I've just had a parent on the phone - apparently it is MY fault her dear son isn't ready to do grade 2 this term. I explained that I don't enter children for exams until they are ready and she says she has spent over £300 on lessons this year so he should be ready. Obviously she doesn't mind wasting the exam fee too. I told her to listen to his pieces - she says she's not a music teacher.

This is the second parent that has tried to tell me how to teach in recent weeks.

Apologies for the rant! I am under a considerable amount of pressure at the moment and the last thing I need is parents giving me a load of bull over trivial, time wasting issues when all they have to do do is make sure their children do what I teach them. I have told them both to find a new teacher for next term.

*goes to write letter to aforementioned parent*

Blimey. They don't seem to realise it's not just a case of "having lessons". I wonder if the parents encourage the child to practise in between...?

I hope you get this sorted out amicably, noodle, sounds like an unpleasant and unnecessary situation to be in.

Eeeeep - poor noodle

It's difficult to win in such situations...

Hope my visit isn't part of the pressure you're under!

Sorry you're having a bad time of it, Noodle. Amazing how dreadful parents can be about their little darlings.

At least these two prize specimens will be off your hands soon.

At least you're in a position to give them the shove sorry to hear that, what a foolish parent.

So sorry Noodle - I had one a bit like that once upon a time - used to ring me up every so often and start by telling me she knew nothing about music, then proceed to tell me what I was doing wrong ...
("you're holding him back !!") etc etc.

Needless to say I don't teach this child any more.
I hope you can sort it too Noodle.

Noodle, I'm so sorry to hear you've gone through this. Doesn't the silly creature realise you're saving her son from exam failure??? Lack of progress is always down to lack of practice, or inefficient practice - doesn't this woman realise that? You're well shot of her - nobody needs parents like that breathing down their neck. Hope things get better soon and hope you can put it down to experience - these nightmare parents always have a habit of getting under your skin just when don't need it.

Violinia

Yes, she may have spent over £300 on lessons but if he isn't ready/hasn't put in the work to be ready for his grade 2 then his mother ought to heed your professional opinion noodle.

Hope things get better for you soon.

Oh dear - sounds like you will be pleased to see the back of them! Just take heart that it is them and not you that has failed them. Most people get upset because they know deep down that it is their own fault. You are simply the punchbag here.
Have a nice glass of something cold and strong, and take comfort from the fact that we have all had our share of Mrs Know-it-alls, and we're here to empathise.

Tomorrow is another day....

Ann

Hi Noodle. Been there. Also sick of it. I'm on my third unpaid extra hour with a Grade 5 at the minute - my latest suggestion for an extra leson time "isn't very convenient", apparently, so from now on, I'm with you - if they're not ready, or almost ready, by the entry date, they can stick it where the sun don't shine, or go fail with somebody else! I'm not going to allow this one to be my first faliure in the meantime, though. But we live and learn...

That is so annoying... but remember all the good children and parents you have too.

I would say just put him in for the exam, and then she'll see that he wasn't ready, but at risk of that being your fault if he fails it's probably best to try and get rid of them.

Pushy mum rides again - just a small suggestion - I would pre empt situations like this in future with a monthly progress note - highlighing lack of practice using technical phrases such as "lazy little scrote"

Scrotemother is obviously of the opinion that you are some kind of lower servant which she can order around

I would A Offer to withdraw from teaching her child immediately B Mention that you feel it necessary to pass such information on the exam board and your local teaching colleagues

No one will touch her because I would definitely not

I am thinking of putting a hall infamy on my website of no - showers for lessons and non payers with name and address etc and telling them what I have done

get rid of the trash, forget it, move onwards and upwards with your good pupils

Yes, I know... Sometimes we can make ourselves sound like demons here! I wonder what some of the parents would think if they were to read how much we moan about them!

So how was your career in the Diplomatic service Tony?

Quite agree though.

Just hope the Mum doesn't put him in for the exam herself.

Steve

Quite.

Something which always amazes me is the number of people who think they (or their children) actually improve during the lesson, rather than realising that the lesson is actually showing them how best to improve at home.

Though of course if students don't practice then the lesson IS the only time they improve but yes, I agree, decent progress comes with practice.

"I wonder what some of the parents would think if they were to read how much we moan about them!"

I'm a parent (and ex-piano teacher) and I have been really shocked by the attitude of some of the teachers on this forum. It would appear from what is written that some do not find any pleasure in teaching at all. Having seen the type of thing that some teachers say about pupils and their parents, I shall be much more wary from now on.

Most of the parents/friends I know who encourage their children to learn an instrument treat teachers with respect - pay on time, turn up promptly for lessons (and the pick-up afterwards)and ensure that practice is regular and worthwhile etc etc. We treat the teachers as individuals and do not assume that because one teacher is not professional, that all teachers should be tarred with the same brush. It would be good to feel that teachers return the compliment - there are some awful parents out there, but please do not make the mistake of assuming that all parents are the same.

I believe that for a child to learn a musical instrument well, there needs to be a three-way partnership between teacher, child and parent and each has their own role to play. For this to work, there has to be a mutual respect, otherwise friction arises. I'm sure most teachers are pleased when their efforts are appreciated - "well-behaved" parents would appreciate a similar courtesy sometimes too!

It is not the money spent that matters , it is the hard work that matters. Best thing is to say sorry and be happy with the students you have. Some parents are really funny and you cannot convince them.
Good Luck for you other students

This is very, very true. I remember this being an essay question on a teaching diploma once - "Is practice preparation for the lesson, or is the lesson preparation for practice?" If the pupil doesn't prepare for the lesson, then all we can do is go over the same old stuff again, so we can't prepare them for anything new. We can't say things like, "Well done with that awkward timing, now let's see if we can bring out the left hand melody", etc, etc. (A random example!) Lack of progress, and doing the same thing every week can make a teacher very stale, so for our own sake as well as the pupils', it's important to establish from the word "go" that continuation of lessons is dependent on daily practice.

As a parent and friend of several teachers I like to think that a little respect shown to a teacher goes a long way. I also realise that children need a lot of help and encouragement at home to get the most out of lessons whether it is instrumental or academic. A teacher can't be blamed for a child's lack of progress unless they don't actually try to teach the child anything.
It sounds Noodle as if this is one parent you could do without. good luck with it all.

In response to points raised

1 My parents sit in on the lessons - so they can see what progress is being made I insist on this for my own protection and so that parents can see what progress is being made It may be different with female teachers but for males another adult is essential

2 I regard myself as being responsible for a child during the lesson to impart information - knowledge about technique - musical knowledge and to ensure that the child is encouraged to work after the lesson My responsibilty ends when the child goes home If the parent cannot ensure that the child practices that is their problem not mine There are a lot more distractions for children these days but DISCIPLINE is the parents domain not mine By discipline I do NOT violence or threats or confrontation I mean proper control and regular practicing routines That is the parents role

3 I spell out in clead detail what I expect from the child in front of the parent and any new initiatives are agreed with the parent I tell the child that X amount of practice is required every day which may include interruption to PC games playing TV watching or other pleasurable activities and that memorising and learning are part of playing an instrument

4 Every child and indeed adult will need encouragment and motivation - praise and constructive criticism BUT I cannot practice for them and they should know this

Commiserations Noodle. From the time of your posting it looks as though the parent phoned you rather late in the evening, too, which is not very considerate either.

I hear what you are saying Celloma, and reading some of these posts, I feel very grateful that most of my parents fall into the reasonable and "well-behaved" category. Nevertheless, even the most reasonable parents can sometimes surprise us. In the school where I teach, we give 30 lessons per year. To my surprise one year an otherwise "perfectly reasonable" parent raised a query over the number of lessons her child had received - she pursued this for a few weeks until in exasperation I had to phone her to explain (don't normally phone parents of school-based children). It's something that now raises its head every year with this parent, but I have never failed to give the right number of lessons, and there was absolutely no reason to raise a query in the first place. All very frustrating, and yet this parent was so happy when her child passed grade 1 after about 4 years work!

I don't know what the circumstances are with Noodle's Non-grade-2-taker, but after a few years experience, I now believe that communication is the key - if I think a child is going to progress more slowly than the "norm" I have resolved to tell the parents quite clearly but in the nicest possible way. I seem to have quite a few dyspraxic or dyslexic children among my cohort, and I feel that it's the proper thing to do. I am happy to continue to teach the children as long as they are happy to learn and are not upset by comparing themselves to friends who are progressing much faster.

If 300+ pounds a year gets you a grade 2, then does the 900+ that I've spent get Grade 6?

Hang on a sec! Isn't playing the piano (trumpet, flute, clarinet, marimba, balaleika...etc) supposed to be a pleasurable activity too???

Poor Noodle. How awful for you. Well, at least you got rid of them and good for you! It's very true what Pat said though that it's very important to establish from the word "go" in relation to EVERY student, that continuation of lessons is dependent on daily practice.

It is, but I believe that Tony was simply trying to distinguish between those pleasurable activities that require some work, co-operation and parental input from those other activities that are also pleasurable but require only the ability to stare at a screen like a zombie.

I find driving down country lanes extremely pleasurable, but it required many driving lessons, hard work and some stress to get the licence to drive.

My eldest child reads everything he sees. He knows Harry Potter by heart. I can't imagine him without a book in his hand. Yet I remember him when he was learning, I was pulling my hair out, trying hard to stay calm while he spelt out D.O.G....spells Cat!

We have to work hard for some pleasures. That's life. (I can't believe I said that. I sound just like my old Headmaster!)

Steve

If you read the press you will have seen the story of the headteacher who, with the parents agreement takes away the childs computer or TV or object of distraction

Yes, playing an instrument is pleasurable and children must be motivated and encouraged BUT they also have to have structure and limits as well

I think it's wrong for children to have too many options. For instance, "Do you want to wear this dress or that one?" works much better than "Go and pick yourself something to wear." And "Let's choose what colour to paint your room. You can have blue, pink or yellow." will be a more satisfying decision for the child than "What colour will we do your room?" The choices need to be clear, and within the limits of the child's brain. Ever organised a dinner party? You can come up with a good menu much more quickly if you limit yourself from the offset rather than scratch your head for hours over endless cookery books. Children are even more like this than adults. If too many choices are provided they will flounder.

I have a 'clients charter' up in the room which among other things says
'The purpose of a lesson is to enable a weeks productive practice'


Don't know if anyone reads it but I can always point to it!

I can understand you situation here noodle....parents are often pushy and wish their child to progress as fast as possible. Expeacially asian parents...like my mum....><) sometimes people do not understand learning music isn't just about exam. (although this it the thing which I've just learnt ), just try to sooth the on going conflict down a bit....by tell her that her son is not no good on his skills, but rather you would want him to do his very best and get the top mark. By re-wording what you want to say might make a big difference!! But be patient, try not to get angry is the point.

I quite agree. You have to also recognise that we parents are quite likely to encounter bad as well as good teachers. On the whole I am happy with most of the people who teach my girls, but there are two Peri's that a kick up the ###### might improve. One who takes Mondays off regularly because he does gigging over the weekend, the other who asks pupils to practise concerts for school assemblies that never happen, because she espects that the children will organise it with the head. I will be rid of both in July.

I have taught myself (not Music) so I do understand frustration from a teachers point of view. But it really seems to me that some teachers are never satisfied. A Parent who encourages thier child to practise and provides support is pushy, whilst those who don't are disinterested. I understand anger at late payers, those with kids that don't practise and want them to be as good as those who do. To say I've seen it as a parent is an understatement. It's not just a parent thing it's a society problem. Leading children to believe they can achieve with out work has come about because we are not able to recognise natural ability and celebrate it (I mean generally). Thats down to the ethos in school, particularly primaries, generated by heads and teachers and due to parents who believe their little darling will come good in their own time.

We've just bought our youngest a book, it's the second time we've bought it. Someone asked her to lend it to another child for an exam they should have taken at christmas. She did not take the exam, and we have not seen the book since.

It's true that it is all too easy as a teacher to focus on the one 'difficult' parent and forget the vast majority of parents who do support their children well. It's important too to listen to what parents want for their children - their expectations of lessons can vary greatly. The tension comes, however, when a parent is challenging the teacher's judgement on how advanced their child is - hence this thread. If there is not trust in the teacher's judgement, that parent would be far better finding another teacher for everybody's sake.

I don't condone parents who continually question teachers judgements, I always try to respect thier opinions on progress etc and encourage my children to do the same. I fully appreciate that some parents will have over expectations but communication is key and as an earlier poster mentioned it is 3 way. Just remember parents are adults and we are able to see in some cases whats happening before our children. Sometimes when working in schools Peri's think the parents don't notice whats going on, or because they have little personal experience of them assume they won't be that interested.

Now just as all parents don't fall into the same category all teachers don't either. I've repeatedly said on this forum that our Music Service is excellent, most of it's staff dedicated and committed, however people try it on parents and teachers. Sometimes we all need to take a step back and consider individuality that of teachers, parents and puipils. Some parents will require a lot more communication than others because they don't understand the processes, others will want more information to help them understand. Some will think they know how it works and don't.

Totally agree - communication is vital, and something we as teachers need to keep up continually. Also schools tend to be harder - you don't meet the parents and are sometimes working through an agency who can misguidedly 'protect' teachers from parents by communicating on your behalf. That's been my experience anyway.

Sorry but remarks about peri's and generalisations are meaningless to me I run a teaching business which is entirely funded by me and I am accountable to the pupils and parents thereof The acid test for them liking what I do is commercial - they stay with me I have had my child pupils for between one - three years plus If they did not like me or what I do they can go elsewhere - that is the their decision

The attitude of some parents and they are not always Asian seems to be " you are just a so and so school teacher and we can threaten you and bully you " No you cannot

Also equating teaching music with kids is wrong I teach mostly adults - why because that is what comes through the door in this part of London and Essex

I see myself as no different to any other person who provides a service - I charge a reasonable market price and you get the best I can do - however the contract is that you the pupil or the adult in charge of the pupil must see that proper disciplined practice is carried

I can motivate the child during the lesson but there my job ends

Children are not the only ones who do not understand the connection between practice and improvement - I have encountered "intellignent" people in high powered jobs who think that for them there is a short cut which makes it easier. You can swot and revise for exams and buy back time lost - you cannot with the fingers - does not work

When I first started teaching 5 or so years ago I tried to be as accommodating as possible and found that I just got dumped on - people take advantage

My attitude to teaching is that I, the teacher, decide how things are done. I'm happy enough with the one arriving early for a bounce on the trampoline, and I don't mind the one who stays on to play with the cat - she goes into the other room, is well-behaved, and shouts to let me know when she's off. Where actual teaching is concerned, I try to make it as clear as possible - verbally and in writing - what I expect from pupils and parents, and what they can expect from me. Clarity means there is less likely to be misunderstanding. My fundamental requirements, in this order, are at least 20 mins practice per day, getting to the lesson on time, and paying me within three weeks of getting a bill, and I've had very few problems, apart from the occasional adult pupil. The reason I put the pracice thing first on the list is that pracice = progress = pleased parent and child = teacher's morale is high = they will want to stay with you = they will keep you happy and they will recommend you to others. I've been teaching for ten years now and most of my pupils have been with me for at least four years. If a teacher leads from the front, and practises diplomatic clarity of expectations, most people will fall into line.

Thanks for all your replies in this thread.

I'm glad to report that the child concerned hasn't returned for lessons since the phonecall late that evening. It was only a matter of time - I was intending to stop teaching him at the end of this year anyway. The child concerned isn't the most musical or hard-working so what any teacher could do with him will be limited anyway. He has an older brother who is in the same class at school as two of my best students - the ones who get lots of distinctions, win piano championships at festivals..... I think this might be part of the problem - she doesn't understand why her son isn't as good as them. Can she not see that the variable in the equation is her son - they are all taught the same way, by the same teacher and the other boys practice lots AND do what their teacher tells them.

As for the remark about teachers attitudes to parents, I can't remember who said it. This woman phoned me after 10pm that evening and started shouting at me as soon as I answered the phone. I was extremely calm while she was downright rude and abrupt. It didn't help when I told her to get him a different teacher, but it was the right thing to do. She obviously thinks I am the problem here not her dear child and I'm not sure exactly what she thought she was going to achieve by yelling at me at 10 o'clock at night. The way some teachers are treated by parents is totally unacceptable and I neither want or need the hassle.