I still think it's a terrible shame it's disregarded as a "proper" instrument, even though I'm not a huge fan.

Howdy, I'm a recorder enthusiast, but what on earth is an SRP? Can someone explain please?

Matt

Society of Recorder Players. Do a google and you will get their website...

I agree yeh, no matter how well it's played it can't really match the treble's gorgeous tone.

Cheers!

Matt

I was lucky enough to go to a recorder Saturday school when I was younger. There were about 30 of us playing all types of recorder in a recorder "orchestra", we used to split up and play duets and stuff as well and do loads of concerts. I carried on playing treble and got as far as grade 8. Now I don't know anyone else who plays! I have a lovely wooden Moeck treble sitting on my shelf gathering dust now. My teacher who is now in his 80's and didn't begin playing until he was 26 was fantastic, knew Piers Adams (although didn't rate him much ) and knew everything there was to know about the origins of the recorder and it's repertoire. It is definitely a worthwhile instrument (if it's studied seriously) and unfortunately where I live an overlooked one

Speaking from personal experience as usual. Our music service runs two recorder groups and both are reasonabally well attended. The Beginner Group has increased since September but this is due to the person taking the group. Despite being a string player herself as first instrument she works in schools teaching recorder and is very good at it.

I am amazed that my girls both still play recorder as it seems at school level most of the peri's teach it and not all of them are interested. Most of them cross their fingers that the children don't get as far as John Pitts book two. If they do it's simply a case of going back over book 1. My youngest has had 5 changes of teacher in just over 3 years!

It's no wonder recorder is not seen as a serious instrument. Now I pay for private recorder lessons and both girls are working towards Grade 4, the youngest has a really nice sound. The head of the music service frequently points out that Recorder is the instrument where most people start to foster their love of playing music. I suspect it is quite true, maybe more people would continue playing or move to other instruments if the initial teaching in school was a better experience

I'm sure that more people would move on to other instruments if recorder was properly taught.

I am one of few who only started the recorder after I started an orchestral instrument, violin was where I started to learn music.

I apologise if this causes offence, but i've never really considered recorder as a serious instrument, though i know i could for several reasons!

I've noticed a pattern here. Lots of respected recorder teachers seem to have started recorder playing in their 20s. Looking at the obituaries in the current edition of The Recorder magazine, it seems that most were first study violinists or similar before 'discovering' the recorder and its potential as an educational and musical tool.

(I discovered it at 24 - I wonder if that means I'll become a respected teacher too...? )

Recorder was my first (and only) instrument until I was 14, apart from a brief and disasterous attempt at the clarinet at 11. I learned descant at school from a pair of musical and very enthusiastic class teachers. I was always about 20 pages ahead of the rest of the class, though, as I used to get home and play my way through the recorder book (dear Stephen F Goodyear - how much I owe to that man!).

I started treble at 11; this time teaching myself entirely as the nice musical teachers at school had left by then. I used to play (descant) duets with my best friend until she emigrated to Australia , after that I just had to play by myself. I entered myself for both the local music festivals, and eventually met my soon-to-be flute teacher when she beat me by one mark in the open class at one festival. I desperately wanted to play with other people, and have music lessons, but the only way to do that was to play an orchestral instrument so I took up the flute at 14.

The recorder inevitably took a back seat after that, but I've always had a recorder or two around, and played them occasionally. I have to thank these Forums and jo.clarinet especially for rekindling my interest in the recorder, and for showing me that there are an enormous number of recorder players around playing together for enjoyment.

And, Sarah, most recorder players seem to prefer the lower instruments as well. The AATB-type consorts we played during the course were enjoyed more than the SATB ones.

I'd rather people didn't assume you have to "move on"...
I'm also desperate to play in ensemble, and only now, after almost two decades of self-teaching and three years of formal learning, have I managed to chum up with others to play the sort of music I like. (Sorry, folks, but the SRP isn't everyone's cup of tea any more than the recorder itself is.)

Glad it's not just me

anacrusis: no, you don't have to move on - but not everyone wants to play the recorder to a high level. It would benefit both those who fell in love with it in and of itself, and those who preferred to move on to other instruments, if it was taught well in the first place.

I don't honestly think I would ever have stayed with the recorder as a first or only instrument, regardless of how well it was taught. Fortunately, I started violin first and learned stuff that I then applied to learning the recorder so in my case it's very fortunate that my good teaching on the violin started before my terrible teaching on the recorder, otherwise I suspect the recorder itself and music in general would have been something I lost interest in.

I used to do this too!

Whilst reminiscing - when I first started (age 5 in the early 1970s) we used to play on school recorders which were dipped into some sort of disinfectant between groups. When my parents bought me my own I was amazed to discover that it didn't have the same yucky taste!

I was tasting my new recorder for hours after I finished playing it yesterday. Nice boxwood taste, though, rather than disinfectant.

How're you enjoying your new recorder, Andante? Did you get a Knick tenor or a "normal" one?

Yup, ours were disinfected between lessons in middle school. Luckily by then though, I had already been to the Early Learning Centre (aged about 7) and bought myself a nice bright red one with a 'Teach Yourself' book. (I could already read music). The fact that I played a red recorder while everyone else had the brown school ones got me into the paper when I was about 8, at a first school concert!

No, it's a normal one, but with a C/C# key. It's a whole inch shorter than my Yamaha plastic. I tried all the different makes, including Kung and Mollenhauer, and ones with knicks and extra keys, but the Moeck was the most comfortable.

I love those - I just can't reach them
W

Gosh! that's a lot!

I was playing my tenor (ancient aulos one) the other day with a friend, and it made my fingers ache! Can't afford a new one though. Just have to stick with treble


Bet it was fun trying everything! Glad you found one that suits you

Interestingly the boxwood, which was the cheapest, was nicer than the palisander or the ebony. I had Harriet (noisybassoonist) helping me make a decision, and we both agreed the boxwood was the best.

That's curious - when we looked at trebles your Yamaha was less of a stretch than my Moeck - which is why I bought a Yamaha.

What's even more curious is that the Mollenhauer treble was much less stretchy for me than the Moeck, but the Moeck tenor was much less stretchy than the Mollenhauer. It's all down to individual finger/hand sizes. I tried someone's Dolmetsch, which she said was the only make she could reach, and I couldn't cover the G hole properly.

Oh right! That is interesting. Good though - to have the nicest sound and the cheapest prices has to be a good bet

I suppose the differences between what different people feel comfortable with just shows how different we all our. I suppose that, with recorders, when you have to be so accurate with your finger placings, everything is exagerated in terms of what "fits" your hands.

My dolmetsh treble is noticibly my smallest treble. It is quite a shock when chanigng from that to my A=415, which is quite a bit longer!!!!!!

The recorder wasn't "rediscovered" until the first half of the 20th century (too lazy to look up the exact dates) and didn't become wide-spread until the 50s. So it is not surprising that people whose obituaries are occurring right now only started in their 20s - that is the age they were when it became known about.

Maybe?

But I only started playing seriously in my 20s, too.

Boxwood is probably the most "traditional" of woods for recorders, anyway. My two best whistles are also in boxwood, and I love them! Trouble is, I think they may well not last as long as the harder woods. I comfort myself that at least they're a bit more sustainable. One of my friends does have the most beautiful-sounding ebony treble - it all depends on what you get to play on the day, doesn't it? I'm glad to hear you're getting on well with the new instrument.