I've been helping a friend who wants to learn electric guitar get his head round the basics of guitar playing and music reading.

I've had him place his thumb behind the neck of the guitar as you would in classical playing. But I've subsequently been told this is wrong and that electric guitarists need their thumb round the top of the neck. (This is from a self-taught, tabs only guitarist) I can't see how this wouldn't limit speed and flexibility. But I also don't want to mess my friends future playing, so thought I'd better check.

Another electric guitarist told me that you 'need' your thumb on your left hand to depress strings for some pieces. Again, I can't imagine the conditions under which you would need this.

Can someone help?

Sorry this is rubbish - I am a Registered Guitar Tutor for the London College of Music I have a 100 percent exam success in electric guitar up to Grade 6 with pupils

You place your thumb behind the neck in the normal manner - the only time you would use you thumb over the top would be to play bends Most electric guitarists play with the strap too long because it looks "cool" but unplayable

You cannot develop any speed for runs with your thumb clamped over the top nor do quick chord changing

You need to develop the thumb over position if you intend to do any sort of lead playing pentatonic riffs or string bending. If you like, think of it as a left hand rock position as opposed to the left hand classical position. It isn't wrong to use one or the other..... You need to learn to play with both to maximise your options.



Bear in mind that playing while standing up puts you into a whole new set of problems if you are trying to use a classical left hand position. Instead of (for eg) playing a 3rd position G major barre chord as you would with classical position. Stop strings 1 & 2 with your left index finger, stop the other strings as normal with your other fingers and wrap your thumb over the top to stop string 6. It is stopping all the strings in the same position but using a different method which is, given a little practice, a little bit more practical for the situation.

OK... So, taking those slightly conflicting opinions into account, would I be right in assuming that teaching him the basics as I am is probably a good foundation, but that he needs as he gets more advanced, to be able to play thumb over too? Although, presumably, keeping the strap short as tony suggests would mean that you can stop the strings with a full bar as you would with classical? Is there a reason not to do that OMG?

Watching the eagles t'other night, I noticed that they used the thumb over thing an awful lot.

Yes you can keep the strap short if you want, or if they want is what I should say maybe. There isn't just one set way to do anything and the thumb over is an accepted method of playing electric guitar which is taught/practiced by many teachers/musicians which as you say you saw the Eagles used an awful lot. You certainly can develop speed for pentatonic runs and I don't find it unplayable at all. Having said that I don't hang my guitar down near my knees which I would find unplayable. It makes string bending a whole lot easier once you understand the mechanics and most guitarists tend to throw bends into solo riffs.
Just do a search on the net for pictures of any of the well known guitarists who can rattle out solo's and you will see it certainly doesn't effect the speed of their solo playing. Gary Moore for example, or Stevie Ray Vaughan or Dave Gilmour.... Thumb over certainly doesn't spoil their playing.
You need to be able to do both....

Meerkat

Part of what I teach is playing major and minor pentatonic runs at speed in improvisation The bent wrist position does not work at speed It can work for slow slow bends and soulful playing BUT if you want to shred for instance or do nippy country blues runs it is impossible unless you have huge hands

Test this raise our left hand out in front of you with your wrist straight - wiggle your fingers
now bend your wrist at an angle and try and wiggle your fingers at speed

The defence rests !

So in effect what you are saying is that Stevie Ray Vaughan, Gary Moore, Eddie Van Halen, Hendrix and alike have huge hands? or maybe they can't play at speed.


I've tried that with no problems..Maybe you should watch Alex Lifeson play the intro to "spirit of radio" you may want to rethink that.

You can't seriously be suggesting all these people can't play, and other respected teachers and virtuoso guitarists like Jamie Andreas are all wrong and you are right? I'm not saying you cannot do the same thing from a position you are advocating, but don't rubbish something just because you can't do it and don't teach it. Especially when you are taking a position that flies in the face of so much evidence to the contrary.

You may cross examine?

What I am saying is that is that a beginner needs the best opportunity to develop properly and not take on board the bad examples of guitar heroes A beginner will have weaker slower fingers - starting off with the bad habits of rock stars in the playing area is not a good idea

I have been playing guitar since 1964 I have taught 100s of pupils over the years and been through this problem time and time again

The next you will be saying is people don't need to read music

Well we can agree that you are right that a beginner does need a very firm grounding.
I am not advocating that beginners should start without learning the basics.. What I am saying is there is nothing to be lost on indulging in diversity and irregardless of your own personal preference it is an accepted and well used method that is put into practice by most electric guitarists that play contemporary music.
I am slightly behind you in the "years in" department having only been 3 years old in 1964 but I did start with electric guitar around 1972, though I only took up classical studies 3 1/2 years ago aged 41. In the early years I didn't indulge in a tutor and I didn't get the good grounding that everyone should get and my progress suffered as a consequence.
I think it's very important that people learn to read music and to understand it's structure and history. I didn't do it from the outset and was less because of it, and it was precisely why I decided to take up classical studies.
I don't think there is any mileage in your last statement. Furthermore, it is irrelevant to the disagreement to introduce a speculation in order to provoke or instigate an argument.
If you wish to discuss the technical rights or wrongs of improvisation, then we can do that, without fishing for something else we disagree on.

Onmageetar - we will have to agree to differ

Meerkat - I suggest you friend invest in some tuition DVDs John Petrucci is good so is Paul Gilbert

To Learn Guitar There is a time and place for the thumb to
come over the top in rock guitar but it is best to teach the basics
and good form. Learn the rules then break them.
Teach your friends good posture and and form rather than tricks.
A complete guide can be found at guitar5day.com

Also an excellent teaching DVD that shows the proper form
and a complete set of exercises.

More than four and a half years between this and the previous post?!! Some dodgy promotion going on here methinks !