Hi, I'm wondering if I should change my viola teacher. I passed my Gr7 exam last year in August, and have been learning the Gr8 pieces (or rather piece) till now. I've been learning the scales and arps, but only one piece so far, Schubert's Arpeggione. I've learnt less than a quarter of the piece and my teacher says that because I've not been playing 'up to his expectations' he doesn't want to teach me more. So for 6 months I'm still stuck at the first few lines.
Anyone who's seen the piece will know that its pretty long and I'm getting really discouraged because if I'm taking the exam next year I should have learnt at least one piece. My teacher agrees that the piece is tough but he finds that that's the challenge, and also since the piece is quite beautiful, insists on getting me to learn that piece even though its so tough and I'm taking like eons to play it according to his standard. Though some would argue that the teacher would know what the student can play, I'm really quite sick of playing the same few lines and hearing him say the same thing every week. Plus when I told him that I am unable to 'imitate' the recording of the piece, ie I can't get the bow control correct after listening to the recording, he told me that I'm making excuses for myself and kept using it to reprimand me in the subsequent lessons.
He also spends half the lesson talking, so I only get to really play the piece for 15-20 minutes, since I have to do some scales and arps as well. I'm getting really frustrated with my teacher.

Would like to find out, does anyone have teachers who teach that way? Some have suggested that I tell my teacher what I think, but I have a strong feeling that he'll just say that I'm making excuses again, and won't get to hear the end of it for the next few weeks again.

Also he's been telling me (and his other students as well) that he has a lot of students on his waiting list and if any of us decided to stop lessons we won't have a second chance with him again. Last week I cancelled one lesson because I was out of town and he gave me a warning about quitting my lessons. And I can't remember the last time that I cancelled any lessons

If you can find another teacher I would change. I would be horrified as a parent if either of my children's teachers had them working on the same few lines of a piece for 6 months. Are you doing any other pieces or studies? if not you must be bored to death with the piece and are indager of taking such a dislike to it that you're likely to get a mental block about it.
My children don't take every exam one after the other but they do learn a lot of repertoire along with technique so they're making good progress. Coulkd you leave the grade 8 pieces for now and just learn some other repertoire? you might find it easier if you leave it for a while to work on something else.

So he started you on G8 pieces directly after your exam and you've been working on the first few lines of one piece ever since?!?!?!

I agree with stringmum. Change if at all possible. That's an insane way to teach. If he expects you to jump straight into playing G8 when you've only just done G7, that's madness and making you work on a few lines of one piece for 6 months so you're dying of boredom is madness. You need to do other rep in between and work from G7 to G8 standard, expecting you to jump up and just play G8 stuff perfectly is stupid. If he has such a long waiting list, let him inflict himself on a new victim.

I agree with the others. You need to find a new teacher, and fast.

You are not a machine on an exam-results production line. You are a musician, and you need to be making music not just repeating the same few bars over and over.

Best of luck

Katyjay

A teacher who works in that way is asking to lose their students. Apart from the boredom factor of keep repeating the same old thing week after week, it's also demoralising. Nothing has to be absolutely perfect before moving on, refining technique and your playing comes with experience, not churning through the same material for months on end. I would definitely change teachers if I was in that situation.

The Arpeggione is one of the golden standards of viola repertoire; something that is made more apparent by the fact the first movement is set for both Grade 8 and DipABRSM, and the complete sonata (of which the first movement is arguably the most technically challenging) is set for both LRSM and FRSM.

In short it isn’t an easy piece. You say that your teacher has been doing scales and arpeggios with you which is great, it’s bound to be building up your standard and instructing some technique. I can see why your teacher is taking so long over the piece, to get it just right; although I have to agree 6th months rather excessive. If you don’t mind me asking how often do you practice, and how to you practise?

I’ve experienced this style of teaching before and have found it is the best. I remember playing the opening four bars of the Beethoven ‘Pathetuqie’ Sonata for the whole of a 45 min piano lesson. My teacher was aiming me to get the right style, articulation, and every part of the music spot on and faultless. I can remember thinking at the time ‘God that was a waste of a lesson! She’s ripping me off’, but looking back now I can see it did me the world of good: I’d focussed so much on those four bars that the feeling, emotion and touch that the opening of the movement required were implanted in my brain.

I’m not taught like that on the violin and viola, although I must say I prefer the method. Its on which requires patience and a lot of hard work, listening to ever note, savouring every stroke etc. but I’ve found it worked wonders and changed the way I played. I stopped just playing tunes on the piano, and made each one a mini sonata; full of passion and emotion. I actually now use that approach when practising on my own, and will sometimes just play the same three bars of a violin concerto for 20 mins, until its just right.

However, if you feel that you’re not getting anything from the lessons, then perhaps look elsewhere. Everyone learns in different ways, and maybe this is not a style which works for you. You’ll probably also find because you are annoyed at your teacher, you’ll not respect him and not have the right attitude for lessons – you’ll come in with the wrong mindset and get very little out of your lessons. I’ve been through that with numerous teachers.

I think his method may be a little spurious if he’s getting you to emulate a particular recording. It has really annoyed me when teachers have tried that approach with me; its as though they don’t deem you musical enough to produce a well rounded phrase etc. My best advice is to listen to as many recordings as possible, and use what you’ve heard along with your own interpretation to make the piece your own.

Hmmm…..I think that’s about it! Gosh I do go on don’t I?

It's one thing when you're playing music that is at the right standard - violist's teacher doing this straight out of grade 7 is ridiculous.

Your teacher does sound very odd.
I think my situation is almost opposite: my teacher does nothing in my lessons but get me to play through my pieces once, with a lot of repetitious talking. She doesn't get me to play anything she suggests back to her until i get it right ever. she has not, in about eight years, spent more than one lesson (if you add up the few minutes every year) doing scales and arpeggios.
sometimes it seems as though i am learning more from the accompanist in one practice than i do with my teacher; why i do not know. (does this qualify a change in teacher, anyone?)
i would say that either ask your teacher outright how he thinks you are going to cope with learning the rest of this piece and two others, or change. he doesn't sound very attached to anybody so at least you don't have to feel bad about leaving.
good luck

Two things in this bit...
1. I don't think you need to spend 6 months preparing for an exam really, maybe absolute max 6 months, but if you plan to take your exam next year, you shouldn't be thinking about pieces already. It's good that you have your scales sorted, but you should always build repertoire and technique between grades, not just spend 12 months working on 3 more pieces. Waste of time and money. Change teacher.
2. When your teacher says it is tough, did you ever ask whether you should learn an easier piece? Maybe talking to him/her about it would help, because he/she might just be wanting something else from the lessons (to get your through exams, rather than make you a musician). I suggest you have a chat about what you want from lessons, and if you don't reach an agreement, change teacher.

With his warnings about waiting lists etc either he is actually hoping to prompt you to think about leaving by mentioning it (Could he be tiring of teaching? Prefers teaching beginners?) or he fears that you are going to leave and wants to make his teaching seem more desirable. Either way, I hope there is a good teacher for you to switch to.

Thanks for all the encouragement and replies, really interesting to know about your experiences.

To Mad_max, I did practice, but somehow it doesn't come out the way my teacher wants it. Most times, even though I practice, when I go for my lesson, the 1st time I play it, it won't be the 'correct'. Only after my teacher teaches me bar by bar during the lesson does it get done properly, and even then sometimes only. So lately I've kind of given up practicing, ever since that time he said I was making excuses about not being able to play even though I've listened to the recording. I won't mind if he teaches me bar by bar during the lesson, and I know how to control the bowing to get the music right, but he talks like half the lesson, and then the time available to be spent on teaching me how to play is really very little.

About the Arpeggionne being tough, yes my teacher mentioned that he had thought of changing the piece to a simpler one, but he says that the other pieces don't sound as nice, and also he likes the challenge of getting me to play that piece which is so difficult by normal standards.
Plus after learning that piece I can use the same one for the DipABRSM exam too.

And yes, he only teaches his students to do exams, as that is the most efficient way in terms of time, to get students to proceed faster to Gr8 or DipABRSM. He's definitely 'exam-oriented' instead of 'musician-oriented'.

This gets worse! I really hope you'll take the advice of everyone on this thread, as well as listerning to your own gut ( ha ha sorry!) instinct and change teachers as soon as you possibly can. Once you have, you'll wonder why on earth you stuck it out for so long with this exam-oriented loser.
You deserve better - go for it, and good luck!

So he thinks that the exams are the main aim of it all? Well that's really sad. Get a new teacher as soon as you can.

As has been said before, the Arpeggione sonata is a difficult piece to get right. I am working on it at the moment for my diploma. As it was originally written for an instrument with more strings than a viola, the fingerings are awkward in places. There are also a lot of mood swings in the piece which require maturity to understand. Is is possible that your teacher is expecting you to play it to a higher standard than is required for Grade 8?

It may seem like a good idea to learn a piece that you can use for Grade 8, DipABRSM, LRSM and FRSM but I think that by the time you start working for your diploma you will be totally fed up with it. So if you find it hard, change to another piece. You can always learn the Arpeggione sonata later. There are other good pieces that you could choose from, I am surprised that your teacher hasn't at least let you play through some of the other pieces for yourself to see how you get on with them. (The Hoffmeister Concerto on the same list sounds reasonably pleasant, and is much, much easier than the Arpeggione sonata). At your level you should be expanding your repertoire.

I am also surprised that you haven't even looked at pieces on the other lists. My first teacher was also fixated on exams, but I always had several pieces to work on at any one time (including some pieces that my teacher didn't know about, but that I just liked playing!)

It is really sad that you have given up practicing because of this, as you won't progress much if you don't practice. You need to discuss this with your teacher, explain that you have tried hard with this piece and explain how you feel. See what he says. I you aren't satisfied with his response start looking for another teacher.

I have a distinct dislike to the Exam treadmill.

If you are learning such a gem as the Arpeggione Sonata you should be appreciating it for the piece it is, not what exam it would let you pass.

At this level I would really consider changing teachers to one who interested in you as a musician rather than putting you through exams as if they are hurdles in a steeplechase.

..and it would be tragic if you ended up hating it

In a way, I imagine you're teacher has the best of intentions, to try and get your playing up to a great standard. He's also looking to getting you to do your Grade 8 and DipABRSM. However, I think you might be best moving. My old viola teacher (school lessons) had a narrow exam approach and tried to go from one grade to another without anything else. It got really boring and I was close to giving up. In fact, I quit lessons with him but decided to get one up over him.

He was a nasty piece of work and never really understood my ability, called me unmusical etc. He was under the impression that I might scrape a pass in Grade 6 which I knew was wrong - I could do so much better. So I cheekily entered myself for Grade 8 which I taught myself and got my violin teacher to accompany me for the exam and out with a distinction.

At the end of the day, if your not getting along with your teacher, or you're not getting what you want out of your lessons, the take some action. I've got a new teacher now, and we work on a consultation basis rather than regular lessons which really helps because of the amount of stuff I do in general. Just have a look around your area and get lessons lined up before you quit. Maybe get a few trial lessons with a few different teachers. Most importantly go with someone you like, you should see your teacher as a friend and they vice versa - its much easier for you to make up then when you have you're differences.

Yes I'm definitely looking out for new teachers! Does anyone have any recommendations? I'm located in Singapore though so the teacher has to be in Singapore... Send me a message if you do thanks so much!