Hi.
I'd like info/input from anyone with an opinion on the tonal quality and power of sound of different makes of flute. I've got a Trevor James and it seems to me like the 3rd register is very sharp unless I play quietly.
Would anyone recommend flute makes that have a richer sound/tone and more powerful sound?
Thanks

Ok well I'd say it has less to do with the make of flute or the flute it's self and more to do with the player. What I'd suggest is investing a technique book like Trevor Wye and work through some of that it could take anything from a few weeks to years to improve your sound. And it can be a long, slow and painful process! There's no easy fix but it feels fantastic when you start to notice the difference in your sound. Probably not what you wanted to hear but It's cheaper option than buying a new flute.

I agree with Jen, and the Trevor Wye books are great. However, sometimes your flute can make a difference too.

I play a Sankyo CF201 and the tone quality and power is great, I love it. It's very versatile, and even the low notes have lots of power and all notes have great tone colour.

When I was buying my flute, I also tried a Miyazawa- that was almost as good as the Sankyo

I'd also agree with Jen. Flutes, irrespective of make, tend to play sharp in the 3rd octave (something to do with all the cross fingerings); some notes are worse than others. You have to have sufficient embouchure control to play the notes in tune (& hopefully beautifully as well ). Trevor Wye's books are very good as Jen & Kimble have said.

So does this mean NO flute has a richer sound in the 3rd register? or more powerful sound?? It's hard to get heard over a windband!!

Not exactly - but the flute itself is only part of the whole picture. Far more is down to the person playing it. For instance I have a Miyazawa (which is limited purely by me ) & yes overall I much prefer it over my 9y.o's Yamaha 211 but when I play his I still expect to play in tune with a good focused beautiful sound.
Edit : Have thought about this & actually it's more relevent to say that I've had my flute for 17 months now & I get a far bigger, better, more resonant & beautiful sound from it now than when I started playing it. The flute hasn't changed but the way I can play has.

There's a great soundfile on the web of James Galway playing 3 flutes, one a silver student flute, one gold, one platinum. He sounds pretty much the same, and pretty amazing, on all 3. A better flute will give you more flexibility and more tone colour choices, but till your embouchure is developed sufficiently you won't be in a position to make use of that.

Basically, a good flute is a lovely thing to play, but when it comes down to it, "it's not the flute you blow, it's how you blows yer flute!" With time and practice, you will be able to get sounds you wouldn't have credited from your simple TJ flute - and you will be in a position to exploit the capabilities of a better flute.

Re: being heard over a band, you may well be underestimating how well you can be heard. Sometimes I can hardly hear myself in church on a Sunday morning, but it doesn't stop people in the congregation from hearing me well enough to comment on my playing.

I agree with everything the above posters have said, but from my short lived flute trying experience I will give my slightly biased opinion:

Between Altus and Miyazawa, Altus tend to have a darker, richer "purple" sound, whereas Miyazawa have a sweeter sound - at first this attracted me to the Miyazawa but my teacher persuaded me that Altus is more versatile, and so I got that one

I have to say that I'm not sure if the fact that a flute has an individual sound, the player will not compensate and exaggerate the sound - does that make sense? For example if you play a Miyazawa and realise it sounds sweet, you'll do what you'd do on your normal flute if you wanted it to sound sweet, and hence make the sound even sweeter. That's only a theory so y'know, thoughts appreciated but don't take it as serious


If you're looking for more depth in the high register, as somebody up there said, get a good book like the Trevor Wye tone one, and try the high register stuff. What I find useful is to start really low, around low G, and get my tone really gorgeous and rich, and then play chromatic scales - the point is to keep the sound as rich and full as it was on the starting note. Tips: aim for the same place on the riser (edge you blow against), don't raise the airstream; increase the air speed and support as you get higher....

Yeah for more try here, Jen's a flute expert! Jen Cluff's flute site - high register tone


Hope I've helped!

How strange, I've seen the altus described elsewhere as having a relatively sweet sound. I guess it depends on the listener too!


Not sure I know what you mean?



I agree, Jen is great.

Different flutes, same player - play the last audio clip - James Galway demonstrating graphically that it's the way you blow your flute....

(Ok I can't seem to work the quotey button....)


I think it must, it's probably more a matter of personal preference - but while I was testing Altus vs Miyazawa with my teacher I did feel the Miyazawa was less flexible than the Altus - but then I've not played Miyazawa for any length of time so.... yeah, I'm biased - I love my Altus!




Lol me neither really I think I mean that when I was trying the Miyazawa, I realised it sounded sweet, but I made the sound sweeter too with my embouchure, because the flute sounded sweet. Whereas with the Altus, even now I still play really dark in the lower registers because the first thing I noticed about it was that it was dark low down.

Maybe that's just me and my weird way of playing!

I think it's natural to be biased toward your own flute

That audio clip is rather humbling isn't it?

I agree with comments about the Altus flutes. When I looking for the professional flute I have now (a brannen-cooper), I nearly spent a ###### of a lot of money on a very good Altus. It was my favourite until I found this little baby!!!! Lots of my friends whilst I was at RNCM played on Altus's. These were all top end of the range and were very good, but I've never tried an intermediate one, sorry!!! Though it sounds like the quality is just as good.

You need to work more at your high register. The flute you're on should be fine for the standard that you are. You need to learn to lower the air stream so flatten the pitch. When we play high, we blow faster, so even if you think you're blowing straight across, the air stream will actually be wuite high. If you think about blowing into your flute more, the air stream should only rise to a normal position, therefore should be more intune!!!

I'm not sure if this makes sense!!! Let me know if you don't understand!

I know lots of people love Altus flutes, but when I tried one I reeeeally couldn't get in with it, and I didn't feel at all comfortable with it and my sound wasn't as good. It definitely just depends on what suits you and the type of sound that you make, IMO.

Kimberley

Hmmm....sorry i cant really help - I'm always seriously flat!! The Trevor Wye tone books are very good, even if a bit tedious.

WOW I've had tons of good advice here. Thanks.
I'm using Trevor Wye tone exercises, there-in lies the problem. having done the lower and middle register, I've spent the last month trying to add in the high register...... and it hurts my ears!!!! I'm sharp sharp sharp no matter what I try. I try so hard and long I end up spliting them, which I know is my embouchure needing a rest. I have lovely rich tone in the low register, and not bad at all in the middle. But high is sharp as a knife. I've printed off some of Jen's stuff to try, but that will mean trying to change my embouchure which is scarey with a concert in 3 weeks. I DO pinch tight. It's hard not to. I also grip too tight with my fingers. again hard not too cos is an unconcious thing. I push too hard against my chin...... it makes the lip-plate slip down, so I have to keep adjusting it up or spit everything. Trouble is, while I know what I'm doing wrong,....... I can't seem to put it right. I dont turn-in, but the sliding down makes it turn in. I'm just frustrated by it all.... Iguess that's really why I was asking about other flutes... wishing I could blame the flute and that replacing it would solve the problem, but I know that's not gonna work. sorry.

What does your teacher say about it?
And I really sympathise about not wanting to change what you're doing when you've got to be able to play at something very soon. Are you sure you're sharp in pitch or is it just thin & sharp in sound quality?
Perhaps be a bit kinder to yourself in what you're expecting of yourself. For the length of time you've been playing having 2 registers sorted out is really good going. The 3rd is hard work - I'm still trying to sort it out

I found this exercise: http://forums.abrsm.org/index.php?s=&showt...ndpost&p=167329

...really, really helpful!

Don't beat yourself up about it - you still haven't been playing that long and it does take time for the embouchure to cope up there (I'm still working on it, myself.... !)

DON'T spend ages and ages/beat yourself over the head with it. As you have discovered you will tire your embouchure out and also stress yourself out, which is totally counter-productive!

Move slowly into the top register, a little at a time. Don't go pushing yourself up into the stratosphere till the foundations are well and truly laid.

It IS hard not to pinch, esp when you feel that's your only chance of getting up there, but if it IS the only way you're getting up there then you need to keep working a bit lower down I think, because it probably is (I think...) partly because your lips are not quite "there", and trying to go beyond where you're able to with good embouchure will probably just cement bad habits rather than help you. If you *have* to pinch to get those notes, then you'll end up pinching just because that's "what you do". Have patience with yourself!!


Don't apologise, I think we all have times like that (I do.... ) - it'd be nice to think that we could sound like professionals if only we had the right flute

And I totally agree with Andrea - you're doing great, don't be so hard on yourself! The 3rd register is really difficult just to get reasonable, let alone to get really in tune and with good tone etc. (tis the bane of my LIFE!) It's a pain in the proverbial, and you're not the only flautist who's ever gone "argh " with frustration at it, honest - *to my knowledge* I'm not sure I've ever met anyone who *hasn't* had problems with it at some point.

Give yourself a pat on the back for doing really great so far, and treat yourself with kindness and patience. It WILL come

Definately both sharp on the (now what do you call the tone machine, clean forgot! duh) and thin & sharp in sound quality. Darent' pull head out though cos low register is very slightly flat on machine, but sounds rich and strong. Middle reg is in tune and strong with most if it fairly rich. My teacher keeps telling me not to pinch my mouth for high reg, but it's really hard not to. I still don't have the full range yet..... working up gradually, on A now so Ab to C fingerings to learn.
I know what you both mean about not pushing too hard, being realistic, etc. But it's hard not to want to be there expecially as I'm now in an amateur orchestra AND a windband (and the windband just lost its sole flute so I'll be sooooooo exposed!!!!) But they're all great people and good fun to be with and play with and I don't want to mess-up for them. So it's hard to have patience...........
I'll go check out that link now sarah, thanks to both of you

Can't claim to be an expert - but I know it's possible to end up with a rich low register/OK middle register/impossible to control high register if you turn in too much. I used to do that - blew down into the flute too much, had it much too much turned in... very sweet for the low register but makes the higher notes very difficult and rather restricted in sound.

I *don't* know if this is the case with you - but it's certainly something worth checking. I used to play like that partly from being badly taught and partly because it was the easiest way to get a rich tone in the lower half of the range. Changing my embouchure was a real fag, and at first I sounded terribly breathy till my embouchure got stronger, but in the end it helped even out the tone through the range somewhat and made the top register much easier and more in tune (though still far from perfect as yet ) - I can't claim to be terribly experienced but it's a mistake that one often reads about in flute books or flute mailing lists, so I think it's rasonably common. Would it be worth checking with your teacher/in a mirror to see whether you're too turned in/covering too much of the hole with your lip?

It is hard to have patience... you have much sympathy and empathy from all us flautists

Thanks Sarah : I don't turn the headjoint in too far, cos I have the hole lined up on the keys and the keys on top, so the hole faces the ceiling. Never sure how much of the hole I cover though......... I still find it very difficult getting the flute in the right position on my lips without seeing where it is. And I still put too much pressure on my fingers and gradually push the flute downwards against my lip (it actually slides down so I have to keep repositioning it). My teacher just says don't grip so tight, lol, but that really isn't easy while concentrating on the music. I do practice with the chromatic scale, and use a much lighter touch then, but find as soon as I stop paying attention to it my fingers grip tighter again. Anyway I find it really hard to guage where my lip is or how much hole is covered.

I have the gripping problem, I am much better than I was, but I still get really tense and grip the flute rather than play the keys lightly!