neither of us is at at musical but our child (12) enjoys playing keyboard. She isn't especially good at music but as she enjoys it we want to encourage her to continue. Her school teacher only shows any interest in those intending to have a musical career so she has private piano lessons. As far as we can tell she seems to make reasonable progress with this teacher.

One of us sits with her while she practises for 20 minutes a day (to ensure it happens) but unless she's playing music we recognise we find it hard to tell whether she's even playing the right notes. How do other non musical parents support their children?

I have a musical dad and a non-musical mum and am also a bit older so maybe this won't help but from my point of view:

If you want her to progress and do well she needs to enjoy playing. You aren't musical but it is you're job to encourage her to practice, perform, work hard. Listen to a variety of styles play a variety of styles etc and generally just support her.

With regards to not knowing if it is right or wrong that is the teacher's job not yours you should help her to give a good over-all performance (even if it is not quite right) if she puts emotion and feeling into her playing it will sound better and that is something you can judge.

If you want you, and she is this way inclined, could try and let her show you some simple stuff. The notes, chords etc as this could be benefical to her as well as you .

I hope this of some help, sorry if its not. Smileygirl

My wife and I are not musical but our son (15) is.

All parents can do is give their children opportunities and let the children make the most of them as they will.

You said two things which seem, to me, to be a bit contradictory. She enjoys keyboard, and you sit with her for 20 minutes practice to ensure it happens.

Hmmm.

I'd have thought that was one way of spoiling the enjoyment. At 12, and especially for a beginner, I think the emphasis might better be on playing than practising. Let her play when she wants to and let her practice when she wants to and let her ignore her instrument when she wants to. If she doesn't touch her instrument for a week maybe she doesn't enjoy it as much as you thought.

I think you got it right in the subject title. At 12, especially for a beginner, 'support' is a much better concept than 'encourage'. Be the taxi service to her piano lessons, buy her music, turn the TV off when she wants to play (even if it's your favourite programme) and if you like what you hear, tell her.

(About the teacher ... does he really expect 12 year olds to have decided their career paths? If so, he's gone soft in his head.)

Best wishes

barry

Talk to them, listen to their playing sometimes and compliment it when it sounds good (this is different from knowing if it's being played right). Ferry them about, go to their concerts and generally take as much interest as possible. I also provided moral support for my son when he battled through the theory books. He did ask me things I didn't know when stuck & then we would look at the book together & try to puzzle it out. Oh and I did talk his school teacher into marking all the theory eventually.

My first reaction was 'lucky girl'. I teach music and my husband is musical too, so every note our children do in practice is subject to our scrutiny - even though we try hard not to interfere all the time.

I do, however, have a sheet I hand out to non-musical parents of my pupils who ask how they can offer support. The main ways are always to encourage practice, without forcing it, and to be an appreciative audience. See how many opportunities to 'perform' you can organise - to friends, to neighbours, down the phone to Grandma.
Ask your daughter to explain it all to you, as this will reinforce her learning.

Above all, be proud of her achievements, whatever they are. She's obviously found an interest in music without pressure from her family, and this is something to cherish.

I disagree with Barry. My parents sat with me to practise for both cello and piano up till the age of about 10. I loved playing but didn't like practising - subtle difference. I'm very glad they did so, because without it I might have given up, and certainly wouldn't be as good today. Part of the enjoyment I get from playing is certainly partially down to my parents sitting in on me (much as it annoyed me from time to time)

Try asking the teacher what they suggest - try also to sit in on some of your daughter's lessons. That way you'll know what the teacher wants her to practise and you'll hopefully also be able to hear more what the teacher commends and critisizes. It also gets rid of most "but X TOLD me to play it that way..." complaints! Any teacher worth their salt should not mind this. Good luck, and I don't think I'm alone in saying I think it's highly commendable that you're doing this for your daughter - she'll thank you for it!

Barry, you are fortunate enough to have a particularly musical, well motivated son. Most parents don't! Practice must come before playing. The child and the parents need to be quite clear about the difference between practice and playing - practice is about taking the piece apart in manageable chunks and doing work on those parts that are difficult and then putting them back into context and playing is enjoying the fruits of that practice - you can't have one without the other. Also, you can't get anywhere in life without self discipline and one of the benefits of playing a musical instrument is that it encourages self discipline. I always recommend that children should have a regular daily practice session, preferably at a time of day when they are not tired or have other distractions going on - early morning is ideal, although not always practicable. Content should be structured so that best use is made of the available time, and it should finish with the student playing something they like and can do well. Everyone enjoys doing what they are good at and the way to become good is to practice at it, just as you would if you were training for a sport. Success breeds success and with any luck working like this will encourage the student to extend their playing time. I've had one student who has made really good progress after I persuaded his parents of the need for daily supervised practice in this way. Many children like the idea of playing an instrument but don't appreciate that you have to put in a lot of hard work to make progress, and this may also mean sacrificing time spent watching television or playing computer games.



Buzzard1994, look at your daughter's tutor book and try and pick up the basics of music - get her to teach you if possible. There's nothing like teaching someone else for making sure your own knowledge is sound! If you can grasp the basics of note names and duration, time signatures and rhythms, you will be in more of a position to know whether what she is playing is correct.

i've got a musical dad and a totally unmusical mum (london's burning on the recorder is mum's best), and i rely on my dad for someone-musicial-who-knows-when-it's-all-going-pear-shaped support and mum for does-it-sound-nice-to-someone-completely-clueless support.

so basically, if i'm practicing i'd rather have my dad there to help if things are going wrong (mum'd just say "oh it's fine"), and mum if i'm performing, because she won't go into how it wasn't musically perfect, just if it does/doesn't sound nice.

so yeah, if you're not a musical parent, it's of little use trying to help in any major way with practicing (ie "it's flat"/"use more pedal"/"that 's a rubbish cadenza" etc.), but, if it sounds good, say so, and you'll find your child busily practicing for a while!

Very well put! Ditto here.

We are not musical. My daughter 10 is. I always sit with her. She loves to play in her Orchestra and receice trophies etc but hates the work to get there. If left by herself she would just rush it. I find I can follow her music and I can tell when note are out of tune, I too have learn't an awful lot over the last 3 years, you will too I am sure.
I remember when she was first learming her Grade 1 Piano scales and I couldn't follow her fingers, my husband stood one side and me the other to check the her fingering. She will go and play for fun when she wants, but when she has to do homework she now asks me to sit beside her.

There is one important thing I would like to suggest.

Although you may be feeling unmusical yourself, it is important that you as parents show by example the joy of listening to music. [If you did not believe in this, why the lessons for the child?]

Have the radio on the classical station quite a bit. Acquire recordings of great music, including the ABRSM CD of the exam your child is sitting - play them in the car! Take the child to orchestra, opera, musical theatre (a certain hit). Invite friends to your home who can play an instrument, play songs at the piano. Stop to listen to the skilled busker. Get the child to do duets with children of music friends. Quite important too - is encourage child to sing by enrolling them in a choir.

The really keen parent will take some lessons in an instrument as well. I have a friend who did that and kept up with his son for a quite a while!

In short - demonstrate YOUR commitment to music - lead by example. Musical enthusiasm is contagious. While noone here would do this - it used to be the way that some quite wealthy people would buy a beat up old piano, book the lessons, force the practice, and wait for something to happen! This is the 21 century.

George

The mother of one of my pupils was so keen to help her child that she started learning before he was old enough, and then continued up to about Grade 4 (no exams). He's overtaken her now, but she was a great help to him because she would sit in on lessons and understand what I was teaching and was able to reinforce the lesson during the week at home. I do think parents should be careful though when helping their offspring, not to be too 'pushy'. A little help and plenty of encouragement is a wonderful thing.

Neither of us had an opportunity to learn as a child so we wanted to give our daughter that chance. Also she used to attend a school enthusiastic about music where every child had the opportunity to play recorder. So - she enjoys playing, is not keen on practising but at the suggestion that we may not pay for lessons if she doesn't practise she heads for the keyboard. She isn't being pushed into this - but she does have to be reminded there is more progress with more commitment.

As she doesn't have music lessons at school and hasn't yet taken an exam it doesn't seem to occur to her school music teacher to include her in anything. She is encouraged to play for family but doesn't show any interest in joining any local orchestra/ other group at school. We managed to arrange for her to play at one school social event and are getting her to do an exam (grade 2, private teacher says that's the appropriate level) in the hope that perhaps he will then be more amenable. (I find it hard to be polite about this man).

Although she's too young for career choices it is possible to say she doesn't have the commitment or character ever to be a concert pianist. Still she enjoys music and we think she'll enjoy it more when she can play better.

Yup, same here

My parents are in no way musical...They sometimes forget what instrument i play.. ..But they support me by not exactly getting me everything i want , but if there is something i could do with i.e. new music book they will check what it is for and make sure it is useful they will get it me.

I get on fine with my parents just listening to me and allowing me to do my thing

Ben

To give a totally different viewpoint, and not meaning to be contraversial :- as a child, our (crappy) piano was in the same room as the TV - there was no other option - and I was more often told to shut up than encouraged. I was resentful of this, and kept going regardless. But all I hear now is about pupils whose parents push, push, push, and whose children are unable to think for themselves. They may have the ability, but they don't have any self-discipline. As a teacher now, I am extremely grateful for parents who encourage, but does anyone else feel that sometimes over-enthusiam from the parent can lead to under-enthusiasm from the child - as in, child thinks, "not my call...?"

P. S. I don't mean, in any way, to discourage anyone from helping and encouraging, because that's great; my comment is more of a cynical statement on our modern attitude to our children, which is not neccessarilly relevent to the topic-starter. My opinion is - if you want to encourage - give them space, show respect, be willing to listen, do taxi-service, know as much as you can possibly find out about the teacher and about whatever exam/performance is forthcoming, and, above all, show that you enjoy listening and would love to be able to do what he/she can do. But don't push too hard, and remember that it's meant to be a pleasure.

Neither of my parents are musical, but they do support me in a lot of different ways. Financially, they'll pay for my exams, competitions, books, tours, trips etc. They also tell me when they think I sound nice, try and make me not be nervous, put things into perspective. They have never supervised my practice as they just don't know that much about music. I don't think I have been at a disadvantage from havinf non musical parents

I have no support from my parents where music is concerned. I have to buy all my own instruments, pay for my exams, books etc. My parents never encourage me to play. My father refuses to let me practice at his, and my mother often asks me to 'turn it down' (since when has a flute or violin had a volume switch?). My mum refused to let me take music A level so i had to change the form after she'd signed it, she went mad when she found out but it was too late. I did get a muttered 'well done' when i got a merit in my grade 3 flute (having only been playing 6 months). The best part was when i started my flute lessons though. I had shoved some money into mums hand (about £150), borrowed her credit card, brought a flute, had the flute delievered, found a flute teacher, booked lessons, worked out train times to get to lessons etc. The day of the first lesson i said to mum 'so you're picking me up from town at 6pm?' she asked what i was doing in town. I told her i had a flute leson. The reply was 'Since when have you played the flute?'

Well done - all credit to you! This type of story really puts some of my pampered, "too tired to practise" pupils into perspective!

As a non musical parents we try and support our girls by finding information to help them make choices. They do have it easy when it comes to books, exams instruments and lesson fees. Our youngest particularly loves music but she works hard without being pushed. They both get the things needed to help them progress and our support during practise sessions. All you can do is listen to your child play find out their musical aspirations and support them in whatever way you feel able.

Hmmm....tis just a shame i'm not actually very good at music after all that determination.

This is an interesting question. I think that many parents who do not know anything about music are at a real disadvantage when it comes to finding good quality music eduction for their children. Perhaps even those that do know about music don't really know about music education.

Most parents do not know about many of the options available to them, also they can't truly tell if a teacher is good or not. For example my parents & I thought I had a wonderful piano teacher who got me to grade 8 by the time I was 16, but as a music teacher myself now and having studied music education I realise that actually I did not get a very good music education.

So perhaps one way you can provide support for your child is to subscribe to a music education magazine, for example the EPTA magazine (European Piano Teachers Association) http://www.epta-uk.org/webdb/application/Application.php? and / or NAME (National Association of Music Educators) http://www.name2.org.uk/home/P1.php. This will allow you to learn about what constitutes good music education and you will then be better placed to ensure your child receives a sound music education.

Other areas you may wish to investigate are the Kodaly and Dalcroze schools of music education. These are extremely valuable ways to learn about music and I cannot recommend strongly enough that you investigate them.

Good luck and please get in touch if you have any questions.

That is a fantastic achievement, and you have the added satisfaction that you did it all by yourself! I'm sure you're being modest about not being good

I always had great support from my parents, although my piano is in the only living room we have, and I still find myself competing for space with Eastenders sometimes... It's almost an insult to ask someone to go upstairs to watch telly! I'd wheel the piano upstairs if I could - but it's not quite practical

xx

My parents are not in the least bit musical either But they are still very helpful. They know its important to me and try to understand. They helped me find the best music teachers and get the best equipment, so no complaining there for once!

My piano's in the living room too! My dad never tells me to stop playing unless he's watching EPL haha! My mum just encourages me to play. I've been lucky I guess. When I wanted to take up violin at 13, my parents allowed me though I did get abit of scolding after I dropped it after 1.5years. I've since taken it up again but because I'm overseas now, I don't have the privilege of lessons. =P I've been playing the piano since I was 5 and I stopped when I was 11 at Grade 3 because I hated practising. I suddenly found a love for it last year whilst revising for my A levels. It was a good way to relax. =D I guess for parents, just support your kid. Children love it when they're being complimented. It pushes them to try harder to achieve new heights. I don't know how musical my parents are. Dad used to be in his university choir. I have no idea how he sang since he couldn't read notes. He told me, "Well, we just see the lines. If they go up, we sing higher!" So so so cute. Mum sings karaoke and she's quite alright but both my parents don't play any instruments.

This is such excellent advice. Exactly what my lovely not-particularly-musically-gifted father did. We heard some truly great pianists and orchestras in concerts from a very young age, and I still remember him listening to Beethoven's Pastoral symphony with me when I was about 9 - really helping me to hear it and understand what I was hearing. He also started learning the piano with all 4 of us - a ready supply of new beginners in the house meant he always had an excuse to go back to the beginning when things got tough! He was never a performer but a very musical listener....

Plus, one of the things I'm sure you could help with is listening for how rhythmically your child plays. Can you tap your foot along with them? If not, don't criticise (I'm a parent and a teacher so I know mum is always in the wrong!) but just help them to hear and feel the pulse of the music you listen to at home, to develop their sense of rhythm - which helps with all music learning.

Good luck - enjoy the journey!

three months on and daughter is no more willing to practise - but just as reluctant to give up lessons. While I'll find it interesting to look at the musical education sites we can hear the difference in her playing and in particular that she plays at a more appropriate pace. She's had several teachers because we moved house (and school) and after one with whom she made no progress we're glad to see her progressing again. So we're happy that the teacher suits our child.

Classical music doesn't greatly interest me but I don't force what I like and dislike on my child - so she gets the opportunity to try things out and choose for herself. Found it a bit odd to suggest I shouldn't be encouraging my child to try something unless I liked it myself. However I don't think I'm keen enough to learn music myself.

Now we have the problem that she will soon need something better to practise on.

Thanks from a parent in the “clueless” category. Phew! Good to hear that.
I guess there are pros and cons in both situations. Being a non-musical parent, I initially felt this must surely be a disadvantage. However, I recently spoke to a parent who is a professional musician, and who admitted that she sometimes found it difficult not to be over-critical of her child – a thought that hadn’t occurred to me before – whereas for me every single note my daughter played right from the start was always a source of wonder and delight! I personally wouldn’t necessarily consider learning the instrument myself in order to help her (even if I had the time), as some here have suggested. As it is, my daughter loves having a skill of her very own. Being really good at something her mum is clueless about is quite a confidence-booster for her – she sometimes even tries to teach me little things like a scale or an arpeggio (but I’m afraid I’m not a very talented pupil)!

Buzzard

You're not the only parent who has no interest in Classical Music that supports their children's musical activities. I'm another, I've never had any time for people who force their children into something for the sake of it whether it's the parents actual interest or one they feel they missed out on as a child.

We cannot expect our children to be mini me's. Some children will share their parent's interests others will not, but the child needs to be themselves. As a child I swam but neither of my girls have ever had the desire to develop their water skills (they can both swim). But I don't feel I could have supported tham anymore if they had been swimmers, than I have with their dance when they were younger, and I currently do with their Music.

Sometimes I do feel frustrated expecailly when I need to make choices for them, although I do as much as possible allow them to make decisions for themselves , sometimes I have to take responsibility. No I don't always know the right path to take but I've learnt a lot over the last year and I'm not ashamed to ask for advice.