Hello Bo and others,

I have only done a couple of scales so far. Any ideas at all if you violinists can remember - What do I have to learn/do in/to reach grade 6 level?

I suspect that I won't be allowed to learn the Bach double until I have reached grade 6 distinction level so I want to get there as soon as possible!!!!!!!!!! *rant and rave* Oh, oh, I'm losing my not-very-long-lasting patience!

VN

I never got to G6 distinction level but....

Get lots of practice at double & triple stopped chords - I know I had a fair few of those in one of my pieces. (and one or two quadruple stopped ones )

Stable vibrato I'd think would be a must - and the ability to stop it too! Being able to vary it would be a good bonus.

Confidence in the G6 scales - you need harmonic AND melodic at this stage.

Practice at playing in the higher positions.

Distinction at G6-8 requires more than just playing the notes - they expect "interpretation" - I think from what your mum's said you're a pretty expressive player anyway, but try and think about what you want the music to say.

If I think of anything else I'll let you know.... I'm sure Bo and co will have more useful stuff to say

Hey VN,

I'm working towards G6 at the moment too. Pretty much what Sarah has said holds true. What I've found is that I'm expected to have a much higher level of bow technique than I am used to (although that just might be my crazy French teacher who thinks that sautillé and ricochet are necessary at my level... he is, of course, mad). Work at your scales, keep your vibrato under control (try to use both wrist and arm vibrato for different effects) and aim for a wide array of tone colour.

Sorry I can't give you a great deal more advice than that - those who have actually done G6 and higher will be able to help you more. Good luck!

Allan

Grade 6 is quite different to grade 5 because, like everyone has said, you can't just play the notes in tune and at the right time. They have to actually start meaning something, and it all needs to sound more like a performance. On violin in particular, to make your playing sound really good and expressive, you need a good solid technique first, so I think that should be the first thing to go for. Vibrato is a must! Not necessarily on every single note, but when you're playing a slow piece, or holding a note, they will expect it. Double stops start coming into play at grade 6 too, which will test anyone's intonation.

I'm afraid I never actually did grade 6 (or 7) so I don't know the scales, but I imagine you should be playing a few 3 octaves scales in major and minor (harmonic and melodic), starting dominant and maybe diminished 7ths (possibly just 1 octave though), and no doubt some octaves sclaes, but not just straight octaves, probably playing the bottom note, followed by the top note in a slur, and then with a new bow, both notes together. I'm sure the syllabus is online somewhere. I do recall that part of the Dvorak Sonatine is on the list, that's a great one to learn I've probably already mentioned it, but it really is great fun!

Go for it VN - at your rate you'll be doing the Bach soon enough, and it will be worth it. I'm re-learning it (yay!!) to play at a concert right now, it is a lovely piece Maybe you could set yourself little targets each week, like 2/3 scales a week, and decide when you want to finish your current pieces by, then you will be able to see when you could start the Bach, which would probably get you to your target more quickly, and might make it come quicker, as the end will be in sight.

Oooh yeah, fab piece!

I agree with Allan that bowing will probably be something you'll be expected to work on, I was rubbish but then that's why I got 112 not distinction

And thinking about what Allan said in another thread - work on harmonics maybe? Both natural and artificial.

::SHUDDER::

find a happy place, find a happy place, find a happy place....

"Rubbish" does not get you 112 !

I agree.

Harmonics aren't that bad!
Probably a good idea to start experimenting, even if you do get some pretty hairy sounds...artificial harmonics are, in my very humble and probably slightly odd opinion (should that be IMVHAPSOO?), actually not that bad IF you work on intonation. You don't have to be in exactly the right place on the string, it's just the interval which has to be right.

Oh OK... well compared to VN then! (I never was a distinction candidate on the fiddle!) To be honest I think the examiner was pretty kind! I'm a nervous wreck for any exam, but playing the violin is even worse

Bo: good point - I would imagine that as well as working on intonation being good for artificial harmonics, that working on artifical harmonics would be good for intonation.

Natural ones it's a case of being able to hit the right spot. For the octave one on an open string, if my thumb is still lightly behind the knobbly bit on the neck of the violin, and I put my little finger where it naturally falls with the hand spread but not stretched (ie the fingers are apart from each other but only where they natural and easily fall to - not stretched by the muscles) then I'll be there or very close. Unfortunately I don't remember how I was taught to find it, or I'd share the secret. But that's best I can how I can explain it! Hmmm, I've been finding it that way for many years, and I can't help thinking my hands must have grown. Maybe it used to be more of a stretch... sorry, clear as mud...

That's probably the best explanation there is!!
It's sort of fractions...there's one half way up the string, another 1/4 of the way, 3/4, two which are quite easy to find but hard to sound are the ones a perfect 4th from the open string and a perfect 5th from the open string. Trick is to get your bow moving pretty fast. With artificial harmonics, having your 1st finger pressed down very hard is the other essential.

I have a sneaking suspicion that when I was learning them, I used to find the half way point very deliberately (looking at the violin, possibly having it on my lap) just so I could see what it felt like/what it sounded like. I think the 1/4 one is possible to find in terms of finger positions (ie like the ones Bo's mentioned at the 4th and the 5th) but I forget which one. I think that the octave one may be approximately 4th finger in 4th position??

With practice, finding them will become a lot easier, and (eventually) automatic

I just went to get my fiddle so that I could actually work this out

If I put my left hand as if I was about to play, but didn't put any fingers down, then move so that it is resting against the body of the violin, THEN lightly put my 4th finger on the string, I hit the octave harmonic bang on. This harmonic seems to be everso slightly more forgiving of not being quite there than most, but you'll know when you've hit it perfectly, it rings out like a bell.

(If I put my finger down to the fingerboard when I'm playing that harmonic, it seems to give a slightly sharp octave, weird!)

The 2 octave (1/4 string) harmonic is on or around your 3rd finger, 4th above the open string, sounds 2 octaves higher. The one that's a 5th above, ie where your 4th finger is, sounds an octave and a 5th above. They're both quite hard to make ring out, personally I find the one at the 5th slightly easier - they're less forgiving in terms of having your finger in exactly the right spot.

I've probably been as clear as mud here.... if that's the case, please feel free to ignore me totally

Hi Sarah and Bo,

Well, I'm definitely not qualified to comment technically so I won't! On the non-technical side, however, can I just say, my family trained me as a very young kid, not to compare myself with other people? We've also in the same way, trained VN from toddlerhood not to compare with her peers. It is unfortunately a NO-WIN situation in which we ALL from time to time find ourselves. I'm guilty, too.

When VN goes into JC, there'll loads of kids, a professor told me, who started at just 4 (very common for violin) and way beyond the early stage of grade 6, so if VN looks at them and start comparing, she will despair. Then again, if she compares with those who started at about 7 or 8, she may feel overly proud? Don't know which is worse. That accounts for our constant encouragement to her not to compare herself to others but instead focus on where she was a year ago and where she is now and then aim for distinction level or whatever she feels most comfortable with, for the following year.

Tess

Bo, I'm so glad you had a great lesson with CW! Sometimes spending all that money is horribly inevitable but then your lesson was worth every penny!

It was free! He was really nice about it, said not to worry about payment. Funny, probably the most valuable lesson of my life cost nothing at all...

Sarah, go get your violin, here's a neat trick which I use as a lazy option for an arpeggio...
You play an A (3rd pos, 1st finger, E string), C sharp (3rd pos, 3rd finger, E string), then the harmonic where you would find E (3rd pos, 2nd finger, A string), followed by the harmonic where you would find D (3rd pos, 1st finger A string). An excellent way to avoid position changes
VN could try that out actually, it's a good one when starting harmonics because your hand doesn't need to move around to find them.

Nice one! I had to read it about 3 times going "What the blazes is she talking about", then it clicked! Groovy!


That's really cool

VN's out today but when she comes back, Bo, when she reads this bit, she'll be green with envy re. your lesson, I bet! free!!! Cool. Pity he's based up north.

Just been to VN's first lesson. Wow, like Allan said, a lot of bow technique - I was lost! I can't even follow but I guess I was in the far end of the long room and far more interested in jotting down personal entries in my diary the whole time instead ... which I find more therapeutic than listening in on her lesson. It sounds REALLY hard to my half-listening ears and then there's also musical interpretation which isn't about mere expression. It's a mixbag of knowledge, instincts, feelings, er, etc. No wonder RAM's Junior Academy Director told parents on Open Day that in general, they do not encourage the little ones (12 years and under) to take grade 8 exams due to their typical level of maturity. They prefer the students to wait till they are more mature and able to get a high distinction of at least 140. So true.

Grade 6 is quite hard. Multi multiple stops!!! Before this, it wasn't. Back to practice, now.

Bye.

VN