Hello all
Was thinking of having a try at Joplins music, particularly Maple Leaf Rag. Would it be best to go straight in and learn the real macoy, or start off with a simpler version? Tips and advice much appreciated

Thank you

Ooooh, sorry, i can't really give any advice as i don't play piano (well i occasionally attempt to). Scott Joplin pieces are fantastic though - Go you for wanting to play them. We played maple leaf rag in woodwind group a while back and it was great fun. (Our music teacher has an obsession with Scott Joplin music!!) All i will say is that although it's not written like it, try to make it quite swung and laid back (although that goes without saying).

I don't like simplified versions - go for the real McCoy! Don't take it too fast - slow march time is fine, but be precise, and aim for that "tick-tock" two-in-a-bar feel, going easy on the third and fourth semiquavers. And don't forget a bit of rubato - just a bit - in all the appropriate places!

Ah get stuck in there! It's not that hard once you've gone through it hands separately, I found anyway.

When you have mastered a simplified version, you'll be thinking, "Oh, what about doing the real thing now." Sooner or later you'll want to do it as is written. For people who aren't so good at an instrument, simplified versions can be useful. Competent musicians (your signature suggests you are), should work on the real piece. Slow practise, with appropriate daily targets, will get new pieces sorted out in often just a few weeks. Go for it!

Hi everyone.
Thanks for the tips. I've had the piece, as written, for ages but everytime I lookat it I think "oooh dear! " I'll give it a go now though!

Scott Joplin's rags are a lot of fun, and once you master one rag, you can pick up other others relatively quickly as they're all quite similar to each other. The chief difficulty, I think, is the constant left hand jumps of the accompaniment. These need to be completely solid. When I learned the Entertainer, my teacher made me practise the left hand on its own first, playing up to speed, but only playing the first and third quaver beats of each bar (just the bass notes). Having got used to that, I added in the second quaver beat, and once that was under control, the fourth. Hope this makes sense - it worked for me, and may be worth a try.

Mmm - the LH is what puts me off too. I have tried the Maple Leaf and the Entertainer. I can do them slowly but haven't put the practice in to get them up to speed.

You know - they should put them in the AB syllabus one year. Grade 8?

I found the Maple Leaf Rag easier than the Entertainer to make a good job of. Maple Leaf Rag was on the Trinity syllabus until recently at Grade 8.

I think they both look difficult

i think most of his pieces look quite difficult... especially the big leaps and chords tat require streching in the hands are making me faint... LOL

ShArOn

There is a lot of repetition and therefore the piece is not as daunting or long to learn!

True, simplified versions havn't got all those octave playings....
And yes, they shouldn't be played fast, actually Joplin himself declared that he wants them to be played non-fast. Just because people in the old days have really un-advanced recording methods,i.e. a disk can only record one hr. and so pianists have to play faster to fit all his works in discs.....according to my piano teacher.

Hmmm....well somehow my music teacher can play the full version of the entertainer fine, and she apparently can't play piano, so i would say give it a go. It might take a little while, but i'm sure you are perfectly capable of doing the full version.

I agree with what's been said - get the LH leaps very secure before going together! I wouldn't bother with a simpler version. I leart a simplified Entertainer, and when I came to learn the full version, it confused the life out of me, my hands had to forget, then re-learn patterns that seemed to be ingrained!

My personal favourite is the Pine-Apple Rag

Is this piece about a Grade 8 standard?
I was trying to find out and I stumbled onto a site selling it that put it at Grade 4, but thats impossible! It must have been a simplified version...
http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/pages.html?c...amp;r=wwws-err5

I've been learning it recently, I should think the first page perhaps lower at grade 6/7 but it gets pretty hellish towards the end, thats for sure! Other people on here are no doubt more knowledgeable on these matters than I.... is Grade 8 an accurate placing?

Yes, grade 8 is correct. It is still in the LCM oiano grade syllabus and my pupils love it!

Ok now I can feel all good and smug about myself didn't know I could manage grade 8

What tempo is recommended to take this piece?

The recordings are rather fast for Rag Time?

Ragtime is supposed to be played with a relaxed tempo, about the speed of a march. Alot of the performence directions in the Joplin book that i have at home say things such as "Not Fast" specifically. The Maple Leaf Rag is meant to be played "tempo di marcia" or "the speed of a march" but i personally think that ragtime is more exciting when played a little faster than directed also with a little pedal. Then again, it wouldn't sound very rhythmic if it was just played top speed. It would also sound rather mushy if too much pedal was used. My advice would be to play the Maple Leaf Rag slightly faster than what it says, using the pedal where you think suits but being careful not to over use the pedal and being careful not to over speed the song and lose the rhythm of the rag. Oh and bare in mind that the second section says "Forte Staccato". It would be good to make this section staccato to make good contrast in the song and give the song more 'texture' if that makes sense. Also this would make up for the fact that the song doesn't really have many dynamic contrasts. I tend to repeat this section an octave higher in the right hand too. Anyway i hope this advice helps. I'm thinking of doing this rag at a talent show at school.
(Sorry about the long post, i always go on and on when writing posts, i can't help it. I start writing and then somehow it turns into a big essay)

This section sounds good if you "bring out" the rising LH octaves - you can do this by making them louder, and/or less staccato than the rest of this section. It gives a feeling of urgency and forward movement - especially if you play the preceding few bars softer. If you get a feel for movement between tonic and domimant chords generally, you can add more dynamic contrast than the score suggests. Once you know the notes well, it starts doing this by itself, somehow!

Well, I do actually do a lot of "bringing out" the left hand for dynamics and also do repeat some sections an octive higher in the right for fun as well... isn't that funny

There is NO indication of tempo on the arrangment I have :S

So how many bpm is a march? :S

There is no Metronome marking on the book that i have got it only says "Tempo di Marcia" - (a march sort of speed). I would say that this rag should maybe be played at around 90 bpm. But don't swear by that. Try it at that speed and see how it goes. If you feel it's too fast or slow then maybe you could adjust it a little. Thats just a guide. Hope this helps

Similar with me and the Maple Leaf Rag, especially as it had been transposed from Ab to D. The LH jumps are the pains, leaping nearly two octaves in the space of a milisecond is something I still need to work on.

i sucessfully mastered the entertainer over the summer and i was so happy!
as i've got small hands it took me AGES to do the octave jumps in the left hand, but after persevearing I got there!

trying maple leaf now.......

No point in starting a new thread for this one.

I've been asked to canvas opinion on whether ragtime should be played swung or straight?

My answer was straight.

(Yes, I know I'm replying to something two months old!)
sheetmusicplus is an American web site. ABRSM grades are almost completely unknown over here.
That "grade 4" appears to refer to a grading system used by the editor (and family) for their own series of books.
http://www.opus-two.com/Piano.Bastien.html

*pops into thread*



I've been learning to Entertainer for the past few weeks...this time last year I didn't dare touch it, but now I can play it okay. I had a bit of trouble with the right hand chords at first because I have small hands, but it's getting better as I practise. My problem now is the left hand, which sounds really broken and nasty. I'm going to try some of the tips here though...great job guys!

Whenever I start the Maple Leaf Rag , I do the same very first bars , then leave for some undefined reason...
I should really do it this year.

Straight, definitely. The whole point about ragtime is that there has to be an absolutely consistent pulse from which the melody deviates by a very precise amount, usually a semiquaver. If the deviation becomes a triplet semiquaver (as it does if you swing it) you get a completely different effect.

Joplin himself wrote several times that ragtime should not be played quickly. Straight rhythms and a minimum of tempo change are equally important. If you play ragtime quickly, or swing it, or use too much rubato, you may end up with a valid interpretation, but it will no longer be ragtime.

I've said to students that ragtime should be played in the same way that the music of JS Bach should be played. Both require a high level of precision, partly so that the inherent swing (oh yes, Bach swings alright) can come out without being swamped by inappropriate extra swing in the performance.

IMHO and all that.

I totally agree. I've never used the sustaining pedal in a Joplin piece either - it doesn't fit the style.

What makes the piece tricky (for me, at least) is getting the left hand jumps accurate.

When you learn "Maple Leaf", try "Elite Syncopations" - it's great fun!

I haven't played "The Entertainer" myself since I started teaching. Everyone wants to learn it (an easy version) and now it's started to grate on me like "chopsticks" does

xxx

Agree that Elite Syncopations is great to play!
I think the main stumbling block in a good performance of Scott Joplin is getting the touch right - i.e. no pedal, and not staccato or legato, fairly firm, and with a good strong downbeat. It's easy to snatch at the lower LH notes in eagerness to ensure getting to the next LH chords with precision.

No pedal, at all, ever? I use quite a lot of pedal, but not usually for more than a quaver at a time.

No, I don't use any at all. Just personal preference I suppose!

Oh! Actually, I do use it once in a Joplin piece. Just at the start of Maple Leaf Rag, I use a little on the arpeggiated bit

xxx

I can see how this word work, but I don't even use it there! I would just use my fingers to sustain the main beat a bit. Good pedalling would do the same job, but over-use would make it sound clustered, and make this bit sound like it didn't belong.

Exactly

I've just been trying it both ways

Now I can't make up my mind! I see your point though....

xxxx