Anybody have any opinions about this?
My teacher was wondering... and considering inflicting it on me at some time...

I had a brief exposure to this many moons ago.
I filed it under "good for the soul"...

I had this inflicted on me - I think it was a punishment treat for completing Czerny 101!

I did it when I was very young,
yes it helps a lot.

*hides* yes I used do Czerney..... I hated it sooooo much but it was "good for me!" When I'd finally finished the 101 excercises, my teacher came out with another Czerney exercise book, and I was like "nooooooooo!!!!" its ok doing them at first, but i used to get so mad whien i couldn't get them right!

When I got my new teacher, this was the first thing she made me do to combat my "poor scale technique", I mean the first trrwo exercises are just C major, fast, made to sound like a tune! Definitely Character-building!

I'm certainly no expert, but does anyone else think that such exercises are of slightly dubious value? Scales could be improved by practising the scales themselves, negating any need to learn new notes. Certainly, studies concentrating on particular aspects of technique are useful - but why learn something 'character-building' when there's good music available to be learnt, which would most likely have a similar improving effect, and then performed when mastered? Some of Bach and Chopin's preludes would be excellent studies, and might well be less irksome to learn. Anyone agree?

Good point but I think that the advantage of studies and excercises at the right level is that, note wise, they are manageable enough that you get the benefit of the excercise if that makes sense.

I like Czerny's 8 bar studies... nice and short!

My last teacher inflicted Czerny on me - 40 Daily Exercises. They were much too difficult and I could have spent the time better (and not so much of it) improving my technique on ordinary scales and arpeggios, which is what my present teacher is doing. I could have been learning some more repertoire in the time I spent on those Czerny exercises.

I do!

My teacher makes me play Czerny. Actually I think the exercises aren't that bad... they're definately more melodious than Hanon and some others...

I think they are good for improving your shaping of scales or something like that...

Can anybody tell me roughly what level pianists would be in terms of ABRSM grades when they finish the Czerny Op. 299 School of Velocity 40 exercises?

Son Viohazard's piano teacher warns that he needs to get through Czerny Op. 849 (30 studies, Technic) and Op. 299 and be playing "the sonatas" if he wants to study violin (piano compulsory second study) at our nearest music university in future.

Can't figure out whose sonatas this refers to, but can anybody give us some idea of what "post Op. 299" level would be? Want to try to figure out how it compares with requirements for second-study piano in universities outside Japan.

It is very dificult to work usefuly on these exercises simply because someone tells you that they will be good for you. But when you are attempting difficult repertoire and finding deficiencies in your technique, that is to say your dexterity (as I am doing now) then those deficiencies have to be repaired somehow.

It is then that you realise the true value of these excellent works, and have the motivation to master them properly.

As for what grade you will be when you have mastered the lot - what a strange question. You will not be any level of pianist at all because you still will not be able to perform any music - which is the whole point of learning the exercises.

However. if you can realy play all of them properly, then there is no limit to the dificulty of the pieces you could start to learn

Yes, I know it's a strange question! But that's the way Japanese piano teachers gauge the level of their students - grade exams are not very common, so teachers refer to their students as "Beyer level" or "Czerny 30 level" or "Czerny 40 level".

I think that most students use what they call "The Sonatina Albums" along with the Czerny exercises. I'm pretty sure this refers to a collection from Japanese publisher Zen-on.

The first of those albums starts with material from Clementi 6 sonatinas, and Kuhlau 3 sonatinas and ends with a Haydn "andante" (from what????) and Beethoven op. 49 (Piano Sonatas 19 and 20).

The second album goes from more Clementi and material from Kuhlau 6 sonatinas to a Diabelli sonatina op. 151

I think those are studied at the same time as the Czerny 40. Then students start in on the Czerny 30, and possibly at that time start on "The Sonata Album".

If that is Zen-on's "Sonata Album", that would mean Haydn sonatas ops. 27, 35, 36, 37, Mozart sonatas ops. 5,11, 12, 15/16, Beethoven sonatas ops. 9, 10, 19, 20, 25, in vol. 1. And in vol 2, Haydn sonatas ops. 28, 40, 49, Mozart ops. 2,8,13,15/18, Beethoven sonatas op. 1, 8, 12, 14 .

So I think that this vol. 2 set of sonatas is the level that is in question. Sorry if I wasn't clear yesterday, I just realized it must be the Zen-on collection (hope I'm right!).

I think the crux of the problem is that the piano teacher was OK with getting son from zero to the end of the Sonatina album in 4 years in order to meet one set of audition requirements, when suddenly the violin teacher changed the goalposts, and the piano teacher wonders if he (the violin teacher) realizes how much higher the level required for second-study piano audition is...and suggested that we look into the possibility of studying outside Japan more seriously!

So if anybody knows what level that second boldtype selection of Sonatas is, I would really appreciate having some idea. Sorry to be so wordy...

Good Grade 8 to DipABRSM level

Aargh! For an AUDITION for SECOND STUDY piano????

Thanks for the speedy reply. Let's hope that the piano teacher is wrong, or I've got it wrong, or something. I'll pipe down now, as I just remembered that this started out as a thread about Czerny...