It started just another normal day, well if having relatives from down under staying can ever be normal.

Things were going quite well! until.......................... the music teacher arrived. nothing unusual in this she was expected and the girls were waiting. The first thing out of the ordinary was on wandering passed the door youngest was playing Bass recorder instead of Treble. not really a big issue. I even smiled nicely when teacher mentioned Bass recorder exams! I'd read the thread and knew miss music mad was a couple of grades away.

Well I thought all must be well for Grade 3 treble. I chatted with our visitors, he by this time was digging up my garden but I stayed calm. Still smiling I went to make a cup of tea (teacher moans if I don't).

Then it happened! The sound of Jingle Bells drifting through the wall!!! Something was a little odd and it was not the Christmas tune in June. I tried to sort out the sound in my mind. Not Recorder, definately not Violin.

Well I'm only the mother, with no musicality. Maybe it's one of our other instruments (there's enough of them lying around).

I opened the door cup of tea in hand, and then I saw it, silver and shiny, my daughters expression one I recognise, buy me one now. Being a bit green I did not know what it was. "It's a cornet"!!!!!

How very nice for it. My first thought was it's for sale and has designs on joining the rest of the band (no wonder the neighbours call our front room "the music room"). I was safe on that score it belongs to the teachers mother.

After lesson madam is on ebay looking at the price of Cornets. I wonder how many friends/relatives of her teacher own instruments? I know she's of the opinion madam is musically bored.

That night I dream Orchestral Instruments of every shape and size are chasing me, they want to live with us. I wake in a cold sweat to remember her mother sets the Recorder Syllabus for the local Music Service exams and wonder how long it will be before Bass Recorder is added?

What should I do ban all musicians from the house? Write a letter to High School asking my child receives no Music Tuition? Write a letter of complaint to LEA as the Head of Music Service has tried tactfully mentioning Double Bass? Lock up Daughter and hope she grows out of it? Run away!!!!!!!!!

Screams loudly.................he's digging up my garden again.

Please HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, I don't know what you were 'on' when you wrote that, but I'd sure like some of it!

Sounds a pretty normal day to me. You're very lucky having a teacher who comes to the house.

The cornet is a great instrument. Not as strident or as loud as the trumpet but learning one will let you also play trumpet and flugelhorn as well. Far more interesting than a recorder!

But the question we'd all like you to answer is:

Who's digging up your garden?


The plot thickens!

Steve

Glad you enjoyed it!

My daughter also plays Piano, Flute, Oboe and Percussion as well as both recorders, Violin, electric and Bass Guitar and amuses herself with Sax and Clarinet (these are her sisters).

It's our visiting relatives digging up the Garden

How old is she?

Ah but double basses are in serious demand

She's eleven, starting high school in September.

Liz you are not surposed to be encouraging her!

I think it's a bit cheeky to accept another free lesson from the Music Service and I know to let her have the lessons would cause some serious rearranging on their part. She has two free lessons already Oboe and Percussion.

I'm on here so I can't see whats happening with the Garden!

Wow - Cornet has no real similarity to any of her existing instruments in terms of how to produce a note or in fingering so to play Jingle Bells at her first handling of the instrument shows such natural apptitude for the instrument, she should probably ditch all the others and focus on Brass - maybe go for the Horn which is notoriously difficult.

Not sure I'm particularly impressed with a teacher who says a child is musically bored at age 11 and suggests taking up a different instrument. I'd be inclined to ask the teacher to inspire her with more of an interest in one of the existing instruments. Perhaps I'm just pushy.

Best of luck with the Garden

Wow! Free lessons from the music service - where is this?
Wouldn't happen round here.

Her teacher is really good and was not suggesting that she gives up any other instrument. She had a bit of help with the Jingle Bells. But she has found everything else really easy and the teacher was trying out a challenge. At least I suspect thats what it was. Also the teacher feels a bit guilty about not entering madam for grade 1 Violin. When there is no need.

The free lessons were bid for from a central fund and cover five endangered instruments. I'm sure all the Music Services had the chance to bid. Our Music service is ecellent and very supportive.

What on earth is a Music service? How many do you have?

What central fund? Which instruments are endangered? I bet they're the expensive ones!

Steve

What on earth is a Music service? How many do you have?

What central fund? Which instruments are endangered? I bet they're the expensive ones!

Steve
[/quote]

Hi Steve

The music service employs the Peri's that work in both the Primary and High school. They organise various bands, instrument groups, workshops bands and Orchestras to perform at local functions and on tours of Primary Schools, also a residential. Provide the pianist for exams, have their own music exams and enter pupils for AB and Trinity exams.

The endangered instruments as I understand them are Oboe, Bassoon, Double Bass and French Horn. They also offer Orchestral Percussion, but I'm not sure if this is under the same scheme or a different one. There is a Wider Opportunities Project, that delivers Instrumental tuition to whole classes of Primary children, but I'm not sure of the detail with regards to this.

I think I'm correct in saying that the Music Services are tied in with LEA's, ours is certainly in council offices.

I'm sure others will tell you more.

Hi Earplugs, (love the name!)

I was thinking about this yesterday. My son is learning the trumpet and I can get almost 2 octaves out of it myself before I turn red and keel over. I also tinker with the oboe -though haven't started taking it seriously yet.

It dawned on me that in fact the two embouchures are very similar. In fact I'd go so far as to say that if someone has learnt the oboe, they will find it quite easy to produce sounds on a cornet. However, since the oboe requires more force from the centre of the lips, I'm not sure that the reverse is true.

Given the enormous effort required to blow through an oboe, perhaps it's not surprising that she found the cornet easy.

Sorry Notmusimum, better get back on Ebay!

Steve

I'm not sure how easy she found it. I just feel that her thirst for all things musical is starting to run away with itself. I'm not quite sure how to deal with it any more and am infact finding it a bit scarey!

I have to accept that she is a very musical person naturally and this has become obvious over the last year. The problem is that I'm not sure if it's being harnessed in the right way and I'm sure her teacher is a bit confused as well. It's not lack of motivation, she is easily motivated but not easily challenged. To the extent of learning the Grade pieces largely for herself and then polishing them up with her teachers

Should she continue to amass instruments and work towards exams on several at one time or do we look at specialist schools? It was quite funny when she took 4 exams at once and passed them all with distinctions (they were low levels). The violin was to slow her down, but 3 lessons and grade 1 standard! I know she can read music and this helps hugely as do excellent sight reading skills. The only thing she finds difficult is singing, but then she is due a tonsilectomy (one reason we got the violin to keep her amused when she can't blow for a while).

Her teachers sometimes feel that a little more maturity is needed now she is around grade 4 Recorder and Flute, and around Grade 3 Treble and Oboe. She enjoys taking back to back exams but I'm not sure it's the right thing to do. She does not just play exam pieces all the time either, today she got some new Violin material and played them quite well straight off and they are grade 1 to 2 standard but not exam pieces.. She does this with all her instruments, sight reading the pieces from the Grade above or the back of a book. She is also in a couple of bands, flute and recorder group and goes to a jamming session for guitar/bass. Her instruments are not her only source of enjoyment, and she is definately not forced, bullied or the like. Practice is equally like to be because she is asked to take one of her instruments(this only to say there is time available in our schedule) as to be out of choice.

Whilst I am very proud, what I do understand is that it is not usual. My other daughter plays a couple of instuments well, learns quickly etc but is not in the same league.

If any one has experienced this kind of thing before I would really like to know how the parents/teachers handled it?

Actually Steve, when you can do it properly the effort is not that enormous. I felt it was when I first started and used to listen disbelievingly to my teacher who kept telling me that oboes are designed to be played and that I shouldn't feel I was fighting it to force a sound out of it. One day the penny dropped and I discovered he was right you just blow down it and it plays.

(Sorry this is a bit off topic)

I am interested in your dilemma, and would like to know if anyone has an answer to your questions. I too am not musical (I did grade 3 piano, but was not very keen on practising), but my son (aged 12), although not in the same league, is similar to your daughter in that he picks up new pieces straight away, and is good at sightreading. He taught himself one of his Grade 3 pieces while he was doing his pieces for Grade One (because it was in the same book) and is now playing Grade 5 pieces even though he is doing Grade 3. There never seems to be much feedback as to whether this is unusual, but recently I asked his Head of Music at school about him, and got the reply that he is precocious and unusual for the school he goes to, but that such children are not at all unusual in specialist music schools.

Unlike your daughter (who seems much precocious than my son!) he shows no wish to play other instruments, but he does get bored with his exam pieces and constantly needs to play new things. I wonder if your daughter needs to play more pieces to avoid getting bored rather than more instruments? I think that it's great that she enjoys music so much, it is such a brilliant social thing for children. My son has gained a lot in confidence through playing, plays with 3 different bands and mixes with children of all age groups. he has been given the chance to go on a lot of school trips, and play in different venues, just through being able to play an instrument. Just a thought - if your daughter starts the cornet as well, she will be in demand for playing in a brass band as well as all the other musical groups she can play in.

Hi Chris

I don't really want my dayghter to play Cornet, I kinda feel the same towards it as I do Double Bass. I've also put the lid on Drum Kit at the moment. It's just one too many things, although I don't doubt she could play them!

My daughter like your son plays pieces other than those for her exams even when working towards grades. She has some opportunities to perform and these will increase to a small degree, when she goes to High School in September.

At the moment we are begining to think about specialist Music Schools maybe for Saturdays. It's strange as a parent on one level I here the progress she makes but I am still trying to get my head round the fact that she may have a special talent. I expect I feel a bit scared of it.

Anyway she did her Grade 4 flute today (Trinity) so we'll see how it goes.

Dear All

Neither my wife or I are musical. My wife (don't tell her) is tone deaf. I was an OK treble but could never read music and never had an instrumental lesson. I got a C in my music O-level.

My son, Lawrence is 15, so this is what you might be looking forward to.

He sang and played recorder at primary school, and had some violin lessons. He got a violin grade 1 (merit) age 7.

Just turned 8 he auditioned for the choir of the Chapel Royal at Hampton Court Palace and was accepted as a probationer. He'd been singing in a council choir that got reorganised such that he couldn't sing with it anymore, and the director recommended him to the Chapel Royal.

That Christmas he asked for a Metallophone.

Age 9 he started piano lessons.

Age 11, and still a chorister at the Chapel Royal, he competed for and was awarded a Choral Scholarship to Hampton School. The Choral Scholarship entitled him to free instrumental lessons. By that time he was grade 3 piano. He kept is existing piano teacher and had singing, organ and oboe lessons at school. He started the organ because he'd spent three years singing with the fine organ at the Chapel Royal and wanted to have a go. He couldn't reach the pedals. He took up oboe because the school didn't have any oboists and was looking for volunteers, and he needed an orchestral instrument for when his voice broke. At the end of the first year he got his oboe 1 (dist) but decided he'd rather play bassoon. He retired as a chorister from the Chapel Royal in November 2004 after 6 years, the last two as Head Chorister, and was awarded a Book of Common Prayer dedicated to him by Her Majesty The Queen in recognition of his service. In the meantime he kept up his piano, organ and bassoon lessons.

In March 2005 he decided to play flute, bought one for £100 on e-bay, up-graded to a better one in August and took grade 6 in November. He hadn't had any lessons, but managed 136 (dist). Somewhere along the way, he also acquired the school piccolo. He has been known to kidnap the school's double bass and bring it home over the holidays, and there's a cor anglais in his room at the moment. He plays bassoon, contra-bassoon, and piccolo in the school symphony orchestra; flute, bass flute, cor anglais and piccolo in the wind-band, double bass in the string band, piano for the choir and organ at the carol service. And I understand he played cello for some of the year 4 GCSE performances in March. Oh, and he also plays bassoon and contra-bassoon for the Lady Eleanor Holles (girls school) symphony orchestra. (What a chore for the poor lad!)

In September 2005 he was appointed Organ Scholar at the Chapel Royal and is just coming to the end of his first year. This September he's taking the competition for organ scholarships to Oxford (for entry in 2008) and hopes to go to Christ Church to read music. (Incidentally, organ scholarships are a great way of getting into Oxford or Cambridge if you're interested in playing organ and enjoy the liturgical repertoire.)

A few weeks ago he was invited by the LSSO to tour with them as a bassoonist in the summer. Last weekend the Surrey Youth Choir asked if he could accompany them on tour in July, and yesterday a clarinet teacher called to ask if he could accompany a student for her grade 6 on Thursday. Sadly he has his GCSE chemistry extension paper at the same time.

He's piano 8 (dist. - working on his diploma), organ 8 (dist. - working on his ARCO), bassoon 7 (merit - working on 8), flute 6 (dist. - working on 8), and singing 6 (dist. - from a long time ago). He's also (and I may be biased here) a good kid with a healthy social life. He did his music GCSE a year early (A*) has just done his music AS, and will do A-levels in music, Russian, German and business studies. We've never (not ever) asked him to practice or, for that matter, to tidy his room. He's had to be organized to fit everything in. There's no question that he has benefited massively from his scholarship to Hampton which has given him an extraordinary range of musical opportunities, but he's also worked very, very hard - because he wanted to and has enjoyed doing it.

I think that whatever your child is interested in, all one can do as a parent is give them as much encouragement and support, and as little pressure, as possible.

Best wishes

Barry

Hi Barry

I love your story and you must be very proud of your son. Your experience makes me feel better as most poeple want a specialist in one or two instruments. I guess all I can really do is provide guidance and let my girl sort out where she needs to go.

Incidently your son came to music through singing, My daughter has always said she can't sing and has been told by inexperts that she can't sing. Strangely yesterday she told me she can sing so this is going to be very interesting.

If she's into cornet get her to join a junior band, hopefully the instrument should be provided, the norm in payment is yearly or termly subsidies, which cover the cost of the instrument and tuition, this is often far cheaper than buying an instrument, and then paying for more lessons, the only downside is that the instrument quality isn't that good, although you did mention that she was looking on ebay - so the instruments provided by a band are in almost every case better than those found on ebay.

sorry to be encouraging, but there are a few ways to look on the bright side of your daughters new interest...

I think I was quite similar to your daughter when younger (though not sure if quite as talented...), but I found picking up a new instrument and getting a half-decent sound and a fair few notes quite easy, and my sight reading was pretty good. I played piano from an early age and started flute at around 7 I suppose. I used to pinch my sister's clarinet, my friend's cello and for half a term I managed to get hold of a french horn, which I absolutely loved!!! Also had a hankering after a harp, but never got my hands on one of those...

BUT, my parents insisted (gently but firmly, in a positive but not restrictive way) that I just stick to the two instruments. I think this was in an attempt to limit the expense (time and money) of so many instruments and lessons. In some ways, it was great, because my practice time was more dedicated to just the two (And then organ when I managed to persuade the school to let me at that during free periods - I used to like blasting out loud stuff and imagining the economics class which was just next door!), and I feel like I progressed well and had a lot of opportunities with the piano and flute (orchestras, groups etc.) But also, I would quite like to have had a go at something else, particularly the cello or french horn. So I suppose you just have to judge what you think is right for your daughter and for the family as a whole. I'm not sure how much running around is necessary with all the lessons, it may be that she gets them at school or all in one place or whatever, but you'll know if you can manage more. But if you can't, don't worry too much about saying no to this one. She can always take it up later, and it sounds as if she's got plenty to keep her busy with a bit of imagination. Learning new things can be a bit addictive though - I wonder if she's like this academically too, and just likes learning in general.

You've got me thinking now, though, that I think my sister's clarinet is still languishing unused in my parents' house...wonder if I could get my hands on it...

Thanks Elyph

This was the sort of reply I hoped to get from my posting. Someone who understands my daughters situation and can look back with maturity.

I'm very lucky some of her lessons take place at home and others at the Arts Centre run by the music service. Not too much running around.

Academically, she is able though not outstandingly so. Although it's early days, from experience I know how Children can change once they go to High School. I do think she likes learning and being streached in areas where she feels comfortable. She has been a bit uncomfortable with her class teacher this year, nothing serious they are just very different people, so music has been her escape.

I'm not about to let her take on anything new just at the moment. Neither do I want to be too restrictive but she needs to consider her situation, if she wants Music as a career as she claims then we need to look at options for the future.

I think these truly musical kids are quite unusual - my son is also one aged 13yrs .
Plays and has lessons on 3 instruments ( all at gde 7/8) and singing (gde6).
He too is a musical ' fiddler' - not the string sort, but just fascinated by and able to play to a surprising standard most instruments he manages to get hold of.
He can play recorder, harmonica, almost all percusion, a bit of cello and just to top it off .. the digeridoo (rather tunefully actually)
I'm sure if we could afford more tuition he could select any of these, or for that matter anything else and rapidly progress through grades.

He also strongly shows the Maths / Music relationship .. but that's another topic

Mum of Musicman NZ

Hmm, this discussion is getting interesting! . I didn't respond at first, as I knew there were plenty of kids playing multiple instruments on the forums!

However, I kid myself that I see a faint topic-shift towards the kids who seem to be interested in music as much as they are interested in any one instrument. Perhaps those kids need to keep up their general music skills such as aural or theory skills even more than the kids who focus particularly on one instrument?

Anybody think these kids are particularly fond of composing or arranging music, or is it just that the current generation of kids has better access to composition tools?

I don't feel obliged to provide an instrument to scratch every musical itch, though Viohazard's Dad and I probably would if we could afford the cost and Viohazard could afford the time.

Viohazard is 12, and has just started at a combined junior/senior high school in Japan. I'm glad that he *was* able to do as much music as he wanted at a young age, because the burden of commuting and study has cut his music time down from 3 hours daily to 30 minutes most days. So far he can coast along, but the day will come when he will probably either have to cut back to a single instrument, or conversely, beef up his theory and composition studies, and resign himself to very average academic achievement at school. If we had the option of homeschooling, I might consider it (though Mr. Socialite Viohazard might not thank me!).

I understand what you are saying about the "music as a career????" dilemma, because hours of music a day *do* affect studies (at least, in a system like Japan's), and I worry about the consquences of the choices being made willy-nilly now. It seems to me that the multi-instrument "pan-musical" kid is the one most left out of the specialist music schools - some of these kids will grow up "playing" the whole orchestra and more as their instrument, in fields such as arranging, sound engineering, music education - but the current specialist music school system is still set up to produce soloists and orchestral players, it seems.

MusicmanNZ's Mum, I was just wondering about Musicman, as Viohazard's voice is changing now too. How's the singing? We have cut our didgeridoo collection down to just the one...

Hi Allears

Well after it's initial quite rapid ( over the space of a month) slither Musicman's voice sems to have paused midway down the slide!
He has certainly lost his boy treble - and I think he's about 1/2way down towards a tenor although his countertenor voice is lovely at the moment.
Fortunately he isn't going up and down like a yoyo in singing or speaking so it's not too embarrassing

His singing teacher is away for 2 months so he's having a bit of a break apart from some fun singing and the occassional warm-up exercises. It will be interesting to see whereabouts he is when she returns .. more transposing I suspect!

As his voice goes down his height is shooting up - trousers swirl around at mid calf within weeks of purchase and his arms and legs resemble an anorexic orangutan

The joys of puberty!

Musicman's Mum

You do none of what you suggested and just let your daughter find her chosen instrument.

Be thankful she cares enough about music that she wants to experiment.

Rich.