David

You have my sympathy and apologies for hijacking your Topic.

Another one cancelled this week after learning for year. Excuse being, she wanted to save her money in order to help the Cambodian street children if you please!

David
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I'm considering adding a new clause to my termly invoice: "Unless you are likely to vomit on my piano, I will no longer be accepting excuses for missed lessons." Up until now, I have done my best to fill in missed lessons at a later date, but excuses like the above are becoming more and more the norm!

I'm afraid that this all comes down to the throwaway society we live in. If I'd said I wanted to learn an instrument when I was younger, I would jolly well been made to stick to it! No excuses!

David

Children (with the odd exception) are just not taught self-discipline any more. They are spoon-fed everything, right through the education system. Unfortunately, this doesn't work so well with playing a musical instrument, as they have to do more than respond to a yes/no question on a page. Sorry if I'm going a bit off-topic here, but what is the future of classical music for our great grandchildren? Will anyone go beyond Grade 3, or will they all just prefer to exercise their fingers with their playstations?

This is so true, one of the reasons I want my children to learn instruments is to develop some. Unfortunately it is an attribute not appreciated by their peers. I have parents look at me with horror when instead of shepherding my children across minor roads, I get them to tell me if is safe to cross, and only if they make the wrong decision hold their hands. I am fortunate with my pupils as their parents are the type who won't let them quit.

Am I so out of kielter with parents when I believe my job as a mum is to equipt my children in the skills they will need to be functional adults with good job prospects, and hat everything I have done with my parenting from day one has had that objective in mind?

I see this sort of thing all the time in schools.

The 'throwaway society' - hmmm, yes, you've hit the nail on the head there...

Children have so much on offer these days - they can never attend after-school rehearsals because of swimming/karate/horse-riding/brownies/stage school/dancing/football etc etc etc. Most children seem to do at least one 'activity' every night after school.

Because there is so much on offer, they get used to being able to drop in and out of things when they feel like it.

I have, in the past, issued choir contracts in September. The children come to three choir rehearsals and then decide if it is something they want to do. They then commit themselves to the whole year and both child, parent and teacher sign a contract. It seems a bit extreme but...I didn't do it this year, and I have had SUCH problems with children just dropping out (usually without telling me - they just don't appear any more).

I totally agree with what Patricia says about self-discipline and spoon-feeding. I think I am becoming a Grumpy Old Woman because I am fed up with this 'throwaway' mentality. I gave the few children who bothered to turn up to choir last week a Big Talk about commitment and they just looked at me as if I was speaking Mandarin.

As a child I did piano and ballet only. I gave up ballet when I went to secondary school because of logistics, and wasn't allowed to give up piano (although I wanted to much earlier) until I was 17.

BAH! DOUBLEBAH!!!

Oh my goodness! I can so relate to this.

I've done the choir contracts too. Except even the parents are no longer taking them seriously.

I've just spent a morning grumbling at my recorder students at school. No lessons for 4 weeks (not contracted to do the first or last week of term). Concert in 3 weeks time. Have they picked up their recorders in the last 5 weeks?? Have they heck as like
Very disappointed with them.

So I suggest they practice since the concert it coming and I've had 3 letters from parents saying their little dahlings will have to give up recorder until after the concert because they couldn't possible fit 5 minutes in their day to go through their pieces.

Fortunately I don't have a problem with the private students, but school ones, I could scream!!

It's pathetic.

Oh my goodness! I can so relate to this.
Me too! I don't teach in schools these days, but more and more I'm finding it's worthwhile to "interview" the parents of prospective pupils to gauge their attitude before taking the family on. However keen the child is initially, if some support and commitment from the parent(s) isn't at least partially there, it's an uphill struggle.

swimming/karate/horse-riding/brownies/stage school/dancing/football etc etc etc. Most children seem to do at least one 'activity' every night after school.
You forgot kumon maths, chess, extra tutors and several other things!! Some of my students do two or three things on the same evening. It makes me dizzy.

I had a mum phone me a while back to ask about music lessons " he's busy most days after school so it needs to be between 4.15 and 5 on Tuesdays".
needless to say I didn't take him on.

Humph.
Another Grumpy Old Woman.

Please add me to the list of Grumpy Old Woman.

I see this all the time. It is a sad fact of the sign of the times.

Spoon fed and no self discipline. I was only discussing this the other day with a lovely lady who teaches A level "students". Those were the exact wordswe both described the little "Dahlings" of today's Society. In turn she had had a conversation with a Uni professor who is totally and utterly sick and tired of the whole education infrastructure.

Now off on the school run - I like to sit outside and read for a peaceful 30 mins or so,listening to R2 "Golden Oldies".

Latest book is by one of my fav authors,Joanne Harris,entitled "Gentlemen and Players".It's set in a Public School and one sub plot is getting rid of the Classics teacher!!!

I just adore Ms Harris' books.

I'm not old bust certainly grumpy about this matter.

This approach also hinders the ability of us parents who do want self-discipline and independent thought to be qualities in our children.

The problem is that children have no role models any more amongst older children. Nobody has to be self-disciplined and when you are your counted as a nerd.

My fridge is full of reward charts. One for the morning routine, another for getting homework and spelling done, another for music practice. My kids are young at the moment 5 and 7, but they need to develop self discipline and good study techniques from the word go. As for the rewards, they have to earn their pocket money through the morning routine. A copy of the Beano is earnt through Homework/Spellings for Older Son. The Dandy is earnt through Homework for the younger one. As for the Music practice one, they have to work toward Bronze, Silver and Gold Medals. Relevant CDs are earnt that way (eg Naxos recording of Violin music for younger son, and piano/ voice recordings for older son). Pocket money is deducted for whinging, not getting work done and bad behaviour.

I've even written out a timetable for one pupil over how to fit in her music practice and homework around her other commitment. At least she's doing her Piano practice for me now!

Enough of the rant, I see this as a parent and teacher. How are these spoonfed kids going to cope with adulthood I wonder?

I partly agree with what has been said about contracts. Parents reluctantly sign them (usually after they've lost 2 and you've given another). Then when they come to quit and you say you need a month's notice, they're not interested. So they're hardly worth the paper they're written on.

David

Hi Semele! I'm glad you're feeling better now. Yes you have done the right thing! Do you know the other teacher the boy had lessons with? It wouldn't surprise me if the other teacher was in the same situation as you.

I had a couple of parents who withdrew the pupils - existing pupils who had been with me a couple of terms - three weeks into the term and then flatly refused to pay even for the lessons the child had had! They know full well it isn't worth you taking them to court for such a small amount.

liz

I have taken parents to the Small Claim Court and won. It is not a lot of hassle and you can even issue proceedings from this site:

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

I am currently being sued for £1.15...Ebay listing fee by a powerseller at the moment. She has forked out £30 for the Court fee to recover such a large sum of money and there is no certainty she will win.

With regards to piano teaching,if people don't pay they are in breach of Contract.Totally different kettle of fish. Normally a concise,strong worded but polite letter makes them pay up.

Hi Noodle - I know of the teacher,but having taught pupils they have previously "tutored" I have no desire to enter into comms with them.I have been correcting this teacher's mistakes in their G4 theory!!!

Whilst I am going to have no sympathy with you if you are a non-paying bidder, the seller can get a relisting fee credit if there is an unpaid item dispute. That plus an NPB plus a neg is enough to satisfy most sellers - going to court over such an amount is just plain silly, though of course you will wind up paying court fees and possibly other expenses as well if the seller wins - and if you don't turn up and the seller does, the seller WILL win.

Liz

A rap on my knuckles. Yes - the seller did sell the item the second time round,so aswell as making the Claim null and void,she varied the original Contract and I appealed through the NPB process and got the Strike removed.

I have transferred the Claim over to my local Court,so I will be turning up! I have also been a good girl and responded to the Allocation form -again,if I didn't the judgement would have gone in her favour.

This is the first time I have never fulfilled an auction. I have had my share of problems when selling stuff,but some sellers are just so unreasonable. The seller also negs buyers that leave justified neutrals.

I'm still awaiting a neg...my first one.

I will PM you a link you might find interesting.

Absolute Ditto!

I just had a 'run in' with a parent too this week!

The junior school told me a parent didn't think I was pushing her daughter enough in her Flute lesson
Well this girl is persistantly late, week in, week out, straight from registration.
So I wrote in her Abracadabra book... Do NOT turn up 10 minutes late in your 20 minute lesson.

This week, mother turns up with daughter in hand, at 8:50am asking me to make timetable changes just for her daughter.
It went like this...
"Can she not have the 2nd, 10 minutes of the lesson?"
So I replied "You managed to get here on time today then!"

Her reply "Well we would have to get the earlier bus and then wait outside the school before it opens at 9am.
And if you don't change the timetable then we'll just have to stop the lessons".
"Look, it's ONLY on Mondays - once a week until next year. Why is that so difficult?"

And I have to drive 20 miles for this crapp
(Half-term happy pills are just kicking in now!!!)

I've had quite a few parents recently asking me to change other people's times so that their darling child can have there lesson at the most convinient time (which always seems to be between 5:15 and 5:45 on a Thursday only!)

David

Sorry, but I disagree with this. Yes, there are lots of children who are part of the throw away culture, but I wouldn't say that they are the majority. Often you have to remember that children are pushed into learning an instrument because their parent wants them to and they don't. They show some interest at first until they can convince their parents that they don't want to do it, which they don't. I know many people in my school who would love instrumental lessons. Why can't they have them? Because the people who start having lessons at our school never seem to stop, with very few exceptions. While I agree with you that there are quite a few children who pick things up and drop them at the top of a hat, most of them don't when they really want to learn and it's their decision. Feel free to question me, but it's my experience.

I think that it is a great thing that many children have the opportunities to try out as many hobbies and interests as they want. They will choose the favourites and drop the others when the time is right. If music is going to be their thing they will do it. If they love an instrument they will put in some practice between lessons. If not then it is our duty as teachers to inspire them to do so, not to badger and bully them. One of the finest teachers that I ever had was a science master at school. His lessons were so interesting, and such fun that the entire class wanted to become scientists, and in the end of year exams the average mark was over 90%.
I am not sure about children being short of self-discipline either. When I was in junior school we worked in a different way. We had homework set one day to be ready by the next, and we did it. If I had been asked to write a project and to have it ready by perhaps two months' time I am not at all sure that I would have had the drive to do so until the last minute, but today's students do.

Hi
Is this a private fight or can anyone join in
I am old 61 coming up and yes have a lived in face - a nest of rats I think

I have all these problems to the extent that I am thinking seriously of dumping all kids and focussing on teaching adults only - yes you get messed about but not as much

I now filter very carefully on the phone - if I don't like the sound of them I either put my prices quickly or they pay me upfront or I have no vacancies

I fired one mother because she told me that I had to get her daughter through Grade 1 piano in a very short space of time so that she could qualify for entry into a Catholic school - as the family was strict Muslim I found this rather ironic I simply went to my door opened and pointed and said " I would like you out there please as soon as possible "

Non payers - forget it I am 17 stone plus and a heavy weight trainer - no one gets out my door without paying - In the immortal words of Mr Billy Connolly Don't let the long hair fool you pal I like violence !

I will back you up here - and also add another point.

People speak of people being late / cancelling lessons at the last minute. If it's one person in particular, then fair enough, it's one person's problem. If it's a range of people, then it might be another factor completely, such as people feeling that they can't talk to their teacher (I'm not aiming this at anyone at all, the last thing I'd want to do is create friction), which is what I've experienced. Teenagers especially - my mood can go up and down at irregular intervals. When I'm low, the last thing I want to do is go and say to someone that I can't make their lesson, for fear of being questioned as to why. Also, I don't want to go and speak to people because of fear of disappointment. I'm scared of disappointing people.

Other people don't appear to realise. Make sure that your students can talk to you, I think it's a really really important thing. You are their friend, you are on the same side as they are.

Good old-fashioned straight-talking is a wonderful thing. So is being clear in your own mind as to what you are and are not prepared to put up with as a teacher - how much you're prepared to prostitute your art for disinterested children/obnoxious parents. The more black and white you are from the offset, the less "misunderstanding" can upset the equilibrium. Parents need to know that they can't mess you around, but this leaves no room for the teacher messing the parent around, either! I find that the straighter you are with people, the straighter they are with you. If they don't like it, then they can find another teacher.

Re Straight Talking - this is where the old leathery look comes in useful My TV acting experience playing pimps, heavies and assorted nutters means I can project brooding violence quite easily

In the early days I would put up with a lot more messing around but my answer is now to go and market and get more pupils Please bear in mind that I teach across 3 instrument groups I don't think I could make a full time living just of one instrument