It seems to me that most (if not all) concert musicians passed their grade 8s at a very VERY young age? Am I right in saying this?

Is it necessary to pass grade 8 young to be up in the ranks of the concert musicians?
When I say concert musician I mean "successful" concert musician.

I've just always wanted to be one and now that I've thought about it, at 15, I'm not sure this is a realistic ambition. Oh what to do!?!

You've brought up a very interesting and important topic.

Playing an instrument, but especially (I'm biased) the piano, is a great gift. It is something you can do if you're happy, sad, frustrated etc. and if you can do it then it is hard to imagine life without it. Just think about the majority of people who don't play anything - they're missing out on so much.

BUT

You have to be realistic in todays world.

There are probably 2 types of people on this forum and I look forward to reading a variety of replies - all of which are valid. The first are those who are studying music full time, generally younger but not necessarily. Putting your energy into music is worth a great deal, but unfortunately may sometimes be undervalued by society - just look at all the posts regarding teaching fees etc!

The second are those who are studying for personal satisfaction, family enjoyment etc. These, including myself, generally have chosen to follow a different career, but still manage to place music the centre of their lives.

The problem I can see, and experienced myself at a similar age, is that concert pianists still tend to come from the child prodigy section. Also, Asia - China, Korea etc. are turning out hundreds of concert pianists by the age of 11 or 12. They train them in a similar way to circus artists and gymnasts.

To compete with that is impossible. However, a technically perfect pianist who has no experience of life can hardly interpret passion, sadness, grief, anger etc.

I'm losing track here

Anyway,

I'd say keep to your dream - it may happen sooner or later (in my case i'm 30 and just thinking about doing some professional concerts etc.) but think about what else interests you. What career could you aim for that isn't piano? Could you face being a teacher, whether private or at a school?

I think this makes sense

Thanks for the reply, I fully agree with what you're saying.

I guess the main thing is that it just makes me angry how there are so many people who have the potential to be amazing, but by the time they realise they're that good, it's too late?

It seems to me that there are absolutely brilliant pianists out there, who may be, say, 30 odd, who want so badly to be concert musicians, but it's almost as if there is a priority for young young young people who can play, but they're just not.... Oh I don't know... I don't even know why I'm saying this..


I hope *someone* can comprehend what I'm trying to say

It may be true of some musicians who grow up in the UK music system either in the UK or in the countries served by UK examining boards. Some countries have nothing comparable.


No.


Still no!


I would never encourage anyone to look for a career in music unless they were sufficiently obsessed by it to feel that it was the only career that would satisfy them. If they love it passionately but are also good at other things and enjoy them, I would suggest that they pursue excellence as a musical performer to the limit of their ability but aim to earn a living in some other field, perhaps related to music, perhaps not. That way they can choose what to play/sing and who to play/sing it with, which is open to only a tiny handful of well-established top professional performers.

Follow this link to a very interesting interview with high-profile and very unconventional pianist Joanna MacGregor.
http://www.soundcircus.com/interview/interview.htm

Her bio does not say whether she started young. Maybe she did.

I've always said to my daughter - do not think of becoming a musician now but maybe later only if you feel you simply can't imagine yourself doing anything else other than music! Her teacher gave the same advice to all his enthusiastic students.

All things considered, she did not start young, wpg, as she started just be4 she turned 8 (double the conventional age) as many "top" violinists start at 3 or 4 and what's more, with a pianist for a mum or a violinist for a dad.

Im 16 just started working for my grade 8, no musical people in my family and I cant imagine having a carrer in any other area than music! Of course you dont need to have passed garde 8 when you were rediculously (sp?) young to be a good concert musician, I knw loads of people who reached that standard around my age and older

I hope it's possible to not be a progidy but still get a career in music - I certainly hope to. I did start early but didn't start really caring until late last year. At this age, it's easy to think that there are loads of people younger than you who are amazing - but I think when you get older it's less of an issue, and more of just how good you are in yourself. All I can say is that you should ignore other people who tell you that you can't make it, and don't be competitive against anyone but yourself. Just be the best you can be

Consider the British pianist, John Lill - a well regarded and a consumate artist.

He had learned all the Beethoven Sonatas by the age of 12.

Won the "Pub pianist of the year" competition in his youth. Good man.

That's the kind of benchmark I judge myself against.

In the UK there is a culture that teaches us from a young age that your goal in life is to get a job that earns lots of money - money talks and connections talk - and as a result, the arts, in general, are not as respected as they should be, and talent is not always nurtured as it might be in the less capitalist parts of Europe. Musicians do not earn the respect of the masses, and a young child who is obsessive about music can be considered, at best, a little strange by his peers. I think this is part of the reason why there is such a big gap between the absolute prodigies and the others who are simply "good at it". Unless you're a dead cert to "make it", then it's a non-starter - too much work for not enough money and not enough respect.

I've been playing piano since I was 8 and I'm grade 8 piano when i was 12. some piano say that i'm a very good pianist and have potential to be a great pianist BUT I know that i won't a world famous pianist like lang lang.
I made a dicision to stop having piano lesson last xmas because i know that i can't make a living out of it and i really don't want to teach full time. Its a tough world out there and they're millions of great pianist that can play music that you wouldn't even dream of play. There'll be millions of great pianist but only about 30 of them will famous and doing solo concerts.

So make sure that you think twice before planning your future as a pianist. Good luck.

It seems a shame that with such fast progress which suggests that you are really good at piano you have decided to stop havibng lessons because you don't see it as a career.
Don't you enjoy it enough to want to improve for your own satisfaction?

I know lots of musicians who took up their instruments "late" and still went to music college and are now earning their living from music.

Aim your sights high by all means, and try to be a concert pianist... but they are just the top of a pyramid. Good accompanists are always in demand and there will always be a call for piano teachers!

The trouble with child prodigies is that, once they're in their twenties and not cute any more, people tend to forget about them. People are impressed with their technical capabilities as children but they often don't have the maturity to really express the emotion in a piece of music. They are coached within an inch of their lives how to play a piece. I feel sorry for child prodigies who leave school early to have a concert career - if they're THAT good, what harm would it do to stay at school, carry on practising and improving of course, but also have a regular life!

Music colleges now look at the music profession realistically - they train students to have what's called a portfolio career. This means that you may do a few solo recitals, you may play the odd concerto with an orchestra, you'll probably do some teaching, you might play orchestral piano occasionally, you might have a few gigs playing cocktail piano in posh hotels, you might go on tour as a keyboard player with a tribute band, you'll probably do some accompanying... and all in the space of one year!

The age when you take Grade 8 doesn't matter at all!

I started playing when I was 6, and am only about grade 6 standard now, but I keep plodding on because I really enjoy it. Whether I take it up as a career or not is a different matter. There's always going to be people out there better than you, its the only way you can improve.

On the other hand, my best mate didn't start playing till she was 10, and at 15 has passed her grade 7 and is playing professinally. Proves anything is possible if you put you mind to it

I used to share flute lessons with a girl, who took up the Tenor Horn at about the age of 10 (so a bit later), but she's about 15/16 now, and came second in a Radio 3 young soloists competition, and is in the NBBGB.

Dont mean to hijack the thread or anything, this is kinda related, but what would you make of a person being turned down from a music course at uni for being overambitious? The person concerned has no interest in a career outside of music, but has been left with nothing to do/ no where do go (ar far as uni is concerned).

Wpg, I don't think it is necessary to pass grade 8 young to be up in the ranks of the concert musicians. Read about their lives and you will find there are those talented ones who started getting into music seriously at a later stage. If you start later, you may have to practise a lot more so it's up to you.

Your limitations sometimes exist only in your own head due to a lack of self-belief. All this talk about child prodigies in the media is rubbish! Really, believe me, it IS rubbish. My girl's schoolhead for example wrote to the LEA calling her one and so did 2 local reporters but we objected strongly and told them, it's all nonsense. We'll have to see when the article eventually comes out whether they take into account our very strong objections. Perhaps Mozart was a CP in those days. So what?! I don't live then so I can't tell you that but in modern times, you will see those so-called CPs are just trained very early as Leila Josef admitted herself to think and work super hard in a certain way. No big deal. HOWEVER, there are those talented ones who through sheer determination and a bit of luck/destiny but who aren't "programmed" in that way, still are VERY successful.

The MOST important point I'm trying to make here is - You can't change your childhood/past so why regret about it now? But you CAN shape your future so GET cracking now!

Tess

Being an accompanist (I’ve also heard it called “collaborative pianist”) isn’t a lesser form of being a concert pianist. The best accompanists and chamber music pianists have all the technical skills that a top solo pianist needs and other skills too. They have to have attention to spare to be aware of every note of what others are playing (or singing) as well as what they are playing themselves, and be alert to make the performance sound as good as possible if someone suddenly does something that isn't in the script...

As well as being able to interpret in their own right whatever repertoire they are required to play accompanists have to be open to someone else’s interpretation, and if necessary to put their own ideas aside instantly and adapt to the requirements of the moment. Ideally they will play in a way that supports the other performer(s) musically, without being too loud or so soft as to sound timid, and there will be a real sense of a musical partnership and conversation.

What do you mean by being turned down for being overambitious?

dacapo: I agree, the number of good accompanists is very small compared to the number of pianists, it's a shame that accompanists are often overlooked... a good accompanist is worth his or her weight in gold!

Sorry dacapo, I didn't mean it to sound like that - I absolutely agree that, to be a good accompanist, you need to be just as good as all the soloists out there, hence why at Masters level, most pianists choose between solo performance and accompaniment (or yes, collaborative piano, which is a much better term).

When I was trying to say (but didn't say very well) is that there are hundreds of opportunities for pianists out there. Many people assume that unless you become a jet setting concerto soloist, you can't do anything with the piano... I was just trying to point out that there are many other opportunities - completely forgot about chamber music as well!

Sorry if I offended you.

In my (humble) opinion, it is infinitely more difficult to accompany than to play solo, and I think accompanists are under-rated and underpayed. You not only have yourself to let down, potentially, but the soloist as well; you usually only get the music at the last minute, and you have to keep track of not only your own part, but the soloist's as well - in order to be able to compensate for any mistakes they may make. There are an awful lot of factors to focus on. Being an accompanist is like being an organist; you're only noticed when you get it wrong!

Thats as much as I know. That they said something about the person being ambitious/ or overambitious or something.......

It's OK, I didn't really take it personally, I'm just quick to make sure people don't under-rate collaborative pianists! There are some outstanding ones around, e.g. John Constable, the pianist of the London Sinfonietta. There's also wonderful chamber music repertoire involving pianists, not only all the duo sonatas with various other instruments, but works for trio, quartet, quintet and even bigger groups. Without involving other instruments there's lots of repertoire for two pianists at one or two pianos and since 1989 there has been a very unusual ensemble of six pianists called Piano Circus.

Opportunities already available, and new ideas waiting to be exploited by imaginative pianists...

My mum plays with the London Sinfonietta! I know John Constable very well - he is, in fact, my piano hero because he excels at modern music and yet he is also an amazing harpsichord player doing all that baroque figured bass nonsense!

Maybe I'll never be as famous as the big names - okay, okay, - or even as the less well-known concert pianists! but I've still enjoyed the recitals I've done, and although I'll never be able to play a lot of the really big and technical repertoire, I still think I've got something to say through my music......

One of the wonderful things about music is that a performance of something that's technically very simple can be so satisfying and enjoyable for both performer and audience.

I agree - I'm not famous at all (well except in Swanage!) but I still get to do recitals and accompany recitals and play for shows and ballet classes and teach piano and make my living from it. It is not necessary to be a concert pianist - personally I wouldn't want to be!

Thank you so much for allllllll the replies! I really dont know what to say now, everyone has completely opened my eyes to the world of music, piano and everything... in.. between.


Anyway! I was thinking today about how I really want to run an orchestra. and I was thinking about how disappointed me and my friends are with the school orchestra at the moment; our teacher is not very good, she always blames me for that fact that she's speeding up, so when I resist and stay the same speed while she gets faster, she tells me I'm not staying in time with her. How annoying.

So my new ambition is to be a music teacher. But a good one.

I really would like to be a concert pianist but I despite all your encouragement, I honestly don't think I have what it takes...
Never mind eh?

Which reminds me, why does everyone keep saying "those who can, do. those who can't, teach?" where did this originate? Is it true...??