Is it me, or are parents just around to wind teachers up? Give me the children any day, but the parents! Yesterday, one mother asked that if her little darling didn't play much in the lesson - i.e. it was more theoretical than practical, would the lesson be free?

Several people booked in for lessons before Easter, then this week they either haven't bothered to turn up or they've decided they don't want them anymore or they've got too many other things on etc. etc. (usual excuses 'My daughters doing a performance of Noyes Fluddle so could she just have a 10 minute lesson each week!). This is so annoying becuase obvioulsy those are spaces I could have filled. I'd even asked people to confirm last week their lessons, which they all did.

One more run in this week....!!!

David

We all sympathise with you. There cannot be many of us who have not experienced this.

One of the problems younger teachers has is parents of kids they are teaching being older than they are. There us a breed if parent that fails to recognise the expertise of anybody younger than they are. Occasionally, this is a deliberate bullying strategy; usually it is unconscious.

There have been a number of threads on this topic in the time I have been reading these boards. One of the things the thread starters had in common was being relatively young.

There is nothing you can do about this luck so-and-so . Sadly, you simply have to wait until your face acquires that lived-in look, around about the age of 40. Those of us in our 50's and above rarely have problems with parents; we are older than they are and can bully right back if necessary

You can do a couple of simple, practical things to help. Make sure your certificates are prominently displayed where parents will see them. Include all your quali letters in your letterhead on all written communications to parents, including bills for lessons. This doesn't make a huge difference, but every little bit helps.

Hang on in there. Stand up for yourself. Remain polite but insist on affairs being carried on in a businesslike fashion.

Loads more sympathy.

Steve

I only have one pupil but really really hope the parent isn't like this!!!! in the future and my pupils mum is the really really pushy sort as well...

My lack of years (36) and not wanting the run-around is one of the reasons I insist parents sign contracts.

Fortunately here the grey hair, and my husbands weekend job (he is an NSM Curate) add gravitas. I've had some parents give me the runaround, but fortunately this is the exception not the rule.

OMG, that's priceless! I haven't had that one yet!



So, this 10 minute lesson...is it at the cost of the normal lesson? If not, it should be

I don't think much of it has to do with my age - if I've got wait till I'm 40 as you suggest, I've got an awful long way to go! I think older teachers get much the same problems - certainly the one's I know do. I do get parents to sign contracts but obviously it's difficult to deal with this until the first lesson. My certificates are prominantly displayed and I use all my letters on letterheads etc.

I just can't understand how some parents have the audacity to behave in the way they do - a sign of the times I guess!

David

"Sadly, you simply have to wait until your face acquires that lived-in look, around about the age of 40."

Oh,all the stories I could tell. Having reached that certain age,they still try it on.Please permit me to share my tale that occurred only yesterday. (I did debate about starting a thread for advice,but I know what I have to do).

I had changed a lesson to the morning especially for this pupil.They arrived 15 mins late.I was going out straight after and therefore phoned them up to be told they were on their way.

Background: Pupil and mum are of foreign origin.The pupil is EXTREMELY talented. He is 11 years old and already gained Grade 5 practical with an excellent teacher down south. Musical ability level across the board...sight reading etc all up to standard. A teacher's delight.

However,he is behind with his theory....G4 at moment. Having been to another teacher up here,quite rightly his mum cancelled lessons. Therefore I'm trying to get him up to sitting G5 and trying to provide a wide repertoire of pieces to keep him interested all in 45 mins. Difficult to say the least as theory is taking up most of the time. But I am digressing.

Always go with your instincts. I knew the minute I set eyes on the mother,she would be a pain in the neck about money. As usual,I had a consultation with both pupil and mum and handed her my terms. During the trial period I ended up giving the pupil an hour...charged only 45 mins fee. After terms kicked in she said an hour's lesson would be better and I agreed to this.Out of a gesture of goodwill I continued giving pupil 60 mins for that month. I decided to put a stop to this and the next month - I also put my fees up that month - I told her I would have to charge her the full amount for an hour's lesson. She was most put out and said she couldn't afford it,so I replied that I couldn't afford to lose that extra amount either. Lesson went back to 45 mins.

She is also slow in paying...has so much on her mind.I might get a cheque on the third week of month.I'm currently awaiting payment for exam paper...only £2.50,but she comes without her purse and this is the third time I have asked for it. I feel she thinks I should give her the paper.

Back to yesterday. They arrived late,so the pupil got 30 mins. I explained I couldn't make up the extra as I was going out. She doesn't appreciate I have things to do during the day.

End of lesson I explained what the pupil had to do...she sits in. AND THEN....

She started going on about bloo*y money again at the end of the lesson. Basically she does not want to pay for lessons the pupil won't have. She can't understand why I work during spring term,summer hols etc and why I charge for missed lessons. Once again I explained that self employed teachers don't get a salary like their salaried counterparts....blah,blah,blah. She had "lost" her copy of my terms,so I handed her another copy and had to go through them again.

She continued that sometimes...not perhaps this year...she does go back to her native country for about 12 weeks at a time during summer and objects to paying me for the lessons the pupil won't have.Now in this respect she does have a valid point and it is covered in my terms. Pupils can have 2 weeks where they are not charged for hols and if we are talking about about longer periods then I require a retainer fee to keep the slot open.I usually ask for half my fee.Not unreasonable.

Being aware this posting is getting very long I have told her to find another teacher or accept my terms like she did after the trial period ended. Apart for this,that made me late,I'm thoroughly fed up with the whole saga regarding this exceptional pupil.

I have now decided it is best to lose him. Very sad,but I told her I'm a professional teacher and make my living this way and I'm not the "little lady that lives down the road" that does it for " pleasure" or "side line" or even students undercutting professionals.

I have read that other poster who charges a fiver per hour.I hope it is a mistype!

Anyway, have I done the right thing? I think so as she is taking advantage of me in other ways too.

If you have read this,apologies for the long rant.

Okay, answer me this one. How on earth do you get them all on a letterhead?

They are sooo impressive

It's so annoying. It's not just having that lived in look (though it does really help...which is why I've refused a TV extreme makeover!). Other things help.

Charging for missed lessons.
Teaching them how to treat you.
Exuding confidence

I very rarely have the problem parent any more. Can't remember when the problem stopped...it just did. I do remember them though, so I do feel for you

****! I hope so too! Those are the sort of prices that make parents believe that we home teachers are overcharging!

I have talked about difficult parents before but really its the payment that is the absolute nightmare to get out of them. I have a contract and so does my music teacher husband, but the absolute reluctance to pay on time is shocking. After using my husband as the 'debt collector' for years, I now set my face with pursed lips similiar to my old French teacher from grammer school, and I dont speak for at least 1 minute. I practised this in front of the mirror for ages after reading a piece on assertiveness and it has worked. Either that or my face has acquired the 'lived in look that comes with age' I also have a payment book which I am quite happy to get out and go through in front of them to show the attendance, non-attendance, payments made and payments not made. This has shocked a few into paying on time as its a bit like a school register.

I also do the odd child during Easter hols but I ask for all the money UP FRONT! If they want me, then pay for me otherwise I am quite happy to put my feet up and eat Easter eggs.

Have you considered charging by Standing Order? Most of my students pay me that way and it really does stop of lot of problems.

I teach in term time but the fees are worked out annually and divided by 12. The fees include books, papers...everything except the exam fee.

Money isn't mentioned. I don't have to ask for it, they can't make excuses. I get the same amount of money in holiday time as I do term time.

I can give them books at will, I can take them back if they don't work out well. I hate talking money

The parents love paying this way and complain that siblings guitar/saxophone etc teachers don't do likewise. I like getting my money at the beginning of each month. I like getting money in the holidays, even though it means I get slightly less in term time. They like not having to find change, write cheques. It's a win/win situation.

Or you could take up smoking and drinking alot...that ages you rapidly.

Inforcing cancellation fees is a great one. The first time I did it I felt guilty... not anymore.

So my pupil from yesterday had to cancel a lesson a month ago because her mum was ill and she couldn't get to a lesson. The mother rang up the day aftewards sounding ill, I wished her well, mentioned the cancellation fee and bingo the cheque arrived in the post within a week. When they both arrived yesterday, I asked whether Mum was better. No problem with cancellation fee at all.

£23.00 is nearly a pair of childrne's shoes, I cannot afford to throw that away at whim. My contracts have enough "get out of gaol" clauses on them. People do understand they have to eat too.

David,

I empathise with you. We've all had those days. But I hope that from all the good advice given you'll be able to manage better in future. But don't become skeptical towards parents, we all need to see from both sides.

I get these "postponing" of lessons quite often too, mostly from parents who are or have become personal friends. But what can you do? It's too awkward being "official" (although I think that would be more professional) so I just let it be - but with new students, I try to make it clear by giving them a form that states all the terms and conditions (politely), and hopefully they adhere to it. One just can't help if others are less considerate of oneself.

Just think of those who pay you on time, who let you have a free hand in teaching, and who appreciate you for teaching their children. I'm sure you get those sweet parents, too.

Although I think I might consider a cancellation fee of sorts. ;D

Kind regards
Sharon.

If you decide to go for a cancellation fee, or make it a condition that you charge for missed lessons, then go for it, but do know exactly how you are going to do it.

Decide how you are going to introduce it and how you are going to enforce it. If you're wishy washy about it, then you're not going to get it. Not only that, when you really need it, it will be hard to prove you're serious.

Moving over to Standing Order and charging for missed lessons has gone to be one of the best things I ever did. It really freed up my mind of bad feelings and insecurities. Leaves me to get on with the business of teaching.

Louise, do you charge by standing order for both peri and private work?
How does it work with peri work?

Thanks.

Just the private work.

Having said that, the schools I teach at do pretty much the same. I have arranged with them to pay me over 12 months...same amount each month. I get paid if school is closed, the children are on outings or if I am ill (which is rare anyway luckily). I get paid in August!

Because of this I know exactly how much I will get from my school and private work regardless of what I'm doing. It's very useful as you can imagine.


Oh...I should add, that the parents pay the school and the school pays me. I don't work for a music service.

Sounds like a good arrangement.
Thanks.

It suits me well. It was scary asking though.

I was being paid under the going rate, and I asked them for a 100% hourly increase, plus pay regardless of whether I'm teaching or not.

The first school said yes, so I asked at the other two who also agreed.

Okay....they didn't just say "yes", they said "we'll have to ask at the next meeting". Following September, there it was.

I was amazed to be honest. Though I had approached them as if it was obvious that they would want to do this, I really didn't think they would

Wear a wig?

I've had to go down to using font size 9 to get them all on one line!

David

My daughter and I share a 1 hour lesson - 30 mins each. I pay cash weekly. I have missed 2 lessons recently through illness and my daughter went and took her 30 mins. I sent the full amount to my teacher without question. I may not have been able to be there, but I had still "reserved" that time and i reckon he was entitled to his money whether i turn up or not!!

Wouldn't have been able to show my face next time otherwise!!!

Thanks for your replies. I don't think I was particularly looking for advice - I've been teaching for 6 years so know most of the tricks of the trade by now - I think this week has just been particularly annoying so I was having a rant!

David

What are they all....what do they all mean...how long did it take you to get each one...? just curious.

Hmm, and I'm wondering how to politely point out to my son's teacher that she's far too cheap, far too good, not strict enough, and she's being taken for a ride by other parents. One parent practically uses her as a ###### babysitter!! This is a woman who studied at the conservatoire di Milano and speaks 3 languages.

I really admire you teachers. Don't you worry about your blood pressure?

Steve

And use A3 size paper


Fairynuff. We all need that at times eh.

I work on a monthly basis - I wouldn't dare ask pupils to pay for,say,10 lessons in advance,although one of my old teachers did that, and sometimes it works out 4 or 5 days in each month.

I have considered SO,but I'm pretty sure the 1% of bad payers I sometimes get would find a way out of "doing" me! 99% of my pupils are fine with payments. There is always the odd one that spoil it for everyone else. I also let them get their own books,but have some in stock for emergencies.

Thanks for your advice though.

I don't ask for 10 lessons in advance

They pay monthly. I get Septembers fee in September.

When someone rings me and says they can't make the first lesson of the term I thank them for letting me know and then send them an invoice for 10 weeks anyway. The law is on my side, a dentist could charge for an appointment missed and so can I.

If they "forget" their cheque book I tell them they can pop the money in the post, or the letter box before the next lesson "so I can teach you next week".

If they don't like it they are quite welcome to leave. When someone leaves I have perfected the completely nonplussed "that's a shame, have a nice tennis season, cricket season, party" face that I saw in the corporate world when people said they were leaving. I soon fill my gaps, the phone has been known to ring just as I have put it down from someone who left.

Some people are just hopeless, even when you have your money. I got 10 weeks money from one man and changed his time for him (he had been coming at the crack of dawn on a saturday), he came 3 times out of the 10. He has asked to change his time again not surprisingly.

I know the sort, and it sort of annoys the brains out of me that they cant be sorted out so we dont get so many sorties to sort

I pay nearly all of my children's music lessons termly and I invoice my pupils half-termly...send out invoices one week and they pay me the next. Thankfully, I haven't had any problems with the parents yet (apart from when they think they know when I should enter their offspring for an exam!). I used to pay my daughter's violin teacher weekly and a right pain in the neck that was!!! I had to have a cheque book or case on me and i was often running close to time. Thankfully she now charges monthly. The piano teacher my daughter and I have charges termly... but I pay one of the bills at helf-term so it's not too much at once. She will alter/swap lessons if there is a good reason (school play, holiday etc) and doesn't charge you if you give her notice (i.e before the beginning of the term) of holidays. She made it clear that she will charge for lessons missed for naff reasons ( wanting to go to play at a friends etc) You can't get fairer than that . She and all us music teachers have a right to know what money there will be coming in. At the beginning of the lesson there is no faffing around with money. Great !!!! But standing orders ... that sounds like an excellent idea.... I have to say my girls have dancing lessons... I pay those termly and the bill is high (over £200). We get no refund for illness and holidays. But the teacher is well qualified, has her own bills to pay so why shouldn't she charge for classes the children miss for no fault of hers?

BTW Ringaringa.... dentists can't charge for broken appointments anymore.....

Most of mine either pay weekly, or in blocks of 6 or 12. These blocks don't necessarily have to conincide with the school terms. Some paretns find it easier than trying to remember the money every week!

David

Really? My dentist has got the 'you will be charged' sign, though he has never charged me for cancelling. I didn't know they weren't allowed to charge anymore. Is that what you're saying?

Anyway, I don't feel guilty when I cancel my dentist appointment, as he fills my spot with a click of his fingers. He always has people waiting for an appointment.

Not quite the same thing as the teaching business where people aren't queuing up for just one lesson.

One thing though, I never refer to the fees being for lessons. Their fees cover a number of things, including that slot in the week whether they come or not is entirely up to them.

My dentist charges for missed appointments and like Louise quite rightly points out,dentists do not operate in the same way as private teachers. The pupil slot is theirs and no one elses. One cannot pluck another pupil out of thin air to fill that slot for the one week!

It isn't just about the lesson. It is the time,overheads and so forth that is the issue. Some parents cannot fathom this out or they can,but are just too mean to pay. If I cannot rearrange the time,they pay. Simple as that.

Yes, you have definitely done the right thing! I had a similar problem with a foreign parent who refused to pay a term fee in advance. He wanted to pay weekly and I wasn't having it. In the end, I gave him an ultimatum - either fees for a term in advance or find another teacher. I sent him a letter telling him I was discontinuing their tuition and I was under no obligation to keep their place as he refused to pay the fee for 10 weeks in advance in accordance with the terms and conditions. Like Semele's student, she was extremely talented and worked hard. She only had 4 lessons with me and has deteriorated since then - I have heard her playing at local festivals. It's unfortunate but he wasn't prepared to accept my terms and conditions and I wasn't prepared to compromise. I would take the same decision again and out of the hundreds of students I have taught over the years, he is the only one who had a problem with paying a term in advance.

PM for you.

I bet music teachers would commit minor flesh wounds to have more pupils like you!!

I teach a brother and sister one after the other. When one is ill the other one has a double length lesson.
They love having the extra time.

I do that too with siblings. It's a good arrangement.

I remember once having to cancel a student myself when I had a hospital appointment. In the usual way I would have had them on Sunday...but this time that didn't suit them.

The parent wanted to pay me for the lesson that was missed even though it was going to be missed because of me! She said that it wasn't my fault the hospital appointment was at that time, so why should I be short of fees.

I didn't take it...but boyo. A very kind thought don't you think

To clarify the dentist thing - this is NZ law. They can't charge if they fill the appointment with someone else, but I wouldn't be able to fill the spot, unless someone wanted an extra lesson before an exam.

Going to finish my wonderful pupil tonight...because of his mother. I feel very bad about it but it has to be done. This money situation is always going to raise it's head and I've had enough.

I will update this evening.

[
I teach a brother and sister one after the other. When one is ill the other one has a double length lesson.
They love having the extra time.
[/quote]


This is exactly whay I do with my girls whenever possible.

I had one like that a while ago. She was an absolute nightmare; always waited till late in the term to pay, and then would only pay for the lessons her child had had. The child was bright and well-motivated - but the mother could be very unpleasant indeed - it could not continue, although for the child's sake I kept going probably longer than I should have ..... I imagine the child was told some lie about how it finished.
I wish you luck in sorting this one.

Thanks for your reply,Maggie.

Things went very bad and I don't want to discuss this further on a public forum. Just to say the mum is very shocked and upset and still doesn't understand what I'm talking about. I explained with an important issue such as this,it wouldn't have been appropriate to discuss this over the phone.It needed to be face to face.

Although I have given her another local teacher's number,she said her boy will not be continuing lessons.End Finish. There was no raised voices etc and they left,but came back and asked me to have another think and for me to phone her.

I cannot accept she will not find another teacher.She cannot do this to her son...HE IS ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT.

Feeling very upset and very down about this. But I did think very carefully and I know the money situ would have still periodically cropped it's ugly head up.And now with the events of this evening,I feel,even if we did resume lessons,things would never be the same again. The reason I have the Terms in the first place is that money doesn't have to be discussed.Believe it or not,I hate talking about money.

Perhaps I should have asked her to come round on her own during the day to discuss it. But I wanted to speak to the pupil myself.Things didn't go quite to plan.

Totally and utterly fed up.

Sorry to hear it didn't go well. I don't know what I can usefully say, really. However difficult, there are some situations that you just can't live with.

I hope she reconsiders and finds him another teacher.

Oh Semele,

I'm really sorry it didn't go well for you. I am sure when she calms down she will get another teacher for her son, or he may well resent her for it when he gets older.

All the best
D

Yes and we practice each week as well!!!!

did consider doing double lessons but my daughter wasn't keen at the time. Mind you I also have a load of theory papers for marking so that money is well earned!!!

elizabeth

Maggie and Digby

Thanks for your replies.

I'm feeling a bit better now.I spoke to Noodle on the phone last night and mentioned it to David too. Both think I have done the right thing.

So it is time to move on and not dwell.

One thing that does come to mind is that when they moved to this area,they had already been to another local teacher and I wonder whether perhaps this is why they left.

But -it is time to move on and not dwell.

I do sincerely hope the boy finds another teacher and makes good progress and this teacher can handle the mother.

I had a pupil like that once. Honestly some mothers... In this case the mum had reason to be protective over child, but she just went too far. Irony was that the pupil made a lot of progress with me.

Another one cancelled this week after learning for year. Excuse being, she wanted to save her money in order to help the Cambodian street children if you please!

David

What a line!

I had a little girl who decided she needed to stop lessons so that she had more time to play with her little sister.

Andy