I'm not sure whether to make a thing of this or not - there was probably not much danger, but I'm left wondering -

2 or 3 days ago, lesson with an 11 year old girl. I've taught her for a while, nice family, though sometimes a bit disorganised. I'd seen their car outside the house briefly a few minutes before the end of the lesson, and noticed it had disappeared, but thought maybe they'd decided to go and park in the shade along the road a bit.

However when we opened the door, the child's younger brother was sitting on the step. I said hello ( he knows me but doesn't have music lessons), and he said hello but looked a bit lost. I asked if daddy was waiting in the car, and younger child said "no, he's gone". At this point I think we all looked a bit nonplussed, but then the older child said "oh, he's gone to work".

It seemed the two children were to go home together on the bus. (The older one has done this before, but only once, as far as I remember, and not in charge of a younger child). The journey home is probably about half an hour, taking into account the walk to the bus and a possible change in the town centre. I still don't know whether either of them had been told this, or whether the older one worked out what she had to do.

My main worry was the younger child left unattended without my knowledge. The parent would have had to wait only about 3-4 minutes to make contact. I keep thinking, what if he'd wandered off? We live in a fairly quiet area, and that could be a good or a bad point, depending on how you look at it. There's a large country park about a minute's walk away - an 8 or 9 year old could quite easily get lost.

Any comments welcome.

Maggie, that's unacceptable. No parent in their right mind should effectively abandon their child on a doorstep, no matter how responsible the adult in the house is!!

The fact you were not made aware of the situation is extremely worrying, and very inconsiderate of the parent. They should have made you aware of the situation and asked if it were okay for the child to come in and wait at the very least! I would have been very unhappy at a young age to be dumped like that and told to make my own way home. If someone had abducted that child into a car, who was responsible? You?

Personally I wouldn't be impressed at the two having to make the journey home alone, particularly if the older child is not experienced in doing so!

You may remember my wandering 8 year old from a few months back. We then enforecd a policy that she was not to leave our house without the mother physically coming to the doorbell and ringing it so I knew she had been safely picked up, while I was still teaching. Last week she told me at the beginning of her lesson her mother had allowed her to walk home alone as it was daylight and it is only a five minute walk home. I was a little unsure but had to trust her and gave a firm message about road crossing and safety. I've had no panicky phone call this time or read nothing in the papers so I assume she made it home safely!

I do prefer the parents do wait outside in the car, not least because half an hour is too short a time to do anything really (don't live close to major shops) but some chance it and I end up with abandoned adolescent....

I'd mention to the parent your concern for safety and if such an occurence is to happen again, then you must be notified in advance. Again, kids have a tendency to wander off and there was literally no one in charge of his safety.

Hi Maggie

No, I don't think it is acceptable. Occasionally a girl of 10 comes to collect her 8 year-old sister from singing lessons, BUT they live in the next road, and there are no roads to cross, etc.
I agree with your concerns, but what to do about it? Ultimately you are handing over the care of your pupil to no-one. How would YOU stand if anything happened - not just what we are all thinking about, but if one got run over, got off the bus at the wrong stop, got lost, fell over and hurt themselves?
I think a word in the parent's ear is called for. If the time is a problem, could you offer another time when a responsible adult is available to collect her? Either way, I wouldn't be happy to continue teaching her in this situation. Hopefully it was a one-off, but it was very unfair of the parents to put you in that position.

Ann

A child should definitely not have been left on your premises without your knowledge. I think I would raise this with the parents.

Liz

Maggie, you were put in a totally unacceptable position. What if something had happened to the other child?

Even if both children were going home on the bus together (and at that age there would be many a child protection professional prickling at the concept) The parent abandoned the younger child.

I don't know any more about the circumstances, ie where the bus stop is relative to your house, but this makes me feel very uneasy.

I would be very interested to hear a social workers comment about this. It smacks of abandonment.

Maggie, I think this is totally unacceptable and although it is only natural for you to be concerned and worried, the father is ultimately responsible for this. I'm almost certain that it isn't legal for an 11 year old to babysit a younger child, never mind take them on a 30 minute bus journey. Surely the sensible thing to do in this case would be to ask you to let the child out of the lesson 5 or so minutes early so he could take the two of them home. What also concerns me is who was looking after them when they got home - or were they there alone??

Children older than these two have been abducted and in this day and age such young children should never have been left to make their own way home. As jod says, they were abandoned, and I think neglected. Neglect is a form of child abuse, I wonder does their father realise this.

I agree with all the previous posts - it was completely unacceptable to leave the little brother unsupervised on your property without your knowledge. There are real safety and child protection issues here.

Does anybody have any information regarding the legal age at which a child can be left unsupervised? I think we'd find it very helpful.

It is apparently not clear but under 16s cannot be held responsible, the parents have the ultimate responsibility for their actions in leaving a child in the care of an under 16. I guess kids mature and can take on responsibilities at different ages depending on each individual, so there is no age specified in law.

http://www.premier.org.uk/engine.cfm?i=71&pcr=3&bhcp=1

I think it's 14 before a child is considered old enough to be home alone, I think this is also the age they can babysit

This situation Maggie is unfair on you and the children. One option is to have a word with their school, or a child protection professional, but if the parents find out they may not be pleased.

In this instance you need to cover yourself, if you don't want to make it official drop a note to the parents stating the older Child must be collected.

No there is no age specified in law (see my post and link above)

"The English law is not clear as to what age a child should be when he or she is left unsupervised. It is not based on a specific age. However, parents can be prosecuted for wilful neglect if they leave a child alone "in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health" (Children and Young Persons Act 1933)".

I don't teach young children but I would think you should have been made aware, even asked as a matter of courtesy. Legalities aside, it is very worrying that young children were left in this position by their parents. I would not have appreciated this as a child, and certainly wouldn't do it to mine if I had children. They are vulnerable to all sorts of things. And of course, just having someone on your property without your knowledge is also unacceptable.

I think it's fine for the 11-year-old to be able to make her own way home - where I live, most Year 7's and even some Year 6's usually make their own way back from school - even right across town (Bath). What the dad shouldn't have done, however, was leave the younger child on your doorstep without informing you. My guess is that the mum and dad didn't communicate properly and the dad didn't realise he was meant to knock on your door and let you know the little boy was there. She probably said 'drop him off at Maggie's house', never dreaming he'd just leave the boy there without informing you. Without wishing to offend any men here, I do think some dads can be a bit hapless in this department... That's my guess anyway.

Tell the mum what happened, she'll give the dad an earful and it'll never happen again.

Violinia

Maggie, I agree with the other posts that this is most unacceptable behaviour on the part of the father. I also think you should telephone the parents and suggest that, if his time schedule is really tight, the child may leave a few minutes early (perhaps make up the time at a later stage when time is not of the essence). Then the father can take the children home before he goes wherever he has to go.

Nothing like this has ever happened to me, and I always make the children wait in the porch for parents if they are not yet there.

In effect, this father has abandoned his child at your house and you really should have a few words with him about it.

Thanks everyone for your replies. It may well be that this episode is a one-off, because normally contact with dad is good, and I can remember only one other time in about two years that he hasn't collected his child. I have dad's email, home phone and mobile. I think mostly the time does work out ok for them - dad normally rings the bell and we have a chat at the end of the lesson.

However, I don't have contact with the mother. I've met her a couple of times, but I don't have her phone number, much less an address. The child lives with her during the week (not locally) and with dad at weekends, so a weekday lesson is not a possibility. It's only ever dad who drops and collects at weekends.

I will certainly have a word with the father - I have e-mailed him to indicate that I want a word. I need to make it clear to him that this must not happen again, and that if there are problems he must let me know first. He could certainly have picked up a few minutes early if he needed to - the child has an hour's lesson so we 'd still have got through the most important things.

a girl of 10 comes to collect her 8 year-old sister from singing lessons, BUT they live in the next road, and there are no roads to cross, etc.

AnnC I think that's fine. A bit of the right sort of responsibility is good, as long as it's properly thought through. I do believe that children need opportunities to build confidence to do things without an adult. We used to let our son walk to the shop when he was 9 or 10 - supervised him crossing our road directly outside our house, then it was just around the block, and we'd look out for him coming back. (He'd had much more freedom between ages 5 - 9 in the Far East, where children travelled quite long distances eg to and from school on public transport without an adult. By the time he was 8 or 9 he was doing most of the 55 min journey from school on his own - I used to meet him at a subway interchange. It was actually quite difficult returning to the culture of "unsafe-ness" prevailing here in the UK).
Jod, the bus-stop is about 3-4 mins walk away, on "my" side of the main road, so not too bad, just one side road to cross on the way. I think the 11 year old is fairly sensible, and didn't seem particularly worried.

Violinia, I think like you I was more concerned about the " unannounced dumping" than the bus journey. I will find out what happened anyway and have whatever words are necessary. It's possible there was some kind of emergency I suppose, but it had better be good!

Thanks again to all - I will keep you posted.

Maggie

I agree with Violinia's comments. But also you might need to cover yourself by confirming your conversation with the father either by email or in writing so that you have it in black and white in case of future occurrences (or worse, heaven forbid).

I have known of situations where kids have been dumped and the parent has disappeared The legal implications are horrendous if anything goes wrong

I also have had adult pupils who want to bring a very small child ie toddler to the lesson I refuse because
! I am not a nursery
2 We have cats - who are amiable but only up to a point or points if its claws and teeth

I was just going to say the same thing.

In fact I would consider sending a polite email rather than talking to him. It can be in a very friendly tone - after all, you don't know exactly what happened to make him do that - but it should in some way explain exactly what happened and the fact that you'd prefer it not to happen again. That way, you're covering yourself should anything dreadful happen in the future.

Steve

Maggie, 3-4 minutes walk on your side of the road make the bus thing sound much better. When I was at 6th form college, there were a number of children from the local prep school who travelled by bus alone, and certainly in London I frequently saw year 7 children travelling to School by bus alone.

You are right to email the dad re leaving the 8 year old on your door step as that is totally unacceptable. If you were happy to be in loco parentis for a few minutes whilst the lesson ended that is one thing, but just leaving is another.

I offer my lounge to parents with other siblings, but I would be unhappy they just left their child! But then the local bus stop is not three minutes walk away, it is ten and involves crossing a busy road.

My children however do play in the lounge and locked back garden whilst I teach on a Thursday. But then my children are my responsibility, and they know if the worst happens I'm only in the dining room. Matti also has the option of the computer (not on the net) and his radio/cd player in his bedroom. And it's the day they're allowed more than 30 minutes TV each, so they can watch all sorts of things they want.

I think it is really up to the parents (in this case dad) to decide what their children can and can't do in terms of catching buses, making their own way home and so on. All children are different and mature at different rates, and the parents will know what they can manage. Also, we don't know what strategies are in place to make sure the children are OK - perhaps dad has agreed to call their mobile in ten minutes, or for them to call him when they arrive, or whatever. I really think it is the concern of the parents to deal with this sort of thing, and legally it is the parent who would be responsible if anything happened, not the teacher. I do agree though that out of courtesy he should have let you know in advance, and you could have perhaps come to an agreement about finishing early, or letting the younger child into the house for the last few minutes. But I think suggesting that this is neglect or child abuse is a bit extreme.

After I had my second child, I suffered from post-natal depression, and both the Child and Family team and social services were involved. As a result I now know what they view neglect as. But as my experience with social services was utterly negative, and I got fed up with anonmous tip-offs for whe i was "neglecting my children" when I was not, I would always talk to the parent first.

Explain that the way things were done could be viewed as neglect, and express your concerns, because if someone else in your street saw what had happened, they may not be so charitable.

How did you get on with this one Maggie?

I think dad understands that it must not happen again. The journey home apparently passed off smoothly and they arrived safely. I made it clear that it was not acceptable to dump the child and disappear and I think he took that on board and realised that I'd been concerned.

Thanks to all for your input and support!