Any idea what grade is this piece? Is it intermediate (grade 6 and below) or difficult (as in advanced such as grade 7 and above)? Thanks!

This is probably no use whatsoever, but it used to be a Grade 4 flute piece.

Assuming the arrangement is the same or similar for violin as flute... Probably about G5? Or G4+ It does have one high section, and has potential for a lot of expressiveness, BUT, the high bit isn't very long and the rest of it is fairly simple. So... my best guess is G5 although I think it's one of those pieces an advanced violinist could probably play and put a lot into/still get a lot out of... so I think it's probably a piece which wouldn't be a bad choice for anyone of G5+ who wanted something pretty and expressive...

It's a grade 6 cello piece just now. It might not be he same for violin as it goes into tenor clef on the cello.

Tess,

It was set for AB Cello Grade 6 in 1999-2000. Hope this is helpful.

Yep - The Swan is G4 for viola and (I believe) G7 for cello, so it's usually a couple of grades different I think.

And grade 4 clarinet! Not very helpful, but perhaps an interesting curio?

Hi Ellie,

Thanks for the reply! How's life now with your new baby?

Tess

Thanks, all. Just amazing sometimes when one hears primary school kids playing expressive stuff when their life experience in this country seems so protected/limited!

Hmm, Dvorak's Sonatina is another good piece (opus 100). Very popular it seems with parents. Janexxx also recommended it!

Any ideas, folks, what grade this is? I was told yesterday that it's a grade 6 piece but I've always thought it's a grade 5 one. Maybe I'm wrong.

It's important for me to know the level of difficulty (of very popular pieces) since I organise for kids to come and play together during the holidays. It'd be no fun to pitch things too high and a struggle ensues but boring if they are too unchallenging!

For example, I was quite shocked when I saw a come and play invitation from the top independent school in Essex to local schools in London which was pitched at grade 2 and above for school year 5 kids. It just goes to show what a low priority music REALLY is in local schools generally despite all the government propaganda. The only money there is seems to be only at a special level under the National Music and Dance scheme. Well, at least, there's something ...

So, any idea of the level of Dvorak's Opus 100 (a violin piece)???

Thanks!

Dvorak's Sonatina (opus 100) is grade 6 viola so probably grade 5 violin.



Edit: The first and second movement are grade 6 viola. The fourth movement is grade 7 viola. Should have checked properly. Don't know about the third movement.

The last movement used to be set for Grade 7 violin...

W

And the first movement is Grade 7 flute. It's interesting how pieces played by both woodwind and strings are set at such different levels, and not necessarily in the same direction (ie von Paradis is lower grade woodwind, higher grade strings, Dvorak is the reverse).

I am confused.

How can it be grade 6 for the 1st and 2 movements which are the popular "bits" for viola and grade 5 for violin? Are you sure? After all the violin and viola are comparables as musical instruments go.

Presumably it depends how easily it falls under the fingers on the 2 instruments -in terms of shifting positions. What may be an awkward run of notes for viola may be far more manageable on a violin. Possibly violin & viola are no more equal comparison than for instance a concert flute & an alto flute

Viola and violin are different instruments, just like the viola and cello or the violin and cello are. They just belong to the same family.

When music is transposed for viola it may become more awkward to play in terms of fingerings. Some keys are more awkward on viola than on violin and vice versa due to the different strings (e.g keys with C sharp in on viola require the use of half position on the C string which isn't learnt in the lower grades).

Also the violin only uses one clef, viola music usually uses two clefs (after about grade 5 or 6) and one needs to be able to switch between them fluently.

Sometimes when music is "transposed" for viola it goes up to the same high notes as the violin music, but obviously the viola is tuned a fifth lower so it means that much higher positions are required to play it. This may be done so that the publisher can keep their costs down and issue the same piano part for violin and viola versions (but maybe I am just being cynical).

A full sized viola (~ 16 inch) is also significantly heavier and more difficult to hold and play than a violin. Viola strings are thicker and less responsive than violin strings, so it requires more effort to play than a violin. Finger spacings are further apart than on the violin, so require larger stretches, and some fingerings that are used commonly on violins (e.g extended fourth finger) just may not be possible at all for some viola players.

Need I go on........

The Dvorak Sonatine, Op 100, is usually played ater having reached a very good grade 5 standard. It is around the level of the Vivaldi A minor concerto, possibly a little lower. Tess, I am sure VN could manage it if she so wishes. I played it about 4 years ago now, and thoroughly enjoyed my first "proper" piece. As the piano part is not especially difficult, I played it with a friend when we were 12/13, for that reason it is a useful one to learn early on as you can learn to play sonatas through it. I'm afraid I cannot advise on the Sicilienne though, never having heard it!

Purple viola, you didn't mention the fact that because violin is smaller, it requires slightly more precise intonation, and semitones in particular are more difficult to place than on viola as you have less space in which to place your finger to find them.

Thanks, Bo.

I have 3 girls who wants to play together. One has finished grade 6 work and is confident of a distinction to come quite soon, one is doing grade 6 work mid-way and one who is heading half way into grade 5 so the Dvorak is not one they can all play together.

Thanks, all.

The Dvorak is a fantastic piece - and has both easier and harder movements. So it might be one they can have a play on. To a certain extent, they won't know until they try - different people will have different strong and weak areas on their instruments, so the grade that piece is according to the exam boards is only half the story.

snap, it was my first proper piece as well. It really is fun to play.

Harry,

Why do people keep saying that it is their first "PROPER" piece? What's a proper and what's an improper piece? All I know is, VN's teacher said it's a grade 6 piece whereas my friends say it's a grade 5 piece.

Sarah's suggestion is cool. I let each child bring her 2 fav pieces provided it's not too hard for the rest and just TRY - the easier bits for/by one and the harder bits for/by another. The kids' abilities range from early grade 5 to grade 6 distinction std.

Tess

When I said it was proper I didn't mean in any way that any other pieces were 'improper'. I just always think of it as my first 'proper' piece because it was the first one I played all four movements of as a proper sonata (or rather sonatina) and then went on to play in a concert, which was a massive thing for me then.
I've just thought as well that the second movement is definitely grade 6 violin because my little sister's just played it!

Thanks very much, Harry!

I'm learning that piece at the moment on violin. It is G5 with the Australian Music Examinations Board.

Hope this helps!

Nope, G5 cello.

Since everyone seems to think it's a GREAT piece, well, I've finally ordered it. Was it originally written for violin or cello? I like both instruments a lot but maybe the cello, a bit more.

I feel ignorant - I don't know any of the pieces mentioned on this thread...

I bet if you heard the Swan you would know it immediately

Jane is right. We often don't know the name of a piece till it is heard/played and we realise with a jolt - hey, that's familiar - and we are told there and then.

By the way, what violin pieces do you play now, BJ, between your domestic duties?

My daughter has just had a violin karaoke party today and is now off to a nap. I'm afraid I corrupted her friends by introducing ABBA to them. They LOVE ABBA! Were jumping like mad folks including the brother. Unlike her, her friends normally have the opportunity to play non-classical pieces if these pieces form part of their exam sylb! VN is now looking forward to later this holiday week when we will get hold of the Guest Spot ABBA violin pieces for them to have a go. VN has been invited to a youth music festival and she's toying with the idea of playing an ABBA hit in the church instead of Dvorak Sonatina. Boy, won't they all be very surprised!?

Got to go. The kids (just now) ate everything in sight! Hence my domestic duties calling for me ...

It's grade 6 on the current cello syllabus. Must be one of those pieces that moves around a bit.

Yeah looking at the recent syllabus Le Cygne is G6 according to the AB


No idea which it was written for... sorry.

Hope VN enjoys it

Thanks, Sarah. Think she will. It has just arrived yesterday when she took it out excitedly, had a look and immediately said - Hmm, interesting. I think one of the movements look difficult...

Fairly sure the swan was originally written for cello.

Yes, it was, don't know about the von Paradis though.

What about Dvorak's Sonatina (opus 100)?

Violin & piano

W

Thanks, willobie.

I believe Dvorak wrote it for his children to play, as a "proper" piece (ie all the movements)

Jane, how do you come by to know so much about music in general? I wonder if it's due to the OU course you are taking. How is it coming along, by the way? Hope the workload is not too much. By the way, this is neither being nosy nor flattering! It's just great to know where/which site to research musical context.

I haven't consulted VN's teacher and it probably isn't necessary but I would like her to play Dvorak Sonatina in our church's autumn youth music festival. This is all for fun to encourage music making and one does not have to play to any great standard as the key is enjoyment.

Jane, Sarah, Bo, Willobie and especially, Harryjamespotter, please tell me, how long will the 1st movement take?

How about all 4 movements? Is 8 minutes enough for the whole lot?

Thanks,
Tess

I'll tell you when you empty your inbox No really, they're long-ish movements, I would reckon on the whole thing taken at least twice that long. The first or last movements work fairly well by themselves i think, the 3rd movement could possibly be cut (I know that's bad, but I always thought it was a bit rubbish so never learnt it properly and performed it with just 3 mvts) but 8 minutes would not be long enough. Maybe you could get 2 mvts in that time. 1st mvt is shorter than the 4th. Having not played it for years, forgive my inaccuracy, but probably about 4-5 minutes?

I don't remember how long it is timewise, but I would agree with Bo i think the whole thing is likely to be more than 8 minutes.

The first and last movements do make excellent pieces in their own right - the last is my favourite if I remember correctly.

When Perlman and Canino play it its 17 min 39 secs for the whole piece. If you want me to time the movements separately I can do. I'll just ask them to play it again!

Hmm, she had better not play all 4 then or she'll put teenagers off classical music forever! Some will fall asleep, no doubt. Let's hope she won't put some poor soul to sleep at the Barbican next week. I heard just 2 weeks ago that she'll be singing in a choir there for some London Festival. But I'm positive she can't sing. I should know, I'm her mum. But she ENJOYS these jazzy songs so much that, hopefully, her normally quiet and mild expression will light up her face/body and will somehow keep them awake!

Jane, how about just the first and last movement? Sorry for the trouble but how long will Perlman take to do either? Thanks!

Thanks to you, too, Bo and please accept my apologies for the full inbox. It's been emptied just now.

Tess

i'm sure she won't, they're all pretty lively but like everyone else has said it's definitely going to be over 8 minutes. My sister's playing it at the mo and has the music out already so i've just played it through. Roughly about
1 - 5 and half mins
2 - nearly 5 mins
3 - 3 mins
4 - 6 mins
I think the first and second mvt are usually played together for a shorter programme especially after they were orchestrated, and do go really well but it is a little over 8 minutes if thats what you are looking for.
Anyway hope that helps!

Snap. Funny hearing other people practicing something you know isn't it? I keep wanting to say "do this with this fingering" or "try this bowing" - hard to stop myself!!
I made it:
1st mov: 6 mins
2nd mov: 3m30s
4th mov: 5m15s
But I always take the last mov rather quickly.

Ok, thanks, Bo. Will tell the organisers I need 10 mins for the first two movements.

VN

Sonatina Opus 100, 4th Movement, was vioin Grade 7 in the '60s for sure - I'm playing it in concert in w eek or so and am using the ABRSM books from then!!

Thanks, everyone, for the helpful advice.

VN has finally decided to play the sonatina for a visiting music charity patron instead and the Accolay Concerto for our church charity fundraising youth music concert. The reason is totally pragmatic, after all. Dvorak's Sonatina is a tougher act for the pianist! So we spare some thought for the poor church elderly pianist who is actually more of a violinist (from having to practise) whereas her teacher happens to be an accompanist by profession.

She mentioned that it'd be nice to see Car Expert, Oddball, Jane, Suepea, etc, again, at the WG Forums Concert but then she will miss it as it falls squarely on her first day at RAMJA. So if anyone is in WG in November and would like to pop in to our church which is on the High Road, please email me and I will give you the details nearer the time. It's to raise money for very poor orphans in Africa.