Most of my pupils never practice - but I have one pupil who is a dream. He's been coming to me (total beginner) for 16 months and is taking his Grade 1 in July already. He is 14.

Last week he came to his lesson and played his three pieces perfectly - the best he'd ever played them: fluent, expressive, note-perfect, and I was beginning to hope he'd be in for a Distinction.

This week he comes and he's all over the place. He knows the pieces extremely well from memory - but its his fingers which kept running away with themselves and lack of control. I gave him exercises to help to strengthen his fingers to keep them under control - but is it possible for pupils to over-practice their peices? And if so, can anyone advise me how to overcome this?

Yes, it is possible to overpractice pieces although under-practice is a more common problem.... As his exam is in July, I'd be inclined to give him new pieces/technical exercises to concentrate on for a few weeks and make him take a break from the exam pieces so he doesn't get bored with them. Maybe he could learn some more pieces from the exam book and then you could choose which pieces he will play at the exam when you've got a date. It sounds as if he is ready for his exam now and if he keeps playing them they will get worse and he will play them automatically rather than giving them his full attention. How good is he at Sight-reading/aural and scales? Maybe he could spend a bit more time on those to ensure he gets the distinction he seems capable of.

Sorry, I'm not totally awake! Hope this makes some sense!

I know I've over-practised (in a wrong way - making the same mistakes over and over) before now; but his being fourteen just made me wonder a bit - is he growing like topsy, by any chance? Growth spurts can cause bouts of poor co-ordination, as the bones grow before muscles can catch up, leading to that well-known gawky look and movement out of an animated comic strip...concentration can also go to pot - and maybe that is part of the problem too?
Alternatively, it could be due to his having learned by memory; if he'd done less practice during the week, and if he was not in fact so wonderful at reading the music, he could well have forgotten bits?
I think the strengthening exercises may well help, but it could also be worthwhile checking on some sightreading skills if there is any doubt at all about the latter.

Hi there, Noodle, may I ask what is the anti-text club???

There are many clubs here. The anti-text club is to discourage the use of text-talk on the forum. Members do not approve of it being used here. Feel free to join!

oh, as in wot r u doing 2day and suchlike? I agree that`s a good club although I do use the occasionaly u and feel a little bad for being so lazy lol er is lol allowed? :-)

I find with faster violin pieces it is good to go back to practising very slowly once the fast speed has been mastered as the kids tend to just play it faster and faster once they know it and then it gets messy. I get them to play the piece slowly taking notice of every note. Then when we speed it up nearer the exam date it is tidy again. Maybe your student knows the pieces so well that he has stopped thinking.

I'd be tempted to moth ball the exam pieces and do something different for a week or two. Also talk to him about how nervous he feels about the exam, and how much pressure he feels about potentially getting a distinction. It could all be to do with natural teenage un-cordination during a growth spell, but anxiety may also be an underlying issue.

Thank you for your replies everyone. I didn't know about teenagers suffering bad co-ordination during growth spurts : maybe that has something to do with it.

His aural is good, so are his scales and as for his sight-reading, he is the best pupil I've ever had (though it depends on which specimen sight-reading test I give him: there are a couple in my ABRSM book which seem more difficult than others).

We started learning his Grade 1 pieces (piano) in January this year - and I'm amazed that he's ready to do his exam so quickly to be frank. I've never had a pupil be ready for an exam this fast.

However it is half-term this coming week - so he'll have a rest hopefully, then he is going on holiday for a week shortly before his exam, so I hope a break will do him good.

Maybe taking the book of exam pieces away from him for half term might help. (Unless he's memorised them, of course!)

I do that all the time. I know my grade 5 pieces so well now {because i've taken and failed the exam 3 times... =( } I dont know how to get out of it, my teacher never helps, she just leaves me to practice it. she doesn't know of over practice.

Erm.... If you know them so well how come you failed 3 times?

What has probably happened is he has become so familiar he has become over confident with them and so starting to make mistakes. A rest probably will help, but do be mindful when the mistakes are the same places each time as these are the week areas, so breaking them down over a lesson will help.

I had to do the same thing today with a little girl playing sleeping cat, she played it beautifully 2 weeks ago for a local festival and got a really good mark, and now mistakes have started to creep in, which were easily rectified - but then she goes and forgets to take her book home and its half term next week

Overpracticing - I wish A couple of thoughts occur

1 Have you spoken to the parents about this maybe there are external pressures
2 14 year old boys - possibly the hormones have kicked in !
3 A new computer game - computer games are to me the enemy as far as boys are concerned

The pupils who was instructd to mothball a couple of pieces is now playing them better than ever. She has learn't an important lesson. If things start going very wrong stop and try again the next day.

Did you fail this again recently? Apologies to the starter of this thread if this is going off-topic. Deviless - anyone can fail an exam once, but if you think you know these pieces and are still failing, then there absolutely has[u] to be a problem with your teacher. He/she must be missing something - probably several things. This must be soul-destroying, if you are failing because of factors that you are unaware of. If you are loathe to change teacher, then at least get another opinion on your playing. Don't just enter again and hope for the best. I was sitting in the waiting room the other day during an exam session. We could hear the candidates play when everyone was quiet. All the parents were congratulating their children when they came out as to how well they had done - but as a teacher I knew that several were going to be bitterly disappointed when the results came out. (The ones in question were not mine, I hasten to add.) But they had obviously been led to believe that their errors of timing, lack of rhythmic control, lack of dynamics, and so on were acceptable. Basically, the non-musical parents were being taken for a ride as to how well their precious children were being taught. It wouldn't matter how much they practised; they simply hadn't been made aware of some of the things that they needed to do to get it right. Don't let this happen to you again; get another teacher!

EDIT - This in no way implies that the boy in question in this thread is being badly taught - just in case this is misconstrued - just for the record. I am making a point to Deviless that in her case, it might not matter how much she practises; she may simply not have been made aware of what is required.

Thanks everyone - I'm hoping that after half-term his playing will get back to normal.

He is playing In The Pink, Giga and March. In The Pink was OK - but March, which he usually plays brilliantly with fantastic phrasing in both hands and lovely dynamics, but was a jumble in several places. So it was a shock. And Giga - which the second half used to give him problems, but we corrected - has now reverted to stumbling and he could control the LH quavers or keep them steady: again it's like he's regressed.

We did start learning Sleeping Cat and he learnt it excellently hands separate, but when we came to put hands together he struggled (he has only been learning piano for just 15 months), so we learnt In The Pink instead and he plays that much better.

I didn't tell him I was hoping for a Distinction from him so he shouldn't feel any pressure in that area.

It's just so disappointing when we've both worked so hard, to have a lesson where he played badly - but I hope it's maybe a temprorary thing. Anyhow - I'll let you know how he gets on!!


Deviless - I agree with previous poster, I think your teacher must be missing something if you've failed three times. What kind of comments are written on your exam sheet? You should be able to tell from that whether it's your fault, or your teacher's. Or do you just totally go to pieces in exams?

I get the impression after this poster has also failed theory several times that the teacher has rather a haphazard approach: not really bother with much preparation or teaching, just enter the exam again and again until the student passes. This is no fault of the student at all, I would strongly reccomend a new techer .

I've said this to deviless before - how can ANY teacher worth his/her salt let a student suffer the crushing blow to self-confidence and self-esteem that failing both piano and theory exams so many times must bring??

Deviless, you really MUST find yourself a better teacher...

I know i need to get a new teacher... If i don't pass my grade 5 for the 4th time (13th june!!) then i will change teachers. Don't know who to though!!! lol i'll have to ask round.

Ask at the BYMT!

I certainly know of a couple personally so let me know if you'd like me to put you in touch with them.

And BEST OF LUCK on 13th June!!

Cyrilla x

Thank you Cyrilla (its my brithday today!! YAY!!!) I'm thinking of asking Mr Sulivan (your sister, or you, may know of him)

sorry for taking over this thread! didn't mean to!!!!!

Deviless, make sure you find a new teacher. You cannot and must not continue with your current teacher.

happy birthday, by the way!

Happy birthday!

Woo, happy birthday deviless!!! (All the best people are born in May ).

I don't know Mr Sullivan. Is he a BYMT teacher???

Happy birthday ! you've still a bit of it left ...

Yes, he's a very well regognised flute teacher at the BYMT. Does a lot of work with the bands there and has recorded pieces with Phillip Sparke.

again, sorry for taking over this thread, i think its only fair now that we get back to the original topic!! lol

Pm me if you want to

sorry again!!! (i feel mean...)

You probably can over-practice but I've never encountered it myself. I suppose 8 hours a day on the violin could lead to an unbalanced existence and posture problems. Also, if you keep practising something wrong, then too much practice could be disasterous. However, it's the students who do loads of practice who are the ones who progress the most, so I'd be wary of knocking extensive practice, particularly if it comes from the student's own volition..

Violinia

I've had a pupil overpractice before now, but as most people say, it's rather rare and takes you by surprise. I think I would let your pupil have a rest from the offending pieces for a week, then play through them slowly the next lesson, with instructions to play them only on 3 or 4 days between lessons and slowly, and once they're restored to their former glory, keep them ticking over with practising on alternate days during the week. Make sure your pupil has something else to grab his attention for a couple of weeks.

You'll probably find that for grade 2 you'll be better prepared and will be able to judge how long it will take him to get the exam pieces ready - sounds like you'll be able to whizz through the grades with this one.

Just to say....he passed with 106. I was quite pleased especially since he was really struggling with co-ordination in the end, and also the piano at the examination centre is very heavy-actioned (and my pupil only has a keyboard to practice on). So in the face of all the odds against, the result was OK I guess.

Congratulations to your student.

Well done to you and your student