Hi everyone,

Just a quick heads-up: I've got my old oboe advertised for sale on a website that specialises in musical instrument sales, and over the past few days I've been getting lots of VERY dodgy looking emails through offering to buy it. I'm pretty sure these are from the sort of scammers that would send a cheque through that would be for a much higher amount, and then ask you to return the difference to them......but then the original cheque is found to be fraudulent after you have cashed it, and you lose your money. I know that a lot of music teachers here get similar emails offering to send money in advance for music lessons

Here are examples of two of the emails:

Dear sir/madam,
I am Robert Harrison the sales executive officer PHOENIX PROCUREMENT
INCORPORATION located on 49,trinity avenue Australia.i specialise in
buying goods for my clients in europe and asia as an agent and get
payed in commission .
I inform my client about your Instrument ,he said he is interested in buying
it and he agree to pay the sum of £485.
I will arrange for the pick up of the good ,so I will want you to
reach me as soon as possible if the good is still for sale.
Thanks,
RObert....

and


Hello,
I saw your Buffet Advert posted which i agree to purchase and would like to know:
The present condition,
Why do you put it on sale.
When last was it used.
If it is still avaialble for sale i will have Check sent to you which i found Easy,Fast to cash and well recognised which is guaranteed and can easily be cashed immediately.
I have a private shipper who will be coming to pick up the Buffet and also be signing all document regarding purchase and ownership of the Buffet . I would you to get back to me with the following details:
Full name....
Full contact address...........
Zip\Area Code............................
state.................
Phone number...............
Kindly reply back with the requested question so as to proceed to payment procedure .
Once the datas are provided to me,i can send payment immediately.Iwill be expecting your reply asap
Thanks And God Bless
Best Regards

Lola Johnson..............................



It becomes pretty obvious they are scammers if you are aware of the scam, but I thought I'd post here in case anyone hasn't heard about it. Be careful everyone!

Cheers,
Toni

I've had my flute headjoint up for sale on a site that is similar to the one you described. We have had no serious offers but plenty of scams.

A good thing to look out for on those is their spelling and their grammar, or so my dad says. If the spelling or grammar is off, or they use thoes words that sounds the same but mean a different thing (ie. Check/cheque) then steer well clear of them.

I'm not sure why spelling or grammar would be an indication of dishonesty? I can't see any particular link between them.

I'm dyslexic, and homonyms are a particular problem for me - so the whole check / cheque thing has been known to catch me. But I can assure you, I've never engaged in an internet scam!

I don't think PD means that bad grammar means you're dishonest, but more that those scam emails usually have bad grammar/spelling, with homonyms often used and badly constructed sentences. It's not that people who can't spell are dishonest, but it's true that those scammers, all the times I have seen people post stuff about them, generally have terrible grammar, and often use Americanised spelling (my American friends use "check" for "cheque" as the correct spelling).

So an email which reads as though someone has used an online translator is worth eyeing with suspicion - Toni's example provides some classic examples, such as "Kindly reply back with the requested question so as to proceed to payment procedure" (what??), " the pick up of the good" and "Once the datas are provided to me"

They're usually understandable, but the English is often rather mangled.

Also, they often seem to contain randomised capital letters, ie "i will have Check sent to you which i found Easy,Fast to cash".

I'm not sure why this is, as I'm sure the scammers would get a better rate of return if they took the trouble to make their emails reasonably grammatical and well-spelled, but a combination of these things is often an indication of it not being a genuine enquiry.

Sorry, I wasn't generally meaning that people with bad grammar are scammers, just as Sarah said, that these letters often contain bad grammar and incorrect spelling which is a way that you can set them apart form the rest as being hoaxes.

Surely it's equally problemmatic to assume that problems communicating in a second language are indicative of scamming?

I accept that the scam style emails are often poorly written. What I'm challenging is the extension of that - the suggestion that .

If someone wrote to me claiming to be from Australia, as one of the scams Toni posts does, and had such poor grammar then yes, I would be suspicious. Ditto if they claimed to be from America or the UK. There's a difference between just being ungrammatical/making spelling slips, and the kind of mistakes which suggest it's a 2nd language. If someone said that they were not from the UK/English was not their mother tongue, then one would expect that their English might not be so good, though I would also expect someone who seriously wanted to buy the instrument would make every effort to make it as clear as possible. (I know I would, if for instance I was writing to someone in Russian, though I'm sure I'd also make mistakes) If they are writing in a 2nd language, then excellent grammar is an achievement. But for example, "Robert Harrison" is apparently writing from Australia and is a sales executive, and yet his email looks like it's been written by someone whose grasp of English is shaky - capitalisation is all over the shop, and his grammar is plain weird. He wouldn't be out of place in an intermediate EFL class... So, yes, that is suspicious. Someone might genuinely have problems writing an email that makes sense but 1) they're relatively rare as compared with scammers and 2) usually someone in that position would have help making sure the email made sense. I have a friend who's severely dyslexic, but he doesn't just turn essays for professional development courses in with incomprehensible grammar and atrocious spelling - his wife helps him by proof-reading them.

In context, the dodgy spelling etc (esp from someone claiming to be from an English speaking country) along with the person not wanting to try the instrument, not suggesting the use of escrow or similar for the money side of things, etc, all adds up to a scam. I doubt anyone would turn down a potential buyer just because they couldn't spell or put together a sentence, but in the context of emails like these, it's another indicator that it probably isn't worth the risk.

Half these emails also claim to be some sort of business - ie the chap from Australia who buys instruments for his clients - and no business would surely, even by email, send out official emails that were hopelessly misspelled and/or verging on not making sense because of the grammar.

Bad spelling does not equal dishonesty, and I'm sure PD never intended that meaning, but the fact is that odd spelling and convoluted grammar is one of the things which, in combination with other factors, often suggests a dodgy offshore internet scam, and if in doubt it usually isn't worth getting bitten on these things. It's a typical hallmark. Maybe there are genuine people who send out such emails, it's probable, but for most of us it isn't worth the risk of our instrument and money too to find out whether or not that person is genuine. Sa but true, indicative of the world we live in I guess. Hence it is sensible for genuine buyers to suggest things like escrow, to make their meaning clear, etc etc. Does this mean that sometimes honest buyers will get mistaken for scammers? Sadly, yes, I expect so. But most of us can't afford to find out the expensive way.

The emails sound very reminiscent of those where someone claims to be the relative of a high-brow official in some African country and wants you to help him/her bank $4,000,000 (or an equally riduculous sum of cash), before it apparently ends up being lost. The only thing to lose would be your own cash.

Yeah I get those all the time - apparently I have been recommended as a business person a lot....

Me too! they must think we were born yesterday.

in combination with other factors, often suggests a dodgy offshore internet scam

as opposed to a non-dodgy offshore internet scam???
sorry - couldn't resist!

We used some such sites early on, when we were dealing in used instruments. I don't think we've listed anything on any such site for at least three years but we still get the scam messages. I don't think we have had even one serious inquiry. I am forced to conclude that such sies are a total waste of time and best avoided

Liz

I have considered in the past giving the bank details of my old bank account, which has about 5p in it and no overdraft facility. I wouldn't seriously do it but sometimes it seems tempting just to see what would happen

I wouldn't, Sarah. Having no overdraft facility wouldn't stop the account from going overdrawn, it'd just mean the bank clobbered you harder for its doing so

Yeah true - not worth it. I have never seriously considered it - just one of those "hmmm" thoughts that hits you at 4pm on a boring afternoon...

If poor grammar and spelling were definitive indicators of dishonesty and "scamming" then, I hate to admit, it but most of the regular posters on this site would fit into these categories.

When selling anything you have to use your common sense and intelligence. Don't part with the goods until you've been paid and if this means waiting several days for a cheque to clear then so be it.

I've sold lots of things on eBay, even a digital piano, and numerous cameras etc. I have always received the money (cash and /or cheques) up-front and have never "been scammed"

Any idiot who sends the goods before payment is received deserves to get ripped off.