Hey all!

Not sure if this is particularly the right term for it... Basically, I mean where the left hand plays one dynamic, such as ppp, and then the right hand is doing something completely different, volume wise, such as sforzando. If you get what I mean...

Specifically, I am trying to get a diminuendo in the left hand and a crescendo in the right hand, and then vice-versa, but it's quite tricky. Does anyone happen to know of any exercises that can be used to help develop such an ability? The main problem is, unlike when the left hand plays offbeat note values to the right hand, you cannot really slow down the piece to get it right, as it is still just as difficult.

Now why do I get this sinking feeling that people will just say that it comes with practice...!



Anyway, thanks in advance!

~Wobby~

When I had a similar problem with a piece, my teacher had me playing scales softly with one hand and loudly with the other. Might help? At least if you're playing C major scales, you don't have to worry about the notes and so can just practice the dynamics, and it will hopefully get you using your hands more independently so then you can apply that to the piece. Obviously doing varying dynamics will be harder but I imagine the same principles will apply. Try playing soft LH and loud RH, then swap, then one hand steady dymanic with the other getting louder then softer, then swap again, and then start trying to do the opposing dynamics. All this on simple scales and get it good before you try applying it.

OK I'm not a piano teacher, but that is how I would practice it!!

Hmm... cool, could try that I guess! Might take quite a bit of practice though - not to mention I'm trying to get it up to about 160ish!

The particular piece is a Chopin etude, so I kind of guessed it would be a significant challenge, but it's always good to play pieces harder than the exam that you are aiming for...

~Wobby~

Eeek!

Yeah, well I guess you have to start small - discipline is all about doing something that you can presently do by direct effort (ie playing scales with differing dynamics) in order to eventually be able to do something that you cannot do by direct effort. Ie, applying the necessary technique will do a lot more good than just trying really really hard to play the Chopin. Your hands need to be trained to do it... start small

Hehe, I guess so - my current approach is one bar at a time, starting at a metronome beat of 60 and increasing a beat every so often...

Hehe, like the use of 'the' Chopin!



Not quite sure I get what you mean, I'm afraid...?

~Wobby~

Shorthand for "the Chopin piece"

A Chopin Etude? You brave brave lad!!! I'm too scared to touch a single one of them (well...maybe except Op.25 No.7 and Op.10 No.6 but even then... )

Which etude is it?!

QUOTE

Play the piece, but only actually sound the notes of one hand at the correct dynamic level. Then swap over.

Aah, cool, I'll give that a go...



It's Opus 10, No. 12...

Obviously not up to speed... yet! It's mainly just for practice for the left hand actually.

~Wobby~

I've just learnt that Étude too - for left hand practice. It works .

My advice would be to practice having independence of hands with dynamics on easier repertoire. The Chopin Études are technically difficult pieces, designed for experienced pianists wishing to push their abilities, and I wouldn't advise tackling them without having the ability to handle different dynamics in each hand well practised-in first.

To make a job of it, you have to hear the two hands - seperately - in your head - be really tuned in to yourself. It may help to imagine that for the softer hand, the pressure is comimg from your fingers, whereas, for the louder hand, imagine that it's coming more from your shoulders.

Not sure which piece it is (says the girl who is so terrible with opus numbers its atrocious ) but it might help if you repeated the playing in one hand, just a few bars or something, until you can almost do them without thinking, and then just add on the other hand gradually so you can concentrate on that one more easily...

I always find it helpful to listen to recordings of tricky pieces I'm learning, it just helps me REALLY know what it's supposed to sound like. I quite often do hands separate practice but use the recording as a kind of karaoke track, so I still hear what the other hand is going to be doing while I really concentrate on one hand.

Hehe, I'd guess I'd better make it clear that I'm not really learning this as part of repertoire, before I sound like someone that is trying to do something out of their depths - I'm just learning the first part for left hand, as part of my 'collection of skills'. Sort of trying to do this with the second of Scriabin's Seven Preludes - all in aid of developing the left hand ability. It's a shame that most pieces for left hand are about FRSM standard...! But yes, I do suppose that I really should start on an easier piece, though it still is quite a difficult technique.

Funnily enough, I always had this image that, because etudes mean 'studies', that Chopin used them to help his pupils develop skills - picture the scenario:

"Ah, so this is your first ever piano lesson then, yes? OK, we'll start at the basics. This key, here, is known as a middle C. And you see here? - 4/4 means that there are four crotchet beats in a bar... Now, let's see - ah, yes, we'll begin here with my first Etude, No 1, Opus 10 - we'll start from there, and then work our way up!"

Hmm... I guess that can't be quite right!






Hmm, yes, that should work!
As practice, I've been sort of trying to play C Major descending in the left hand diminuendo, and then ascending crescendo, and the right hand playing C Major ascending crescendo at the same time as the left hand is descending, and descending diminuendo as the left hand is ascending. If that makes sense. Basically, just a contrary montion with contrary metamorphic dynamics...

I can do it ok with a stable dynamic on both left hand and right hand, i.e. piano on the left hand, forte on the right, but when you have to make one get louder and the other softer if becomes a bit more confusing...





Heh, yep, the classic technique!
That kind of what I'm doing at the moment - I took Sarah's advice and decided on playing a C Major scale as the keys are easy, and then doing one hand at a time, but it kind of gets lost when you put the two hands together - I get all muddled up!





Yep, I'm doing that at the moment actually! Thing is, I just sit listening in awe and think, that's what I need to do! - but end up not being able to do it in the end!

~Wobby~

Do a little at a time. Do it slowly. Be patient with yourself.