Look here

Guess he's sort of sussed the basics now

Jordan Adams now aged 10 here

Why don't I just give up now?! How are these kids so good?! It's so depressing!

Oh well....

As a stunt it's impressive; as a piece of music sadly not too much so (click on the link of the next person playing the Fantasie Impromptu for a (quiet) comparison...).

Having said that the boy is 8 so one would expect him to be struggling with it . Quite a good stunt .

.....My thoughts entirely......
Plus a few more 's

Oh...

my...

god...


*dies*

THAT'S INCREDIBLE!!!

I think this is a little harsh! The boy is eight, and one would imagine that he will acquire a little musical maturity over the next few decades...

Actually, listening to the some of the others, they are not above criticism, by any means - but nor are they eight!!!

Or have I missed something - and is this some sort of video trick...???

No trick. There's a few articles about him on the web including this one

A Piano Virtuoso at age 5

Wonder if he's any good at scales. Won't get anywhere in this world unless he can play his scales

Wow!

"You can do anything as long as you put your heart and mind to it, and boom it will happen," says Jordan.

I like this little boy's spirit.

There's a local boy in the papers this month who took up the piano (1st instrument) "late" as his teacher would say in his school year 7 (age 12 maybe?) but in 1.5 yr, he has achieved grade 5 standard and secured a place at Guildhall's Saturday music school. There you are - as Jordan said - You can do anything.... Not trite at all. Largely true if one tries hard enough.

he must have incredibly large hands for an 8-year-old...

i wouldn't have been able to play that when i was 8 even if i did have hands that size though!



agree - even the video of him aged 10 is a much more mature performance than the one of him aged 8!

*jaw drops open and stays open* Wow....

You can close it now. It makes drinking easier

I wonder how these youngsters learn this kind of stuff?
Are they really able to decode all those notes or is it partly by rote?

That's all part of the fun, sbhoa, I guess. Or, the wonder of it all. If we knew, it would not be news, would it? I don't think I'm boasting here but I was asked by a reporter only a few days ago how VN got invited to join the borough's junior orchestra after less than 2 months' lessons and also how she got into those 3 London junior conservatoires in such a short time. My reply was - I'm as baffled as you are, and, in fact, more baffled than proud. I really don't know but I do know she's very self-motivated and needs no supervision other than that of her wonderful teacher. I also voiced my reservations on the basis that it's early days yet that she's only a beginner, etc, but none of that is printed in the end. The reporters could have asked the teachers HOW in such cases but then they are only interested to "show off" the kids. Full stop. Thus we'll never know the hows or whys. However, I also think we all need to step back a little and just enjoy rather than start comparing ourselves or our kids with super starters - they may end up NOWHERE!

Is this a case of sour grapes?? If not let's hear you play the same piece. Post it on a video link.

This is no stunt the boy has talent and loads of it. He'll go far with the right kind of development.

As I commented (not on here) last night, it's not the most incredible interpretation of it... but boy do his hands move fast - it's impressive all the same


I don't think anyone's claiming he doesn't have talent... it's incredibly impressive that he could play the F-I at all at that age, and it wasn't as if it were completely unmusical by any means, but it's clever rather than (yet!) something one would put on the stereo to listen too - I suspect that this kid will get there one day if he wants to, & if he continues to put his heart into his playing, but he wasn't in that recording so why pretend he was? I agree with Cheebs, one can see development already in the video from age 10.

And I doubt AP has sour grapes, and nor would she try something beyond her capabilities just to prove it - she doesn't need to... If you doubt she's musical, check out her recordings on the forumrecording site - she plays beautifully and very musically indeed.

Not that whether one can play the piece has much to do with it - I certainly can't and I doubt I ever will, I'm not a very good pianist, but I can still see the difference between this 8 year old playing it and the musicality of the 18 year old I saw playing it on Sunday... he's pretty good for his age, she would blow him out of the water. It isn't sour grapes, it's just a realistic summary of where they stand artistically. I expect one day he'll play like that 18 year old, or even better - but he doesn't yet and why pretend he does? What he can do is an extremely impressive stunt - what he will be able to do in the future is a fascinating thing to wonder about.

How fantastic!

Jordan is impressive but I don't think the sensible reaction for us lesser ipianists is to give up. After all audiences would be small if you excluded all amateur musicians. You're in a better position to appreciate true musicianship if you have had a go yourself.

he's good!

I thought he was astonishing. Contrary to the above posts I think there's already a lot of musicality there.

I hate the way people are so quick to dismiss this kind of thing with an "Oh yes it's technically impressive but he is by no means a musician yet" which is one of the two usual reactions to this kind of thing (along with "I might as well give up now"). For God's sake, let's just celebrate it! We are so quick to find fault with things in this culture and, sadly, this is particularly true in the world of classical music. It makes me so cross.

Hear, hear, benjaminja!

Totally agree with you on that one. It's impressive and my jaw dropped as well.

If anything, it's spurred me on to try harder.

Wow! That's impressive! Don't think I'll become as good as that!

Car Expert

Sarah flute summarised it brilliantly: not sour grapes at all, as I said it is an impressive stunt, but just not as musical as others play it. As I said I wouldn't expect this at 8 either. I guarantee had he been 30 and done the same it would have been slated by anyone with a musical ear, well done to the boy on sheer determination and rote learning ; I'm sure he'll be able to make both a more consistent and musical performance of it later in his years . I'm quite happy to see others succeed; and I'm not one of these people who says 'oh, he's good I'll give up then', just giving a realistic summary of performance .

If people can enjoy it as a performance; rather than a stunt then good for them . There's little doubt that it's an impressive stunt. Maybe this is related to my thread about hearing the flaws in others' performances (I'm not accusing anyone specific here, but this is a good example ).

I'm not saying it wasn't musical, I'm just saying I've heard a lot more musical. As AP says, if a 30 year old played it exactly the same there'd be plenty of faults found. He's good, he's just not a concert pianist (yet!) - no one is saying he's not at all musical or that he doesn't have it in him - quite the contrary. As Cheeble pointed out, even by these two short clips one can see a more musical performance at 10, and I expect he'll continue to get better. His ability to just get his fingers round the music is astonishing and you can count me as suitably impressed, but at the same time I have heard it played better (and not just by professionals). For an 8 year old it's incredible that he can play it at all, and it wasn't unmusical, but he has room for improvement and saying that is just being honest.

AP, what do you mean by 'rote learning'? I ask because I'm not sure how this differs from other ways of learning piano pieces. Just curious.

Speaking as a pianist (though I haven't played this piece, but have done other Chopin studies) this is impressive for his age, yes, but as others have said there are lots of things that could be improved upon.

It doesn't have enough drama or melodic shaping. And realistically, I wouldn't have expected most 8 year olds to have experienced the kind of mood this piece portrays. He slows down at the 'difficult' bit so it loses intensity and momentum. There isn't enough finger contact on the keys or support from the bass. And he also moves about rather a lot when playing which I find distracting, and which is probably not good for his muscles and posture.

The second performance at age 10 is better technically but still rather mechanical and lacking in intensity. There isn't enough dynamic shaping to maintain interest or consideration of how colour changes with harmony.

Personally I've seen lots of kids young and older attempt pieces such as this, as they can easily impress non-musical people. But I really don't know if it's worth them working so hard to give an adequate performance of what is already over-played repertoire, when they could be really developing their musical skills on repertoire that is more appropriate.
There are plenty of kids my age who feel the need to survive only on a diet of showy Liszt and Rachmaninoff, with the odd bit of dramatic Beethoven thrown. But ask them to play Mozart and Bach and the true limits of their technique are discovered.

It's hard to describe but it's basically learning the music as a string of finger patterns and not really understanding it, a mechanical finger memory exercise, takes a lot of time and patience but can be done (and isn't really worth it!). I attempted to describe it (well more the symptomns of it) here, not very clear though! Of course a certain amount of finger training does necessarily go into learning piano pieces in the 'usual' way but it's nowhere near the robotic training of hands throughout.

Hannah, thankyou for a brilliant explanation, and clearly you can hear and analyse impressively people's playing .

Thanks for that response. I remember the earlier thread, now you've drawn my attention to it again. I'm interested because I find I have to work more and more on finger patterns to try and play pieces to the musical standard my ears require, but this results in better playing rather than worse (some of the time, anyway).

Oh, okay, I'm not at all referring to refining a piece to play it musically; just referring to learning the notes so that one can play it at all, as a series of finger patterns because the piece is too complex and one can't do it any other way .

I totally agree with Bj that we should enjoy and celebrate their success!

Not compare. Not pre-judge the future. Not assume they have been pressurised, etc.

Tess

Jordan is undubitably very good for his age to be playing pieces like this! Technique is impressive indeed.

I agree with Hannah. The Fantaisie Impromptu requires more dynamic shaping, and also more shaping of the melody which one has to bring out in the sea of semiquavers - even a tiny hint of rubato is desirable. Also there should be some sort of feeling that one is relishing the modulation to the relative major.

The Op 25 No 12 is extremely difficult to play because it involves playing 'broken chords' with both hands but in different inversions, e.g. the LH is playing in root position and the RH is playing in first inversion, for each broken chord at different octaves different notes fall on the beat, and also the quick shifts in hand positions up and down octaves. What struck me first of all is that although one has to accent the bottom notes of each series of broken chords as such, it shouldn't be at the same level every time and this is determined by the harmonic progression. The second thing is the crescendo and drama in the bars leading to the 'recapitulation' could be improved to increase the dramatic fiery effect. The top notes of the broken chords are not consistently accurate and the passages where one has to hold down the melody notes for their full crotchet duration - this was not sufficient.

But Jordan is doing very well regardless!

I'd tend to disagree with the argument that we shouldn't criticise. I think as musicians we should listen with a critical ear, appreciate the music that is good (good being subjective of course, but there are clearly some things which are undebateably bad) and hold that in the highest regard. Otherwise we'll end up like much of (and note I don't say all of through fear of a large stampede) the popular music world: many of those who are famous are not the best musicians or even good musicians necessarily, just the ones who are marketable or already known.

I'm not saying we should all go and email him pointing out his flaws; nor am I saying we should criticise people and be discouraging, it needs a good teacher who can do this sensibly, kindly and encouragingly. We certainly shouldn't sit there and say everything is good regardless of its actual quality. It's an important skill in it's own right, and I'm beginning to believe that very few people develop it. As musicians we should have opinions on the music we hear and be able to state why we like it, what could be improved and why we don't like it: surely a musician must by definition understand a performance by listening to some degree.

Before anybody judges young Jordan, I think we need to know why he’s playing in this video. Is this a formal recital or suchlike? It looks to me like he’s gone into a shop, played the piano, drawn a crowd and some guy has said “hang on whilst I get the camera”. It could have even been a piece that he picked up on his own the night before. Who knows.

Kids are smart. They tend to do what works. He’s probably learnt to impress the masses (especially his peers), he needs to play fast and furiously forsaking all other things. I think most teachers have seen this phenomenon especially in young boys. It doesn’t mean they can’t play it musically, just that perhaps he didn’t think that was required at that moment in time. He can possibly change his performance to suit his listeners.

Now had the man said “our next competitor for this years Young Musician of the Year….”, that would have been a whole different kettle of fish and perhaps would warrant criticism. We just don’t know.

I do teach a talented young boy who is nowhere near this gifted, but can play very musically. Put him in a public area with a camera and say “impress us”, and you’ll guarantee every little bit of musicianship will go out of the window before you can say “gone chopin”.

wow. Enough said.

Whether it's musical or not, and all other things aside, I just might pull this out if I need to one of my 8-year-old pupils - she is fantasie impromptu-obsessed, must be all those notes. It might encourage her to practise more!

I think that AP is also right. It's OK to criticise provided the criticism is constrcutive. However, Bj is right, too. He seems to be saying (not that we shouldn't criticise but) that we shouldn't compare/measure ourselves against unusually impressive talent AND talk/feel like failures on the one hand or dismiss such ability without further ado on the other.

Impressive fingerwork!! When I was 8 I was just getting to grips with Sugar and Spice!

Enjoying the debate... I don't know the piece very well at all, but am I missing a melody line in places?

good greif!! isn't it just sickening?!?!?!

Just my two pence, but the fuss over this 8 year old 'genius' seems a little unwarranted. The ability to move your fingers very quickly and vaguely in the right area does not equate with genius. Of course, all great pianists have fantastic hands, but we would never bestow any grand title on them unless they played musically. The same must be said of this 8 year old. I'm struggling to find much positive to say other than he's hitting mostly right notes, and sort of in time. It is far easier to teach technique to a very musical person than to teach musicality to someone techincally gifted. Secondly, his technique is not all that astounding, even for an 8 year old. I'm currently in China, and technical whizz kids are a dime a dozen here. I recently went to a concert of an 8 year old boy called NiuNiu (who will incidentally be playing in london in a few months time), where he rattled off 3 chopin etudes, Mendelssohn's Introduction and Rondo Cappricioso and Mozart's C minor fantasia. And most impressively, it was a musical performance.

Prepare to be wowed! I sure was when someone showed me!



http://www.arielpiano.com/Music/bach_wtciigmaj.wmv

http://www.arielpiano.com/Music/bartok_ostinato.wmv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32gsiqbjbk8...iano%20concerto



The boy is 8 1/2 and the girl is 10

Hey
excuse me but where are all of you finding the actual music .. I clicked the link for Jordon and got the news article but couldn't find where to get the actual recording

Oh boy .. he's 8 and can play it ... I'm 13 and I can't even find it to listen to

If you cut the 'at that age' then you have my opinion! Wish I could play it, but I can only note-bash through the first few bars at the moment! *adds to summer music list* I'll have to have another go sometime
I think it's amazing that a kid can play like that (although rather scary!) I know there is criticism and fair enough, but he's only 8 - I'm sure that there are many musicians who have only just started learning at that age (or later) so he has a lot of time to learn the finer details.

The Japanese girl's Mozart was breathtaking!

i have seen a 7 yr old play fantasie impromptu REALLY nicely before. its AMAZING.
i almost fainted when i saw him.

Absolutely! Who is she? Any one know?

One small gripe - nothing to do with the music. Why do they have to dress little girls so appallingly - all that awful white stuff.

She's Aimee Kobayashi. She was 9 when she played that Concerto. I believe she's in Juilliard now. I am quite amazed at her being able to stretch an octave at that age! I was only able to reach an octave when I was around 10 or 11. That being said, I have pretty small hands. 9 notes are the very maximum I can stretch lol.