Hi everyone,

I have very loose/double joints, as is common in people with my back condition - there's some sort of link with collagen disorders. Anyway, I had thought that this was an advantage when playing musical instruments, because it means I can really stretch my fingers - I've found this very handy when playing the violin and cello and tenor recorder

However! My oboe teacher says that this is a disadvantage really, because in some situations the fingers don't naturally sit as they should, and you have to work to make them stay in place. And as far as playing the oboe goes, she's right For instance, I have to tense my fingers up to play the oboe, and they don't just fall naturally into place like my teacher's do. If I let my fingers relax into the position they want to be in, then I'd drop the oboe, whereas most people's would naturally hold it in place! I noticed that my teacher's hands were a lot more relaxed than mine and that's when she told me that she'd noticed I was double-jointed.

Also, I have always held my violin bow wrongly. My thumb doesn't naturally bend forwards as it holds the bow - if I relax it, it bends back on itself. I have to really tense it up in order to hold my bow correctly, so I have never bothered . I've just started playing the cello (thanks to Meerkat!) and was determind to make sure I held the cello bow correctly right from the start, but I just can't do it! My thumb continues to flip forward. Nb my joints are so loose, the top joint of my thumb can bend forward 90 degrees to the bottom joint.

I'm really quite bummed about this.....I want to look all relaxed and graceful when playing the oboe, and I don't want my tension to affect the music I produce! Also, I really would like to be able to hold my bows correctly at some point, so that I can do fancy bow-work and have better control over the bow!

Does anyone have any advice please? Sorry, it's a bit of a tricky one, I know!

Thanks!

Toni x

Sorry oboebunny, not much advice, just support from a fellow 'double-jointer'. I too used to hold the cello bow incorrectly, and my left thumb used to bend backwards against the neck as well

I've never played oboe, so can't really appreciate your difficulties; I do play recorder and have to hold it slightly differently to avoid dropping it too!

The other issue I've always had is on the piano. My handspan is quite large (for a short-a*s girl anyway...) but my little fingers have a tendency to 'lock' in place - especially during quick scale-y runs. I type on the keyboard only using the first four fingers as well...

I've not really found too many ways around this, other than finger strengthening exercises to try and build up the muscles supporting the joints - the are some decent physios around that can advise specifically. The trick is convincing the GP that it's worth putting you on the waiting list to see one!

Out of interest, what kind of collagen disorder? You can PM me if you like. I have one too

Hi Suzymac,

Thanks for replying, it's good to hear from you! I only recently realised that this is why I hold my bows incorrectly. I wouldn't have even realised I was holding my oboe so tightly if I hadn't been watching my teacher closely to try to work out exactly how she managed to make such a beautiful sound! I probably hold my recorders wrongly too, but I've never given it any thought.

I have severe scoliosis (curvature of the spine) and there is a lot of evidence to suggest that many cases of this are linked to collagen disorders, but at present we're not sure exactly how. Nearly everyone with idiopathic scoliosis has very flexible joints, and there's a theory that the spine grows curved because the connective tissue is too weak and loose to support it. Nearly all cases of scoliosis occur in teenagers, and become apparent when they reach their growth spurt, but I was born with it.

I have problems with my little fingers "locking" in place too, when playing the oboe. It's difficult to move them smoothly from key to key without them jerking, if you know what I mean? I hope this isn't going to be a problem cos there are FIVE keys for my lefthand pinkie to deal with!

Cheers! I hope your collagen disorder doesn't cause you too many problems.

Toni xx

Have Pm'd you

Hyper-extended joints are certainly a problem for a significant number of flute students I teach. It causes problems on the flute more than other wind instruments because we have to keep our right hand little finger on the D# key for nearly all notes. Those whose little finger bends back have problems with it locking or seizing up after a while, which causes problems when they need to lift it off to play D.

WE have loads of muscle/collagen disorders in our family. You should be playing the cello. Loose jointed dd. managed the cello to a very high standard, although she also learned the recorder to Grade 5.

Toni, we should have a chat about this next time we encounter each other at a forums concert. I have loose joints and particularly a very double jointed thumb. I''ve found that setting my top fingers right on the bow makes the bendy thumb behind the bow a lot easier to achieve. My daughter's suzuki teacher taught me how to do it (via a handy fairy story, lol! - I could tell you it if you like...). You might find that helpful.

I have a very loose thumb... it bends back whenever I hold my bow. Even if I bend my thumb forwards and make sure it stays put, sometime later it will bend backwards again so it's really frustrating because it affects my hand positioning and somewhat loosens my grip.

Violinma, thanks for your advice - I have just started picking up the cello, so it's good to know that my fingers won't be too much of a disadvantage there. The oboe will always be my main instrument though.....I love it so much. Having annoying bendy fingers could never put me off it

Meerkat - that would be brilliant! I'm sure that anything you can show me regarding holding a cello bow would translate quite easily to holding a violin/viola bow too

It seems that this is more of a problem for woodwind players than strings

Its also a problem for pianists. My top finder joints flex backwards, and this can really hamper good technique. The answer is strenghtening exercises. But as someone with Fibromyalgia I know that if you have a specific medical condition, you have to be so careful get this right or you just make matters worse.

My 5 year old has very flexible wrists, that is one of the reasons that he's started the violin. Apart from loving the instrument, the way he holds this arms and moves his fingers is so typical of a string player, and not a woodwind and keyboard player like myself.

I have scoliosis too; well, had (I had surgery to correct it a few years ago). But I'm not double-jointed (or in the least flexible) so I guess this is kind of irrelevant...

I'm not sure exactly what it is with my fingers. My bow hand is fine, nothing wrong with it at all. My left hand, or more precisely my little finger on my left hand is exceptionally weak, always has been. There's something dodgy with the joint, when placing it on the finger board it flicks, it looks very jerky when I look in the mirror. Also, it lies flat, nothing I or my teacher does can get it to bend, that includes forcibly trying to bend it when playing. So I've now ended up with a ton of strengthening/stretching excercises.