I felt quite upset today when, whilst 'signing out' of a school, I asked the secretary how many wwind pupils there would be in Sept. and she said 'Oh, just the usual ... minus the year 6 leavers of course'.

'What!? No new ones then?' I ask. 'Er, no ...' she says, somewhat sheepishly, '... Mrs Headteacher has decided not to offer it next year'.

It appears that Mrs HeadT and the 'music coordinator' (who? I find myself thinking; I've never met or heard of such a person in this school, and from what the children tell me they don't have any class music lessons) decided to send a questionnaire to parents asking if they wanted their child to take up an instrument (and presumably, if not then why not).

It seems that parents were not in favour of instrumental lessons, 'mainly' because they didn't want the children to miss school lessons. For Heaven's sake!!! Lessons are 15 minutes long (well, SHORT, actually, far too short). What's so important or difficult to catch up with that they can't miss 15 mins of it once a week?

I've not had any complaints from parents of existing pupils, and none of them are giving up, as far as I know. However, the year 6 teacher is sometimes a bit 'funny' about letting kids come on time if they're in the middle of something. This results in me staying later to give them their full quota of time, which means I leave late, barely having time to do the journey to my next port of call 21 miles away, so I end up working a 7 hour day with no break!

My suspicion is that Mrs HT sees instrumental lessons as being a bit of a hassle, and worded the 'questionnaire' in such a way as to elicit a negative response from parents. Perhaps something along the lines of:
'If you do not wish your child to have instrumental lessons, is it because you do not wish them to have their education and future career totally blighted and wrecked by missing a whole 15 minutes of PE or maths EVERY SINGLE WEEK? Please tick yes or (if you are an irresponsible, neglectful parent) no.'

In a way I feel sorry for Mrs HT (not to mention the 'mythical' mus. coord) for being such philistines, but maybe my sympathy is wasted on them! But what makes me so sad is that future 'generations' of children in this school look like being denied the chance to learn an instrument (unless they 'go private').

I now feel rather uncomfortable about the little 'concert' my pupils are putting on for the school next time I'm there, if there's such hostility in the air (wish I'd never suggested it now). But I shall try to rise above it, and make an even greater effort to enable my kiddies to feel a sense of enjoyment, pride and achievement in their performances. So there!

Allegra

Words totally fail me Allegra.

It's been said in many other threads, but what this head teacher appears to be doing is both short-sighted and terribly sad. It has been proved time and time again how having music lessons is beneficial to the child and yet we still have awful situations such as this.

And yes, I'd put that concert on, absolutely. I am sure it'll go brilliantly.

You have my utmost sympathy Allegra -and I and no doubt other forum members would be more than interested in what happens in the future.

I can really sympathise with you. I've had the same problem, although luckily this attitude is not a feature of all of my schools.

In my better schools they run a rotational timetable so that the children are not missing the same lesson every week and they actively encourage children to learn an instrument (in one school the PTA subsides the cost of lessons and instruments so that lessons are available to more children!).

However, in my 'worst' school they seem to be doing everything possible to discourage new learners and I quite often have problems teaching the existing ones - there's always some other activity going on that they can't be released from or some reason why they can't have their full lesson time. I'm now in the situation where the remainder of my children will leave in summer 2007. I've decided that even if the school changes it's mind and want to keep the music - it won't be with me as the teacher. It's their loss!

This is such a familiar tale. At one school music lessons were considered elitist (even though they were freely availabe to anyone who wanted them) because I taught them to read music rather that giving them letter names

Trying to teach Y6 children becomes increasingly difficult as the obsession with SATs dominates the whole environment. Even the children are sometimes afraid to come to lessons in case they miss some literacy or maths (which I avoid for Y5/6 anyway) even though they have lessons in this every single day.

W

Hi Allegra
I feel so sorry for you. I can understand completely how you feel as I had a similar situation when I taught recorders in a local primary school. I had over 40 children in groups of 4 to 5. The children loved it and many went on to other instruments very successfully. BUT what a battle with the teachers! I understand they are under pressure with these ridiculous SATS things but really!! One Year 3 teacher told me she was horrified to discover one child knew nothing about the Tudors as she had missed this lesson to play recorders! The child was 7! She could hardly tell the time let alone understand who the Tudors were. What is more important - the chance to learn an instrument with all the co-ordination, determination, intelligence that this involves or learning about the Tudors...
I have had 2 children go through primary school and I know which leson I would prefer them to have.

I also put on 2 concerts a year (voluntarily) where all children who played instruments had a chance to perform. I would grit my teeth and do it because I knew how much the children got from it all.

I do think it is short-sighted of the schools to curtail instrumental lessons. It is certainly not what the Government want from schools. I wonder if it is worth raising with your Local Education Authority?

Anyway I just wanted to commiserate with you. Good luck with whatever you decide.

I don't see the problem with missing a few lessons in a primary school. It's not as if the work is THAT important. People doing GCSE's etc manage to catch up on about 30mins of important work which they missed for music lessons no problem.

Thanks for your words of sympathy, Barry-clari & Allanah! I think this situation does seem to be 'a sign of the times' in certain schools, and it would seem that some heads don't keep 'up to speed' with educational research!

Having calmed down a bit, after my rant, I suppose I should focus my thoughts on the schools where music IS valued (and therefore those who PARTICIPATE in music are valued):

e.g. last week I went to a concert at one of my schools (my flute & clarinet groups were playing a couple of pieces). There were loads of instrumental items (solos on a variety of instruments, duets, group pieces etc) in the first half, and a musical play, involving EVERY key stage 2 child, in the second half. It was a brilliant evening, and I'm sure that being a part of such an occasion was an experience those children will never forget!

Why can't music be like this in all schools? (she says, naively AND rhetorically!). Of course, it makes a difference that THIS head is a musician! It's a pleasure to work in an environment like this (AND I get a cup of tea!!)

Re rotas, I do operate them in secondary schools, but primary kids seem to have enough difficulty remembering to come at a fixed time!

I ought to have grown a thicker skin after all these years, and not take things to heart (my last 'boss' said I cared too much about the job!)

Allegra

I couldn't put it better - just wanted to add my sympathy and support.

I had an experience a few years ago where I was approached by a primary school PTA who were very keen to get some recorder teaching going as there was no instrumental teaching in the school at all. Well, when the head talked to me about it, he informed me that it would be quite impossible for children to come out of classes to have instrumental lessons as 'the school would fail its next OFSTED if we had that sort of thing going on'. I knew perfectly well that that was a blatant lie - I've had an OFSTED inspector in the room watching recorder groups in another school and the school certainly didn't fail. There are just some people out there who can't see any value or enrichment in music and it's really sad that some of them are in senior managment positions where they can deny chances to a whole school full of children.

I wonder what the parents of the next year's new intake will say at your school, Allegra. when they see other years enjoying and benefiting from lessons but are told that it's not an option for their kids? Is it too much to hope that they might ask awkward questions of Mrs HT?

This is disgusting schools sould be encouraging kids to learn music! I hated school because music was not encouraged at all, i've never had one lesson at school because of the reason you only get 15 mins!

The music department was under staffed and had next to no facilities the head didn't see the point in providing them, my head of house even told me if i don't concentrate on academic subjects i'm not going to get anywhere he also asked me to give up music through the whole of year 11 because i was struggling with english and science GCSE! Well maybe that had something to with that i moved to england aged 10 knowing no english what so ever not that i played music!

Well as for getting nowhere maybe not academically but i am 17 driving a sports car, enjoying my job and loving music, teaching music and working towards my dip (hopefully in the winter!) I've took on 2 new instrument doing my gd. 5 in one and a grade 1 challenge in the other!

Music has helped me a lot even though i'm an estate agent by trade the music has given me the confidence to face people and sell! I'm not a nervous person and this comes from doing concerts!

Music gices such a lot more than most academic subject do: it gives you a skill, recognition, enjoyment, confidence, an artistic flair (i believe so!), certificates (if you want them!) and much more!

I am so angry with school discouraging music for children! If i was the prime minster there would be free lessons for certain children in schools so everyone has a fair chance to learn an instrument with try out days so those who may not see instruments often will see heare and have a go music is something that NEEDS to be encouraged!

Lets set up a campain!

[quote name='margaret' date='Jul 5 2006, 09:04 PM' post='354332']

I also put on 2 concerts a year (voluntarily) where all children who played instruments had a chance to perform. I would grit my teeth and do it because I knew how much the children got from it all.

- Yes, I think I'll be smiling through gritted teeth (it's lucky that I'll be accompanying, not 'blowing'!)

I do think it is short-sighted of the schools to curtail instrumental lessons. It is certainly not what the Government want from schools. I wonder if it is worth raising with your Local Education Authority?

- Mm, might mention it to my 'superiors' in the Music Service. It may just be a 'one off', I suppose, but could be symptomatic of something more widespread.

[quote name='rachelviolin' date='Jul 5 2006, 09:16 PM' post='354349']


I wonder what the parents of the next year's new intake will say at your school, Allegra. when they see other years enjoying and benefiting from lessons but are told that it's not an option for their kids? Is it too much to hope that they might ask awkward questions of Mrs HT?

- Well, rachelviolin, I hope the current pupils' parents ask awkward questions about why Mrs HT won't invite them to the forthcoming concert. She reckons there won't be enough room with the rest of the school there. Really! How many parents can 9 kids generate at 10.30 in the morning? Some of the kids were so disappointed when I told them.
Allegra

At the school I mentioned earlier, the children were not allowed to perform in the end of year concert because the music stands would get in the way!

W

Unfortuanately, this sort of attitude has been around for a long time (in secondary schools at least). I had violin lessons in primary school and it was never a problem. At secondary school I wanted to learn the oboe and was offered the flute instead. I took lessons for the first year but in the end decided I couldn't stand the hassle for an instrument which wasn't really the one I wanted anyway. My flute lesson was in maths one week and PE the next. Every time I asked the maths teacher for permission to leave (I was in the top set and used to get 100% for my exams) he used to shout at me and tell me what a waste of time music was and how I would never pass my 'O' level. P.E was pretty much the same. Depending on what we were doing I would be accused of making my team lose the game because they were going to be one short, of being lazy and I've forgotten what else. She would never let me have an extra five minutes to get changed so on the weeks when it was in PE I always used to be late for my flute lesson.
When I was in the third year we got a new music teacher who was fantastic, and amongst other things, set up an orchestra. Occasionally there would be a practice or a performance during lesson time and again some teachers could be extremely disagreeable about it. I remember a friend of mine being given detention for missing an English class (although the music teacher later managed to have it removed). When I was in the lower sixth my French teacher initially gave me 0 for the oral part of the mock exam as she decided to hold it during the lesson which I was missing to take a piano exam. There was no reason why we had to do it that day and I had told her in advance I wouldn't be there and why. My form teacher intervened to make her give me another chance to do it. I could go on...

I can only add to what others have said and say I really sympathise with you. I just teach in one state school at the moment and am lucky in that music is a hugely valued and strong part of the school. Even so, we have last minute events/trips etc to work round-but I think the difference is in the attitude of the school. I would definitely talk to your music service and see what they can do to support you.

I teach freelance at my local primary school on three afternoons a week.

When my children were there back in the 80s, music was thriving in the school. The full range of peris came round for the Junior-age children, there was a large choir, and I taught recorders (free of charge at that time - I was putting my bit back into the school, as my own children were there) to many of the children.

After my kids left, I spoke to the Head because I felt that if they wanted me to continue they should now pay me, as I was giving many hours of my time to the school each week. In short, they DID want me, but DIDN'T want to pay, so I stopped teaching there.

Through the grapevine over the years I heard that they had also stopped having all the Local Authority music provision, and that there was very little going on musically.

About 5 years ago I met one of the teachers, whom I knew from when my children were at the school, by chance in the street. She had been given the role of Gifted and Talented co-ordinator, and as an amateur musician herself was keen to get music back into the school. We agreed that I would come in and run a choir, recorder groups and also a couple of individual lessons for especially promising pupils, with the G&T fund paying for my time.

This worked very well - everything was progressing satisfactorily and music was becoming quite high-profile when......the Head left. What in retrospect it seems was a 'cowboy' Head came in, and promptly set about causing mayhem. The G&T teacher would face constant harrassment over any spending that wasn't on computer hardware or sports things. This Head only lasted a year before she was booted out, but she did SO much damage to the workings of the school.

A 'supply' Head came in for a term, who was supportive of music, and things began to return to an even keel, although by now the children's parents were having to part-pay for the lessons.

Then another Head came, another one with a 'mission to destroy'. She said there was no money available for music (not true, she just wanted to spend it on things like a lovely office for herself!!). Everyone had to bear the full cost of their music lessons (so the children of the more financially-challenged parents were forced to stop - it broke my heart, as some of them were really able pupils), and she dismantled my choir completely. It was all SO depressing

That Head then left (dismissed due to incompetence and suspect money-allocation) and since the beginning of this year we have a really positive and dynamic new Head. She rubs some people up the wrong way, but has always been fine with me, and lets me do pretty much what I want, as she knows that I am reliable and have been associated with the school for so long.

I now have 6 private pupils there (they pay their own way), about 30 recorder players in group lessons of 4-6 children (heavily subsidised by the school) and a thriving choir again. My only problem is, as others have mentioned, that teachers often don't let the children come to my lessons promptly, and this drives me wild, because I have to get home by a certain time to do my private teaching here, so I can't stay at school any later than my timetabled time, however much I might want to!

How harsh is that!! The Head should be doing moere to encourage it! and the children need a break - they can't sit an do maths for hours on end! at our school music seems to be dying out - as there are only two music teachers, one is a cover for maternity, and one isn't even a music teacher!! there are still peri lessons happening, but there seems to be fewer people playing now than when i started.

Go ahead and put on your concert! Tell the audience of children and teachers how much your pupils enjoy their lessons, show them some of the things that your pupils do apart from just performing pieces. Kids are always interested! Play a scale or two, and show the instruments, tell them what they are called and at the end even let one or two of the kids in the audience come up to have a go making sounds on them if possible. Let them all see whaty fun it is. I bet you will get some follow up requests for lessons. Good luck.

What - as in Health & Safety concerns?

Unbelievable yet, sadly, most believable.

Wow! This teacher must be incredible if she can teach the children about the Tudors in 15 Mins.

Get real! This is just the attitude of teachers who think they know everything important. What ever gives them a right to choose for parents. I'm sorry to say this must be endemic all over the country.

Bet they have got time for daft sports like 1K sponsored runs, for athletics spikes, which really do only benefit a small minorit! The more annoying thing is a girl who left 2 years ago has just returned her spikes via her sister. Money would have been better spent on a couple of decent keyboards.

Allegra

Do you know any parents from that particular school? I bet there was no such survey, they've made it up because they don't wanr subjects the children understan better than they do.



Thats even funnier than getting the wrong music on a CD!

It does make a huge difference. At the time I was at my secondary school, the head was a music enthusiast, came to all the concerts, supported the music dept: result? The department thrived, we had 2 orchestras, a jazz group, 2 choirs, a chamber orchestra, chamber groups, singing groups... and so on, despite an antagonistic HOM who had trouble keeping hold of staff. A couple of years after I left, the head retired (we did a reunion concert for him) and the new headmistress didn't care for music and was into sport. Result? The school is now a sports academy, with tours and good results - and the music dept is struggling to maintain one orchestra, choirs, and a jazz band, and all, from friends' comments, at a considerably lower standard than previously

At my daughter's school this year our Head Teacher has taken instrumental lessons out of his school budget so that basically we parents do not have to pay a single penny for tuition, we only have to hire an instrument from the education board if we do not have one of our own.

We are very lucky to have this HT because the school quite literally round the corner have to pay the full whack and as a result a lot of children have dropped out. It is a great pity when music isn't encouraged in this age group.

elizabeth

Well, thanks everyone for your comments & messages of support!

It is SO unfair that, at a time when the government purports to be improving instrumental music provision there is still such variance in what is available in primary schools (and secondary, too). It really does seem to be 'the luck of the draw', at any moment in time, as to whether a school will nurture and cherish an interest in, and love of, music, or whether they will do their utmost to stifle any musical tendencies.

I have now 'flagged up' this matter with the Music Service, and await a response!

Reading what kerioboe wrote about her experiences at secondary school reminded me of the hurdles put in my way (many, many years ago!)

I wanted to play the oboe or clarinet (wasn't sure of the difference as I had missed the lesson on 'Peter & the Wolf' due to being at a recorder lesson!) but there were no instruments available. However, I was offered a French Horn, which, wonderful instrument though I now know it to be, just didn't appeal to me at that time. Still, being too timid to say outright that I didn't want to play it, I went along for a lesson, couldn't get a sound out of it, went dizzy, and didn't like the smell of the mouldy old instrument I was given to try. The brass teacher quickly sussed out that my musical aspirations lay elsewhere & suggested that I went back to the head of music to say I really wanted to play the oboe or clarinet, NOT the horn. So, I did this, and was told by the head of music that I was 'obviously the sort of person who would never stick at anything'! But, I persisted and pestered, and eventually an oboe was found (well, half an oboe, really, as I had to share with another beginner for the first year).

I could so easily have slipped through the net, though. The only reason that particular oboe became available was because two girls in the year above me had been missing windband practice to go to gym club, so one of their instruments was reclaimed and they were made to share. If the head of music hadn't been so spiteful to the two older girls I would never have been able to start playing!

Some teachers have a lot to answer for! As I said, luck of the draw. Nothing changes!

Allegra

I went to a fantastic concert last night to celebrate 10 years of our local Schools Music Service. This was the culmination of a 6 day course for members of the County orchestras, windbands, jazzbands and choir. We even had a choir of 10 harps!

In the program it stated that 99% of primary schools in Gwynedd and 96% of those in Anglesey and 100% of senior schools in both are provided with music lessons from the service - I think this is a remarkable takeup, but we are so lucky to have the option.

Of course, here in Wales our primary school children don't take SATS any more, but we do still have that external influence of local, regional and national Eisteddfodau which also helps enormously.

We do have to contribute to lessons - my primary school daughter has 30 x 15 minute lessons for £75, daughter in secondary school has 30 x 20 min lessons for £90, which I consider to be a very good deal. And loan instruments are provided (if available) free for the first two years.

Yet again provision of service is down to where you live, or the likes/dislikes of a headteacher. It really shouldn't be like this.......