Hi

I was just wondering if any of you insist on longer lessons by Grade 5/6 standard and if so, how long? Up until now, parents and students have been very sensible in realising that as they progress longer lessons are needed. However, a relatively new student who is working towards Grade 6, is still expecting 30min lessons. With increasing detail, scales etc etc, this seems crazy to me.

Would just appreciate your input before I put my foot down!!!

Thanks
x

well i always do 1hour lessons, whatever standard they are, whether it be grades or not, but for younsters i do 30mins.

I start most pupils with half an hour, but to be honest, it gets a bit tight preparing for exams in a 30 min lesson by about grade 4. Sometimes a few extra lessons (if I can fit them in) in the run up to the exam will help out enough, but I much prefer 45 mins by this level.

It depends to some extent on how well the student works independently between lessons too, but I would not in general be happy preparing grade 5 or over on just half an hour a week.

I'm around grade 7 and i'm still having 30 minute lessons, but my teacher tends to make the next person a bit later and, if anyone misses their lesson, i can take that slot if i want (all lessons at school so it's easy to get a note to me).

but i'd certainly rather have an hour lesson, i'd be much more focused and... well... useful! the way i get round it at the moment is my teacher gives me loads to do in between lessons, and i just have to work extra hard

By Grade 5, 30 minutes is not enough, but I find an hour too long. (Once in a while, when the pressure is on, an hour is great, but if it was every week, I think I'd just move more slowly!) So what I end up doing is putting the higher grades at the end of the evening and allowing them to over-run for about 15 minutes. I have two Grade 6's, however, still coming in the early evening because they refuse to budge - which means, as well, that I'm turning away new younger pupils as I have no early slots.

So, I, too, will be interested to hear what other people do about this type of situation! Can we just demand that they start paying for a longer lesson, and can we just demand that they come at a later time??!! I don't want to lose pupils - there are plenty of teachers who will stick to half an hour for higher grades that mine could move to if I insist too much on longer lessons. I would hope they would have more loyalty, but don't want to be complacent; even though I could replace them fairly quickly, I didn't bring them all this way for somebody else to take them over at this stage! And I prefer higher grades to an endless stream of beginners.

I went all the way to grade 8 clarinet (then a bit further, at university) on 30 minute lessons. BUT my teacher didn't have time to hear my scales often - she had to trust me to learn them, and I did the recommended 30 mins on them each day in the term before my exam, then an hour on my pieces after school each evening.

Up to Grade IV I teach for 30 mins weekly. After that I usually extend to 45 mins and, by Grade VII, we're up to an hour. Some pupils like an hour fortnightly (especially the ones under huge pressures at school as it gives thems longer to work on stuff between lessons) but most come weekly for 45 mins or an hour from about Grade VI in fact.

I agree, by Grade VI 30 mins is too short. That said, if a pupil, or more likely their parents feel that's too much on a regular basis (for whatever reason) then we stick at 30 minutes but I tuck some extra sessions in before an exam.

You can't really insist on people having longer lessons...they will have as long as they want or can afford, unless you are willing to give lessons free.

I start children and adults alike on half an hour, but if they are taking higher grade exams, or taking theory seriously, then I discuss the matter with student and/or parent, and suggest an hour, or sometimes meet them half way with a 45 minute lesson. It all depends really if they want the longer lesson and if they want to pay for it.

I agree that one cannot insist on longer lessons. I tend to run through any new scales or arpeggion, etc for the coming week, and leave the practice of them to the pupil. A lesson is for learning and for presenting the last week's work, not really for practice that can be done at home. It is often useful to spend an entire half hour lesson on one piece so that any technical difficulties may be covered, and to hear some of the pieces once a fortnight only. I agree that fitting in ear training and sight reading work can be a tight squeeze, but if a pupil is struggling an occasional longer lesson will sort this out, I find.

I usually give 45 mins to beginners right through to Grade 5, both practical & theory & 1 hour to Grade 6 - 8. For younger beginner, I will only give 30-min lessons.

Out of curiosity, do all of you include theory in your piano practical lessons to beginners - Grade 5?

I do a little, but only verbally; we don't really write things down, except for the occasional note-naming homework for abolute beginners. I encourage my pupils to go to a colleague for seperate theory classes.

I include theory in the lessons. When starting with beginners I just start with little things at a time, learning words, note names and values, time signatures etc. Then when they are ready for their theory exams, I spend lesson time on that, as well as practical. I think both theory and practical are important. It is useful when the child has a 45 minute slot, to fit this in, but I do really think it is important to do so. However, there are some who insist on not doing theory (although they don't realise that they are doing it really, whilst learning to read music) - but not many thankfully.

Patricia & Joyjoy

Thanks for your replies! In Singapore, we, piano teachers used to include both practical and theory in our lessons for all grades. After the ABRSM has changed its theory syllabus in the 90s, many piano teachers teach G6 - 8 practical and theory separately. But I recently saw a trend of G5 lessons not excluding theory too. At times, I find it a little unfair as violin & cello teachers (all other instruements) do not include theory and yet they get the same fees or even more, at times.

So far, I only know of another HK piano teacher who teaches practical without 'actively' doing theory. that is, theory is incorporated in the lesson but the teacher does not prepare students for any theory exams. Then, at Grade4 - 5 Practical level, she will give a year's extra theory lessons for the students to sit for Grade 5 theory exam.

Oops! I wrote wrongly.... I meant I saw a trend of Grade 5 Piano practical lessons excluding theory too.

Of course teaching how to practise is important, and it should be done right from the start. If this means practising in lesson time, so be it. I also start theory from the beginning, and I find that even the smallest pupil quite likes 'homework' to hand in next week. So lessons are really full, with a little sightreading and aural practice included. It can be fitted into a half-hour slot in the early stages, but I do encourage pupils to have longer lessons as they go through the grades...but I still stay you can't insist on it.

Some (most?) teachers can't afford to give their time for free, and some students can't afford to pay for more, in which situation longer lessons are a luxury no matter how insistent someone can be!

Nearly all my lessons are 45 minutes unless the child is under 10, or there is a budget issue. All do theory and I put people in for theory exams too. If they don't want to do theory as well, they don't have lessons. It's too easy to learn songs by ear. Some adults have an hour, but it depends if they can afford it.
I once had someone do grade 7 on half an hour per fortnight! They got a merit. I just had someone get a distinction at grade 2 on 45 minutes per month. Again a budget issue.

The teacher in question was asking about a pupil working towards grade six. By this time the pupil will be familiar with the theory behind the scales needed and will, or should be well able to run through the donkey work if learning new ones. What I wrote was "practice THAT CAN BE DONE AT HOME" Obviously some new techniques will have to be learnt in lessons, but run of the mill scales and arpeggios should be practised at home. Also a pupil who is working towards grade six will have learnt how to practice! I certainly cannot afford to give free lessons and do not know of any other musicians who can and do. Sight reading can be done at home too, and this will save on lesson time. It might take a little longer to cover the syllabus with shorter lessons but it is perfectly possible.

Obviously they do not know everything! But they do know how to prepare work on thier own at home by then, of course. I take it that the bit about teaching over the net was a joke? I prepare my pupils to a high standard as their exam results show, most gaining distinctions, some merits and a few passes. My failure rate is four in thirty-five years. What I am trying to explain is that it is possible to teach pupils in half hour lessons when longer lessons are not an option, but that it may take longer to cover exam work. Obviously one does much more than just the work for the next grade exam but when preparing for an exam one tends to concentrate on the set pieces for the last two months at least, as well as the technical work. There IS much that a pupil will be able to do on his or her own but it is MY job to guide and to help them in their preparation and practice.

I have a girl who has an hour a week, but that's for two instruments. She is preparing for grade 6 clarinet and grade 4 saxophone. I do not need to hear her scales every week because she knows them. I get her to sight read some of her new pieces, and she also plays in bands most days at school.

When I was doing my grade 8 on half hour weekly lessons, my teacher was so jam-packed that she couldn't give any of us longer. And it worked out fine! One boy in my year did his diploma on the same amount of lesson time, with a few extra lessons squeezed in nearer the time. It is possible, but we were expected to practise. A lot.

I have one 11 year old who has an hour: she came to me at age 9 (not a beginner) and has always had a longer lessons at her own request. I think it works out quite well for her although I was unsure in the beginning - the only other students who have an hour are adults.

It does enable us to cover theory as well as practical with no problem - although I don't always divide up the hour into two separate halves. This particular pupil has needed a lot of revision and consolidation, so it's useful for her - we have time to do things that I'd have to skimp in a half-hour session.

This is deviating from the subject a little - I hope that's okay - and moving on to what we actually spend time on in lessons. I do agree with Petrat that once a pupil reaches Grade 6 the teacher's role should become largely consultative, and a lesson should involve presenting new material and preparing the pupil for the week's practice. HOWEVER, I do find it is still benficial, at this stage, to go through sight-reading with pupils, which can be quite time-consuming. Playing well at sight in compound time, for instance, needs a lot of guidance, and spotting melodic interest in the LH (at sight) is generally not something that will flourish if they're left too much to their own devices. Where scales are concerned, I find - strangely - that they are evidently happier to face an examiner without them properly learnt than they are to face ME! (I'm not sure what that says about me... ) On the occasions when I haven't heard them all, the mark tends to drop in that section, which is a shame, as the overall mark does not then reflect the effort put into the pieces. So, as such, I like there to be time available to hear ALL scales played to a reasonable standard in lessons before the exam.

Part of the problem is something that has been discussed at length before - do our children have the self-discipline that they should, or are they too much spoon-fed? Another matter again...!

But, yes, I, too, inevitably end up giving extra lessons free of charge (though I usually get a few bottles of wine somewhere along the line), but would dearly love to just persuade all my more advanced students to come for longer lessons!