Hi
I am doing my piano Grade 7 this year in September, i have problems especially for my cadences and modulations portion. I just cant seemed to recognise them especially for modulation (subdominant or dominant). As for cadences, cant differentiate imperfect cadence?

I am really getting very stressed as the exams are getting near. Can anyone help please?

Thanks

So sad, no one helps me.

*DOOMZ Day!*

I had a similar problem.... I can hear it changes key, but can only tell you whether its now major or minor or modal but not a specific key,(although I haven't met anyone except a teacher and my friend who has perfect pitch who can do this!) and I can also say there's been a cadence and narrow it down to either a perfect or plagal, or interrupted or imperfect.
For my AS exam, it was easier to be able know how to do it and hear it.. so my teacher suggested to:
1) play cadences over and over again, and eventually they sink in!! They are seriously easier now! or get someone else to play them for you
2) practice modulating to the sub/dominant in different keys, so you get used to hearing the chord progressions.
3)if you get into the exam and haven't a clue.. guess!! There's only a few answers and you might get it right!! or if the examiner says "try again" choose a different answer!!
Good luck
x

have you tried playing them and really listening while you do?
Find modulations in the music you are playing and play it to listen to what happens.

That's fine if you can play piano, but what if you can't!!??

And know nobody that does who can help you!!

It really annoys me that the aural test seem to lean so much towards piano, (sorry I'm going to have a moan!) It's unfair on those that don't play piano and play instruments where chords are non-existant!! (except in exceptional circumstances, in very few pieces)

OK so most musicians have some knowledge of piano, but wehat about those of us who aren't studying music in school (so don't learn keyboard skills, can't afford piano lessons (let alone find room in house to stick piano) and have no desire to go beyong grade 5 theory to learn what the blazes chords are all about.

OK I'm done now.

Sorry.

I don't think that it's unfair to ask musicians, whatever their instrument, to understand harmony: after all if one plays a flute with piano accompaniment or as part of an orchestra or group harmony is very important to the piece: the piece would be fairly horrible if you ignored it. Isn't solo music for such instruments rather rare compared to the amount with accompanied/group repertoire?

I'm sure if the examiner could play three flutes at once to ask the question to you (s)he would! As for not wanting to learn the material that is beyond grade 5 theory to pass the exam; I don't think that's a very good excuse to claim that the exam is unfair: I don't want to learn the stuff for the exam so it's unfair to put it on That's like saying 'I don't want to learn scales, they should take them off the syllabus' !

What is perhaps unfair is that you can't practice on your own (then again if I were to do the tests on the piano myself I would know what I was playing so the question wouldn't be much of a challenge!); the ABRSM do some tapes/CDs of aural tests which would give you extra practice; just listening to lots of music tends to help with aural too.

Good luck with your future aural tests!

I don't know if this will help - it's something I use and it's worth a try.

Take a simple major scale. C major will do. (Tamsin - non-piano-players can do it on a flute or whatever, but if you can get hold of a keyboard - any keyboard - doesn't much matter for this excercise as long as it's in tune it will give you a different visual picture of the whole thing. You don't need keyboard skills either - just play the white notes from C to C; C is left of two black notes).

Play the scale through normally to fix the tonality in your mind. Slowly - really listen to each note.

Then play the same scale, but instead of finishing on C, finish half-way up or down by playing F# G. eg CDEFGABCBAGF#G.

You'll need to do this a number of times, and practise approaching the ending from different directions, eg CDEF#G; CBAGF#G etc.

You need to be able to hear when that F is F and when it's F#.
That's the modulation to the dominant. If you can spot it when it's in the melody, it's the first step to hearing it when it's in the harmony.

Once this is starting to be more familiar try the subdominant - B becomes B flat and the melody will end on F. Practise listening to the difference between CBAGF and CBflatAGF.

I hope that's reasonably clear. It's easier to do than to describe.
It may sound terribly basic, but it sometimes helps in hearing the direction a piece of music is going. Try to listen to as much music as you can too - particularly pieces using conventional harmony; short classical pieces are useful.
Listen for the sharpened fourth and flattened seventh that you played in the scale exercises.
good luck
Maggie

As I said, I was having a moan.

For grade 7 I did use the tapes, but they didn't seem to help me too much. I got to the stage when I could sing all the melodic memory tests by heart- top and bottom halves! but still completely messed up in the exam. and there's no point trying the sightsinging tests when you don't know if you are actually getting them even vauguely right as there are no recorded 'answers' on the tapes! When I did cadences for grade 6 I was fine, it was the only bit of the aural I was really confident about, but I simply cannot work out what chords are used, to be honest, odd as it may sound, I just don't understand how chords work really, which makes the test practically impossible.

My biggest complaint is simply that there is no way you can practise the tests, or really learn the aural skills required for them, without acess to a piano. And to be honest, I would be no better at the blesssed things if they were played on three flutes!

QUOTE

and there's no point trying the sightsinging tests when you don't know if you are actually getting them even vauguely right as there are no recorded 'answers' on the tapes!

Could you not play them back on your own instrument (maybe not in the right octave, or even in a different key)? That would give you the idea of whether or not you were correct.

QUOTE

I just don't understand how chords work really, which makes the test practically impossible

I suspect it would be a lot easier for you if you did understand the way that they work; I know you're not keen on theory but if you do want to learn some for the aural tests the ABC of harmony book A has a good introduction to chord progressions and cadences etc. (it's a book with text and then exercises to do) and the knowledge you get from doing that would probably help you a lot (although again you're in the unfortunate situation that it would help a lot more if you could play the examples).

Sorry to upset you by referring to the piano tamsin, but the original question was asked by a gr 7 piano student.

QUOTE (sbhoa @ Jun 16 2004, 11:20 AM)

Sorry to upset you by referring to the piano tamsin, but the original question was asked by a gr 7 piano student.

I can sympathise with Tamsin though. I've just been doing a session with my teacher on gr7 modualtions and cadences, and it's not easy if you are not a pianist.

I've been working on Grade 6 Theory too, so I've got some understanding of how harmony works. But I have found I have come to a bit of a standstill in working through Harmoy in Practice, as it says to play the examples on a piano, however slowly, so that you get to recognise the sounds. Great advice - but now I'm saving for a piano!

It's not always practical to wait a week for another lesson before you can progress at home... I'm beginning to wonder if I can do gr7 justice now, but why should those of us who don't play piano have to struggle so much with this part of the aural. We could give up, but then the rest of the exam suffers just because we are not pianists!

Now I've had a moan too!

QUOTE

but now I'm saving for a piano!

A cheap keyboard would do for the purpose of theory; and would be a lot more affordable!

There are quite a few websites with explanations of chord progressions and samples that you can listen to; that may help you to get used to the sounds of the various cadences without needing a piano (even if it's just the same example that you listen to again and again!). How about listening out for cadences in the music that you listen to generally; it'll give you more practise; especially if you find some music that you have the sheet music for so that you can check that you were correct (you could get piano sheet music from The Sheet Music Archive if you don't have any).

All not ideal solutions but may help you a little.

Thankyou everyone for the suggestions, I really do intend to start trying to figure out chord and stuff once my GCSE's are over with and then I've got a nice long while till grade 8 to try and scape together enough ability to let my pass the aurals (I'll be happy with that)

I wasn't exactly upset sbhoa, just having a moan as I said, and a lot of the advise you have given on this and other re: aural threads has been very helpfull, if not to me that to someone else (even if they are pianists!!)

Thanks so much for everyone's commenst.
I'll give it a try and see if it helps.

Actually i have not gone through G6 theory (currently learning), cant really catch the syallbus, to date, i have not quite understood the beginning, can anyone suggest any theory books?

Rgds

Well, I understand your pain. THe aural tests would be that much easier if you understand even the slightest bit of how harmony works. That way, you'd be able to predict the chords fairly accurately.

However, I didn't go about doing Grade 7, so I immediately moved on to the Grade 8 syllabus after my Grade 6 exam and trust me, I didn't find the aural tests easy either!

As for modulations, I suggest you hum the tonic of the starting key - really loudly in your mind. This is because the last chord that ends the extract will almost always be the tonic chord of the new key, in root position. So, listen out to the bass part, pitch YOUR starting note with the new bass note, and voila! You should be able to get the key rather easily.

Identifying cadences are fairly easy as well. I'm sure you'd be able to tell imperfect from perfect right? The trouble would be interrupted and imperfect. Both of them sound like commas in a piece a music. HOwever, interrupted cadences seem to move the extract into a minor key (V-vi). Imperfect merely sounds like...well, a comma. And between perfect and plagal, I can't really tell them both apart yet. My teacher advises me to play them over and over again till I get them in. Plagal sounds less "leapy" to me. Ho hum.

Careful about V and V7 chords too. Listen out for the dissonances.

Hope this helps - even in the least bit. Cheers.

QUOTE

And between perfect and plagal

Plagal cadences sound like the Amen at the end of religious music, I find that to be quite distinctive; perfect cadences just sound like the 'usual' ending although both sound 'finished': don't know if that helps you...

Thanks alot Juniorpianist !
U were great! THe modulations formula really help! Thx!

As for the chords, i still cant figure out on whether it is plagal or perfect.

And for V and V7, i can never differentiate this at all.

*sigh* THink i am not going to make it.

I had a similar problem with my aural preparation for my grade 8 piano. I bought the AB's tapes of examples and listened to them alot - around the house/ in the car etc. and found it helped alot.
Also play some hymn tunes - loads of examples there !!!

Yes, its definetly the interrupted/imperfect that catches me. I was told that plagal sounds like 'Amen' is you sing it, I dunno if you've ever heard the sung version of the Lord's prayer? I'm not even sure how well it works, not having tried much of grade 8 aurals yet.

But its the identifying what chords are used that really gets me!!- (except for perfect, thats (thankfully) simple)

QUOTE

I was told that plagal sounds like 'Amen' is you sing it

Ah...I haven't realised that before. Hm...perhaps I will listen out for it the next time I'm at church. =)

And I'm glad I was of help. =)

Thanks. I shall try to hear out for "AMEN" the next time. But as for V and V7, think i am still quite deaf on that.

For aural, I always used to use the "aural in practice" tapes from Music Concepts... but I couldn't find one for grade 7.
Do they only go up to grade 5?? I found them really helpful (until I learned all the answers from memory)
For the modulation test, I always just keep the keynote of the original key in my mind, maybe hum it really, really quietly, and then see how it relates to the keynote of the new key. Actually I shouldn't have to do that because I have perfect pitch anyway- but it's good just to make myself sure.

QUOTE

I was told that plagal sounds like 'Amen' is you sing it

Yes - like the amen at the end of a traditional hymn
(think of something like All people that on earth do dwell, or Now thank we all our God ?? is either of those familiar ?)

V and V7 - hmmmm not so easy to describe; I think V is somehow a cleaner sound than V7. My old theory teacher used to say that V7 sounded like a dying duck you do get the falling sound of the 7th note which you don't get in a pure V. Don't know if this helps.

Maggie

QUOTE (cecilia @ Jul 2 2004, 10:15 AM)

Actually I shouldn't have to do that because I have perfect pitch anyway- but it's good just to make myself sure.

If you have perfect pitch then you don't need to make sure!??

I agree that playing them is the best way to really understand how the chords and modulations are formed-sorry if this seems unfair to non-pianists. I've got a Grade 8 student who was really having problems recognising the 2 chords before the cadence chords. We made a list of all the chords she could be asked to identify, and she has spent 2 weeks practicing them and really listening to them. I tested her today, and she can now do that part of the Aural, which she was unable to do a few weeks ago. We are going to try similar methods with the modulations. If you're not a pianist, is there any way you could get your teacher to put a selection of the chords and modulations onto a tape for you, played really slowly so you can get used to the sound before attempting any of the pre-recorded tapes you can buy?

I know but I am always v. nervous in exams so I get scared that somehow I get it wrong...
I know perfect pitch doesn't fail but I still get worried that it might!!!

well ive just been reading through the different messages anf formulas u ppl hav posted in...and all i can say is that i am still baffled...every time my teacher practices dat part of the aural test with me i always fail it...she 'bangs' (as she calls it) the chords out to me and i still dont get it...i guess i will just neva be able to tell the difference between perfect, interrupted, and imperfect chords...let alone tell NAME the chords....i fink i mite just give up and just fail dat part of the test...(bit negative aint i? oh well........)