Sorry if this sounds really stupid but...
I have suspected for a while that Gemmy's bridge is a bit higher than I would like as the strings are hard work to stop. Can you buy bridges of different heights? Is there just one height that you have to make lower for yourself? If so, how? Is it easy to do?

I have no idea where to start...

W

I suppose you could file it / chisel it down yourself using a template, but for most of us it's a luthier job (but a simple one). If there isn't anyone suitable near you, I can suggest someone to post it to.

Liz

all brand new bridges are not shaped at all, so that you can alter the height to suit the instrument...
the best height for the bridge on a 16inche viola is 3.2, 2.7 cm + the normal bottom height, however it may not be accurate if you shape it yourself, so i suggest you to give it to a string specialist to do the work.
(PS different instruments will need to adjust to different heights too...too high may result in strings tensioning too much or the wood plate of the body cracking...too low will dampens the sound so that it doesn't project probably. but a string specialist know all that kind of stuff, so it's look to trust him/her.)

You can get viola bridges of different heights. I think unfitted bridges usually are sufficiently high to allow you to shape the bridge to suit your preferences.

Fitting a new bridge is a bit tricky, and is usually done by luthiers, but it costs a lot. If you want to try doing it yourself it is possible (I've done it), but you need be careful that the soundpost doesn't come out when the bridge is off, and you should use an adjustable bridge which moulds itself to the top of the instrument.

If you want more details about how to fit a new bridge yourself, please PM me.

Sometimes when the strings are hard to stop the problem is that the fingerboard is too low, which is another job for a luthier.


You could file the existing bridge down a bit, but then you will have a problem if you accidentally file away too much.

Oh and yes, different size violas have different height bridges to suit the 'pure' melodic frequency. ( i know...i know .....it's physics again.... ) so if your viola is smaller than 16 inches, than the measurements have to reduce too.

It's very interest as my friend (who is a professional violist) suggest that the best purest melodies comes from a 16.25 inches viola!! It's usually not possible to get 16.25 inches in the market...so that the closest is 16 inches. Anyway, I love my 16 inches viola, it sounds good enough.

Eeeek! I had no idea it was so difficult. I'm sure, years ago, that I tried to change the bridge on my violin because it was too low. I didn't really understand about shaping it so I think I gave up in the end. I didn't realise how dangerous it was...

Perhaps I'll just continue to live with it - it's not that bad... Gemmy is 15 1/2 inches by the way...

W

Plus the fact that taking strings and bridge off will release pressure on the soundpost and tehn that will be at risk of moving or falling over.

I would take it in to a luthier and ask them to swap the bridge for a slightly lower one. I'm sure they wouldn't charge much for this. Simple job for an expert, but I wouldn't tackle it.

It's very rare for a Gliga soundpost to collapse when restringing - I've never known it happen, so i shouldn't let that worry you too much.

Liz

Believe it or not, some other cheap violas' sound post DO collpse if the bridge is removed. I.e. mine does....

It isn't particularly difficult or dangerous to fit a new bridge ( or modify an existing one) if you know what the potential problems are and you know how to do it. It just takes time, patience and a careful approach. The soundpost shouldn't come out if it has been fitted properly in the first place.

My luthier takes about 3-4 hours to fit a new bridge properly.

That is really quite rare these days - the only soundposts we really expect to collapse are cellos and then only if shipped bridge down, not just from restringing. You could always get you viola's soundpost replaced, it should improve the tone too.

Of course I don't consider a Gliga to be a cheap viola but that's another issue

Liz

Inexpensive it may be - cheap it certainly ain't!

Actually my viola onlt cost $850 HKD....the cheapest thing in HK....>< the strings which I install are even more expensive than the instrument!!

I think it's worth bearing in mind that the replacement of a bridge can be costly - especially if you have a nice quality one fitted. I've just had new bridges on my cello and violin costing 300 euro and 150 euro respectively - they are very nice quality and make a huge difference to the sound. You can pay less, but expect less for it. In any case, it usually takes a few hours to fit a bridge properly, so don't expect it to be cheap.

If you're playing a Gliga (and I suspect you are from the fact that you call it Gemmy!), then the problem may not come from the bridge at all - string height often seems too high on the fingerboard when the scoop is wrong - a luthier will be able to shoot and / or rescoop your fingerboard for you to correct this. This is a relatively common problem on Gligas and people always think it's the bridge, it rarely is. If the string measurements are right at the end of the fingerboard, then the problem comes from the fingerboard and not the bridge.

My advice is to take it to a luthier, have him/her look it over and advise you on what needs to be done. The Gligas as they come are lovely instruments and shockingly good value for money - but if you're prepared to have a really decent set up done on them, it lifts them to another level all together.

Allan

yes, to take it in your own hands in silly. That's why there are professional people.

Don't worry - I won't be tackling it myself! I'm about to move to a new area very shortly so I'll wait until after that.

Yes, Gemmy is a Gliga Gems and is lovely as he is. I just wondered whether he might be made a little easier to play. Have you any idea at all what sort of costs would be involved - I am completely clueless on this...

W

My luthier takes about 3 to 4 hours to fit a new bridge properly, and charges £45 per hour.

So the total cost would be about £150 to £200 (including the cost of the materials). I know this because I got a quote for it a couple of months ago.

Don't know how much re-shaping an existing bridge would be, probably cheaper.

That's a very high charge - and rather a long time too. Quotes I have heard from two different repairers speak of half a day to carve a cello bridge, but a viola bridge is much smaller.

The trouble is that repairers are in VERY short supply so they can pretty much charge what they want. Willobie isn't a professional player and that isn't a professional instrument, so there's no need to go to the same lengths a professional player would go to.


Liz

I think you'll probably find it's a fingerboard issue on a gliga, to be honest - if I recall correctly, my violin fingerboard cost 30 UK to rescoop and shoot - it wasn't expensive at all. Changing the bridge will be far more costly and may not solve the problem. I would imagine somewhere in the region of 60 - 100 UK for a reasonable quality bridge.

Have the luthier look at it and specifically ask him/her to check out the fingerboard to see if the problem is coming from there. If not, then you'll have to stump up for a new bridge but you might as well go down the cheaper road first!

Also, be aware that it's worth having a professional set up on your gliga - I loved my violin when it first arrived from liz last year - it was immediately playable straight out of the case and even in tune when it arrived. I loved the sound and look of it but, like you, felt the bridge was a little high. Took it to a luthier who changed the bridge for one the same height but better quality, reworked the nut and pegs, redid the fingerboard and adjusted the soundpost - the difference was staggering and, even after paying for set up, the instrument was still an enormous bargain!

Allan

Er - that is a bit out of my price range... I think I will learn to live with it for the forseeable future. The area I am moving to is Newark which has the violin-making school so maybe repairers are more plentiful around there...

Thanks for the suggestions.

W

Oh that's worth knowing!

I love my viola, but I have a friend who is a luthier so it might well be something worth saving up for.

Yay!! another East Midlander!!

I'm working on it...

W

Hmm - very confused about the above post. It seems to have come from another email address of mine. I must have signed up for the forum ages ago, not used it, then resigned up as rosfrog. My new password manager software seems to have automatically logged me on as violonsrecital - I'm confused! Technology makes my head hurt. Is there a way to delete the violonsrecital account (can I do it, or do the mods need to do it?).

Anyhow, just to avoid confusion, the post above came from me!

Allan
Dual identity serial instrumentalist!




Hey Sarah,

I think you'll be amazed! If your friend is a luthier, you may well get a better price (luthiers generally respond well to bottles of whisky in France, I've found ) - If I had the courage to record myself playing the gems 1 viola I have just got back from the luthier (with all the adjustments) and if I thought it wouldn't sound wretched because of my playing, I would let you hear it - you'd be astonished at the difference it makes.

Allan

O come on Allan, be brave.

Anyway, in view of your other thread, I for one am waiting to hear a recording of a Gama cello. Have heard them live a few times and been suitably "wowed" but we'd love a cello recording for our website. Now if THAT doesn't give you a goal to work for, what will?

Liz

LOL! Ok, you've asked for it. Here's the deal, when I can play the swan reasonably well, I'll record it and upload it (and you're right about the sound, the cello arrived and it's rich and dark and fantastic).

How's your arm? Can you play again?

Ah, I didn't realise you'd aleady got the cello!

No I still can't play - can manage about grade 3 stuff but it hurts. I debated over switching to double bass but just the effort of hauling one up to our storeroom - about a dozen steps - was enough to put me off. the orchestra rehearsal room is up TWO flights of stairs ......

Liz

That's rotten luck. The bass would be cool, but then of course it would be a huge work out each time you rehearsed! Has this affected your recorder playing in any way?

No, recorder is not a problem - but I can't get into an orchestra on one of those

Liz

When I read that post I thought can there possibly be two Allans who have a similar posting style and play the fiddle??!


How about playing something really simple on it? I'd love to hear!

What did you have done?


Awww. I'm really sorry to hear you're still unable to play, Liz Do you know for sure what it is?

[quote name='sarah-flute' date='Jun 9 2006, 05:06 PM' post='338996']

Frozen shoulder - apparently 1 to 3 years to clear up

Liz

[quote name='elidatrading' date='Jun 9 2006, 04:48 PM' post='339044']
[quote name='sarah-flute' date='Jun 9 2006, 05:06 PM' post='338996']

Frozen shoulder - apparently 1 to 3 years to clear up

Liz
[/quote]

Oh that's tough. Sorry to hear about that. Do you have to do any physio for it? What caused it? The violin-playing?

Oh no

Muchos sympathy, that really sucks

Well, last summer I decided to be virtuous and started doing some serious viola practice. I worked up gradually and all that and never played for more than 45 mins or so without a break, but I built up to two hours a day. By the middle of July it was hurting not whilst i was playing but afterwards. it got worse and worse and by the middle of August i thought I'd better have a couple of weeks off or I wouldn't be able to go back to the orchestras in September. I went to two consecutive evening's rehearsals in September and was in serious pain, went to the doc, got painkillers and was given exercises to do, was told it should clear in a couple of weeks. It didn't. Went back and got a repeat performance. Haven't been back recently.

There is some progress - it used to be that if I accidentally "wrenched" it I would be in severe pain for several minutes, that has diminished a lot (as expected, the pain subsides between the 6 and 12 month mark if I recall correctly) and I have a little more mobility. But it has a long way to go.

I miss my swimming too. I didn't swim at all for months and then when I went back I was back on painkillers for several weeks as a result. Just tried again yesterday - breaststroke only this time - and that wasn't too bad at all, I haven't needed any painkillers this time so i will try to start swimming regularly again. It's very slow progress in the pool though, i feel like I'm about 80 years old

Liz

True enough... darn shame, though. Double Bass might be worth the effort (or cello - is cello doable... I'm determined to convert the world!)



Wow! I have a posting style? Is that a good thing or a bad thing?!



Simple... I'm doing some Haydn at the moment, I could have a bash at that I suppose... maybe I'll make an 'Allan's appalling cello progress chart' set of recordings... it might be funny to do one every month or so and see how they progress. Ok, I'll have a go at something.

Darn! you've done it again, flute-devil...

Allan
(Beware all ye who enter here - Sarah the floot-devill doth take your soul and maketh you doeth stuff before you knoweth what happen. eth. ed... erm, ...hear ye, hear ye...)

It's great to see so many viola lovers in here....I reckon we should have a seperate viola forum!!

Yes cello is doable but it would take me a long time to get to the standard of the orchestras I was in (bass is rather more in demand - and the parts are often easier!)

Lzi

good, I think. It just sounded like you somehow...


Cool would be great to hear your cello playing and also your newly-set-up Gliga if you could be persuaded...

Gemmy went to see the doctor today on account of his immovable pegs! He came back with pasted pegs, a lowered bridge and an adjusted sound post. He's much easier to play now and the whole thing only cost me £20 - on a Sunday!

W

Sounds like you've got a good chap/ess there, hang onto him/her!

Liz

Whoever organises that is an optimist. I reckon to play the bass only when both rehearsal and concert venues are on a level with the car park and not too far. Does the orchestra have any basses at all?

Re bridge height: someone pointed out that the appropriate correction for high strings is to change the angle or shape* of the fingerboard. That is because changing the height of the bridge changes the tone. Of course, you might want to do that too, but I don't know what the effect is, or how rapidly it happens. You would need advice from someone who really understands the matter to know how far to go.

* Good fingerboards are slightly concave, so that the angle between it and the string at the contact point remains the same wherever it is fingered. A good shape is an equiangular spiral centred on the top of the bridge. It practice, I suspect most luthiers aim only to make the curvature increase somewhat towards the bridge.

It's best to get a professional viola technician to have a look at it, however I sanded mine down because it was a new one - worked just as well.