Hi everyone,
I need to get a new bow and I'm going to London on Saturday to have a look, it's just that I don't actually know what I'm looking for and whether the bow is any good as I've never had to buy one before! Just wondered if anyone had any tips or things to look out for.
Thanks,
Jess

Never buy something on the day - good shops will let you take them away to try for a week or so. Do that.

Might sound silly but remember to take the violin with you so you can try it out. I have to get a new one for my daughter soon.

Try loads if you don't know what you're looking for, as you'll then find out what you like and what you don't. It might also be an idea to bring your teacher or someone who plays viola with you so that you then get a second opinion about what's good and what isn't.

Also, what Bohemian said, don't buy on the day; take several home that you like to try and then make your decision after a few days.

Jess, what sort of playing standard are you and what's your budget?

Liz

Jess,
Alternatively, you can try elidatrading if you like. We got a bow after letting the teacher tried a few when sent to us by post. It's a lot more convenient. I don't think it' a good idea at all to just buy from a shop in London UNLESS your teacher is coming along to try them with you. Like Bohemian said, it's best to ask them to let you take some away to try out. On the other hand, if you are already playing at grade 8, you may well know how to test them yourself!

That was a very lazy post earlier. Having just been through buying a bow, I will post again I think...

You should check every bow for the following things:
- warping (look from the frog down the bow, if it bends at all, you don't want it)
- balance (play some long strokes - does it feel heavy at one end?)
- condition (check the slide isn't worn out, it costs to replace it, check the varish hasn't come off on the stick at all, check there is enough hair for it to be performing well, otherwise you might not be hearing its real sound)
- prettiness (yeah, it matters, and we all know it, if it's prettier, they might jack up the price a little, hence i ended up with a boring bow, on the other hand, pretty is pretty...)
- weight (if you're small, or lack stamina, consider a lighter bow, but also ensure it's not too light for your style)
- bounce or shiver (most bows have a "shiver point", which takes a while to tame, you might want to avoid if you're not used to it)

Then when you play it, specifically try the following things:
- legato, paying attention to the balance, and sound at the frog and tip
- spicatto
- up-bow stacatto
- riccochet (I found this a really useful test)

Right, hope that's a bit more useful.

Thank you all very much for all your help. Liz-I'm grade 7ish standard and don't have the biggest budget in the world (being a student ), so am looking for a good quality bow but not one that costs the earth! I will ask my teacher if she can come with me because that would be very helpful, but she's on holiday for another 2 weeks so I'll have to get a spare one. Taking them home and trying them is a good idea, I think the place I'm going to offers that anyway so that's good.
Thanks again(and thanks for the checklist bohemian),
Jess

Being coy about your budget doesn't much help in terms of giving sensible advice.

Are you saying that you are completely without a bow at the moment? (I may have misunderstood). Seems to me that unless you're made of money (and as a student you aren't!) then buying a spare bow for the sake of a couple of weeks is quite counter-productive. Any specialist shop worthy of the name will let you take bows on approval for that length of time, do that instead of buying a "stop gap" spare - realistically, most spare bows hardly ever get played, really most of us only use them when the main bow is in for rehairing.

Liz

Absolutely true. My spare bow is the one I had as a student at music college and while it's tempting to go out and look at others, at the end of the day I'm not likely to chop and change which bow I use on a daily basis. The only real reason someone might have two really nice bows, is for investment - pensions aren't going to be worth a light, so stocking up on the instruments and bows would at least guarantee a cash return when you sell in the future.

Hmm, dangerous as it is for me to to contradict a pro. violinist....

I have a violin playing friend who has two good bows, one of which is slightly heavier than the other. Depending on the set of strings he has fitted, and the size of room in which he's playing, he uses the bow which gives him the right sound. Is this not normal? .

I think the "two good bows" is the giveaway here. Most if us have one good bow (or better than the other at least) and a spare substandard "my old bow which I upgraded" bow. So there is no competition which to play with.

If I had the luxury of affording 2 good bows, I might still stick with the one substandard and then get one really really excellent bow.

Well, in all truth, one of the bows was cheap off ebay - evidently the seller didn't quite know how much to charge . He still finds it competes with his actually expensive bow....

Don't rule out carbon fibre bows, either. Generally, if well made, they play every bit as well as far more expensive pernambucco bows (although many teachers and traditionalists will deny this out of ###### mindedness).

I bought a carbon fibre bow from Liz at Elida a while ago and I find it excellent - I play with it as a primary bow now instead of my far more expensive wooden bow - I prefer the weight, sound and feel and - having tested it against my teacher's bow which is worth a fortune, I have to honestly say that, at my current standard, it didn't feel like the difference between the two was worth thousands.

Ask Liz to send you some on approval and get some from a good shop too then have you teacher blind test them with you (sit facing the wall while the teacher plays) then reverse roles and see which bow consistently comes at, or near, the top of the list. Try to play at least one three octave scale, something with a lot of bouncing bow strokes, something with a lot of legato and something with harmonics (::shudder:. This will give you an overall feel of how the bows perform.

Good luck!

Allan

Don't always assume that the more expensive something is, the better it is. A lot of hte price is merely cosmetic purposes i.e. mother of pearl and gold windings.

To some extent I agree, but, many makers will only use such fine additions to a bow stick they consider worthy of such decoration. The better the pernumbuco and the balance of the stick, the finer the fittings. This is certainly so for individual bowmakers.

I'd advise you to get as good a bow as you can afford. When I upgraded my violin I though I'd be spending as little as possible on a bow; until i tried a really expensive one and it felt so good to play with. I was four times what I had wanted to spend. I still bought it becasue I knew it was the right bow for me.

As for how many bows, just get the one to start with. I started with the one good oblong stick when I upgraded my violin, and since have bought two more really good bows, and had one made for me. At the end of the day its pointless if you don't play on them. I have two round sticks and two oblong sticks, and becasue of the weight differences feel that there is some benefit in choosing between them. I also use on oblong and one round with darker rosin to give me more grip and a bigger volume, usually for soloistic playing; and the oblong and round with the lighter rosin for orchestral or chamber music. At the end of the day get a bow that suits your needs. Its silly to buy bows and not use them, or buy a bow and wish you'd bought the more expensive one. In my experience good quality bows retain their value, so go for whichever one you like. And for heavens sake see if you can take some away to try, its impossible to test a bow in 30mins you need to play with it alot more to uncover its potential.

It's certainly not abnormal, but one VERY good bow, plus a decent spare is really all that's required. Having to change my bow to suit the strings or conditions is not an additional concern I'd want, certainly not in an ensemble situation - I'd simply play my other violin . In all honesty, changing the bowing technique is often all that's required, unless it's distinctly different sound you want, such as authentic baroque.

Unless you use a different bow on a regular basis, it's probably not a good idea to start swapping back and forth anyway, as all bows handle differently and changing things at the last minute (if it's not an emergency) is not always a good idea.

Quite the opposite sometimes, as decoration costs money, so they stick's quality wont be reflected fairly in the price. My bow doesn't have any mother of pearl or decoration at all, hence it was better value than another bow which I nearly bought which was absolutely beautiful...but not as good.

Since somemore mentioned about bows here, I'll post this as well.

When I purchase a bow last time, the shopkeeper told me that one has to look at the colour of the shell at the frog in order to determine the quality of a bow? He told me that while shell is cheaper (RM60) and the coloured shell is more expensive (RM 200). If it is not even a shell, then it is a really cheap bow. Does it makes sense?

There are bows and there are 'bows'. Price will very often reflect the reputation of a bowmaker, especially if the maker is dead! Modern bowmakers (dead or alive) who develop a good reputation will command a higher price, while those who are new to the art and just starting out will charge a lot less for their bows - even if they sell through dealers. This is the reason a modern bow by a new(ish) maker can often be a very good purchase. Marco Raposo is one such maker - he produces excellent bows to suit a range of budgets and all the pernumbuco is obtained from resources which are being renewed.

I don't see how this can be true, because surely you are just getting better value for money if you have cheap/no decoration on the frog? My bow is lovely, and cost quite a lot, made by a good bow-maker, but has no decoration as the maker feels that in order for the cheaper of his bows to be good plaing quality, there is no point wasting the money on decoration when the sort of people buying it will not have a huge budget (it's for students and semi-pros, so not those looking to spend £1000+ or anything). I suppose once you get into the really expensive bows, the makers will use top quality for all the materials, and while you are paying a little more for the decoration, as a percentage of overall price is it not very much, and it would be a bit weird to see a really expensive bow which looks cheap. All the decoration seems a bit pointless to me really.