I don't know if it is just me... but I always seem to have a thick gunky substance in the back of my throat and I always have to clear it when singing otherwise it completely runis my tone and I don't know if any one else gets it or if any one knows any way of getting rid of it?

I would love to just have a nice clear open throat when singing and not worrying about trying to hold bacthe substance in my throat in the middle of a live performance to 150+ people.

Thanks

Annetta xx

Everyone has occasional days like that. Grot in your throat could be the beginning or end of a cold, hayfever-type symptoms, the usual thickening of the mucus in your throat at your time of month, or something you ate or any number of different causes.

Make sure you're drinking plenty of water through the day whether you're singing or not, and I tend to have a very small swig of water just before I go on to sing, although some others don't do this.

If I'm having a persistent grotty tickly throat, I suck a lemon Lockets cough sweet before I go on.

Thanks katjay,

I have tried similar things to this during the day but it doesn't seem to make a great deal of difference!

I have had this in my throat for a couple of years and is eally annoying and I remember it being after a cold but I never got rid of it and then I got more colds and it just built up and i have never been able to get rid of it.

Thanks

Annetta xx

Have you tried cutting back on dairy products? Cow's milk and cheese can be very glooping for your throat. Worth thinking about.

If all else fails, then see your GP who may refer you to an ENT specialist.

Cutting back on dairy products...never heard of that...but i dnt eat dairy products any way and i despise cheese and especailly milk...thanks for the advice though!



What is an ENT specialist...It may be a stupid question but I really have no idea... he will usually give me tablets but they never work because it's not that strong because I am allergic to penicillin lol

ENT = Ear, Nose and Throat specialist.

Oh right, saw one of them when I was like 5, I had my tonsils out, gromits in and adnoids in lol...if that is what you mean?

Yes, exactly.

If I have already had that done...then what more can they do?

Oh well, I'll see what happens

Annetta xx

There are various thing you can try. Dairy products can be to blame. I know you don't like cheese and milk, but what about chocolate, yoghurt and other things with milk etc. in? Red wine, beer and lager and spirits all contain histamine, so if you have a problem with it, your sinuses can fill up.
If the catarrh is thick, have you tried inhaling steam? You don't have to put anything in it. It loosens up the thick phlegm. I start the day with a couple of teaspoons of lemon juice in hot water. That helps clear the gunk.
Be careful what throat sweets you use - the latest harley Street advice is use nothing with menthol in - it's considered too harsh for the vocal folds. And never anything with a local anaesthetic.

Well I don't really drink alcohol so thats not it...inhaling steam i havent done, il have to give that a shot and the lemon juice a shot as well, anything that is going to get rid of it!
Thanks Ann C.
When you say inhaling steam do u mean over a bowl of something hot? and then spitting out the mucus if u cough rather than swallowing it back?

Sorry

Thanks

Annetta xx

I've cut right back on dairy products - it really helped me.

I am not an ENT specialist but it is likely they would examine your throat/post-nasal space and vocal cords and also check if they are any signs of reflux causing irritation etc. Just because you have had your tonsils and adenoids done does not mean there isn't anything left in there!

But of course your GP will only consider a referral if he/she thinks it is indicated.

I had an oboe student (who was also a singer) with this problem once. She saw the ENT guy who found persistent problems with her sinuses - and the dreaded "nasal drip" that resulted (sorry to the squeamish). He was able to treat her and it all went away unless she had a cold.

Worth consulting your GP if it's gone on this long I'd have thought. There may be a simple solution just round the corner.

Quite right - it may be something easily treatable.

Yes - pour boiling water into a bowl, put a towel over your head and inhale. Be really careful you don't scald yourself. Beware the steam can be hot on your face until the water has cooled a little. But you need to start with the water boiling otherwise the steam dies away all too soon.
A doctor told me once that it didn't make any diference whether you swallowed it or spat it out.
If this is a long term problem, then the things I suggest are only going to be temporary relief. You might do best consulting your GP.

Ann

It sounds like you have allergic rhinitis (as do I) which is resulting in chronic infection and inflammation of the sinuses and of the back of the throat. You do need to see an ENT. They'll check the state of your sinuses with a little camera. They'll try in the first instance to sort you out with medicine. They'll also send you for allergy testing to determine what you're allergic to.

You do need to insist on an ENT referral (tell your doc this has been going on for a long time, that you can't manage with it anymore, etc etc), as doctors can be reluctant to refer. There'll be a bit of a wait (I had to wait for four months to see the ENT, and am still waiting for the allergy tests) so the sooner you get onto it the better. Mine has been rumbling on for years, getting a bit worse every year. The worst is in the winter, when overheated environments, dry air, closed spaces, and colds, combine to ensure that I basically have a chronic infection for about 90% of the time. Very unpleasant!

Yes, they may perform a flexible nasoendoscopy (telescope examination) to check the nasal cavity, throat etc. and may perform skin prick testing if there is any suspicion of allergic rhinitis. But do pop down to your GPs first before we get too carried away here!

I wasn't really aware of being 'carried away'. Maybe I'm having a bad day, but I've got to say, I find that comment a bit rude.

Thanks guys,

I will make an appointment with my GP asap, probs ring them tomorrow morning.

I do agree with your point meerkat...I don't see how you can get carried away...the more possibilities the better and wider range I have to consider

Thanks everyone for your comments

Annetta xx

By being 'carried away', I meant by offering a diagnosis and then going into the details relating to that particular diagnosis at this early stage - this diagnosis may well not apply to Annetta and can cause undue anxiety. My remark was not meant to offend.

I didn't find it rude, FC. I agree that only a GP or specialist can make a diagnosis. There are many differential diagnoses and the descriptions of the methods of investigation could put people off seeking advice. But people are only trying to be helpful. I'm sure nobody meant any harm.

I don't believe I did in fact 'offer a diagnosis'. Perhaps it's you that got 'carried away'?

Allergic rhinitis is a diagnosis. I am not sure why you are getting so upset about all this. Anyway, I shall stay away from this thread for now...

'It sounds like you have...' is a suggestion; not a diagnosis.

The phrase on its own implies a suggestion, but once you put a diagnostic term at the end of it - you are in fact offering a diagnosis. In daily practice, many doctors, consultants included, use this exact phrase. We don't usually say 'Your diagnosis is...' because it sounds too formal and impersonal and invites the use of jargon. As this is a public forum, describing procedures in detail may put other people off (not Annetta) consulting their doctor and it may not be suitable for younger members of the Forum to read. *disappears from thread*

Note to Annetta: if you do see your GP, emphasise that you are a singer to add more weight to the referral.

The phrase on its own implies a suggestion, but once you put a diagnostic term at the end of it - you are in fact offering a diagnosis. In daily practice, many doctors, consultants included, use this exact phrase. We don't usually say 'Your diagnosis is...' because it sounds too formal and impersonal and invites the use of jargon. As this is a public forum, describing procedures in detail may put other people off (not Annetta) consulting their doctor and it may not be suitable for younger members of the Forum to read. *disappears from thread*

Note to Annetta: if you do see your GP, emphasise that you are a singer to add more weight to the referral.

perhaps you missed the 'sounds like' part, FC? If you think 'that sounds like rhinitis' is a diagnosis, you may wish to brush up on your own understanding of medical processes a little.

I'm 'getting upset' because I found your post patronising, actually. And upset is probably the wrong word - irritated, annoyed might fit better. Perhaps you need to think before posting in such a condescending manner in future. Or perhaps not, since this is hardly the first time your posts have cause annoyance or offense. I'm not 12 years old, and I don't need my wrist slapping by you or anyone else.

I think you were patronising both me and Annetta. I trust that Annetta has sufficient common sense to recognise that I'm not a medical doctor, that I have not met her, and that I am simply offering something from my own experience. Perhaps you could credit the her with that level of common sense too. I hardly think she's going to immediately panic and get into a state (and geez, it's not like I suggested she had cancer of the nose or anything!). Personally, when I discovered the probablity that my ongoing misery was rhinitis, I was relieved, not upset. It also took a LOT for me to get a referral to an ENT, to confirm that diagnosis. If this poster wants to be seen by an ENT it is appropriate, not alarmist, to suggest she get her skates on, and that she be insistent because current accounting practices in the NHS makes it GP's increasingly reluctant to refer to specialists. It is also very unlikely that the GP will get a clear picture of the difficulties that she's encountering because they don't have either the specialist knowledge or equipment that an ENT has to work out the problem.

Anyway, I really am not interested in fighting with you FC. I don't care that much. I do find condescension needling. But I'm happy to overlook it.

sorry, that post finally posted after several attempts while I was having trouble connecting to the site - I wrote it before YAP posted essentially the same thing about the distinction between diagnosis and suggestion.

FC, I think your argument is just nonsense. We're not allowed to use medical terms without it being regarded as diagnostic? Would you have preferred that I said 'well, it sounds like the symptoms of the allergicky thing that my awfully clever doctor said I have, but I'm too featherbrained to remember the word, cause I'm not a big clever doctor person like him'? Would that have been sufficiently 'lay' for you?

I've moved from being mildly annoyed with you to finding you really quite insufferable now. That's quite an achievement in a few posts.

And with that, I'm moving on, and sticking you on ignore.

Meerkat, I don't think FC is trying to be patronising, although the two of us (FC and me that is) had a similar run in over a medical problem a few months back.

FC is a surgeon, and as such is tetchy about people using medical phrases or offering a diagnosis over the internet. I can see why, these things can be dangerous.

I'm sure he had Annetta's best interest at heart, as did everyone here.

The tenet of the advice is good, go to see your GP, get a referral to ENT, stress you are a singer.

Personally, I tend to wash down excess mucous by sipping water rather than coughing, but getting an expert diagnosis is important.

I do suffer from Allergenic Rhinitis (Seasonal) and have another allergy clinic referral as on Monday I had an anaphylactic episode. Without previous accurate diagnosis and the supply of an epipen, I wouldn't be in such good shape now. But it is vital I get retested for allergies at this point.

Annetta's throat problem may not be as life threatenening as anaphylaxis, but to her it is affecting the quality of her life, therefore sound medical advice is the only way forward.

All your advice has been really helpful and I have the common sense to realise that you aren't a doctor, just someone who has experienced the same difficulties as me and is giving advice to me on how to sort out the situation. I will contact my GP probably tomorrow now as I didn't wake up early enough to book one for today...so I shall be awake tomorrow
Thanks for everything though.
I shall mention that I am a singer and that it has been bugging for a couple of years and that I can't carry on singing like this (he has given me medicine for it before but it just does absolutely nothing)

Annetta xx

I think we're all aware that FC is a medic.

I do think he was being patronising (and from the number of pms I've received about this thread, it's quite clear I'm not the first person to form this opinion!). Medics are not the final arbiters of the use of medical terms. You won't see me getting all stressed if people start to use psychological jargon, for example, because I accept that this language has made it's way into popular usage and that my profession doesn't have exclusive control over its use. It would be silly to imagine that people with certain medical conditions might not refer to them in ordinary conversation. To jump from 'it sounds like allergic rhinitis' to 'don't get carried away with yourself thinking you're able to diagnose' is just ridiculous. Had I claimed medical expertise (in the way that FC does) and offered this suggestion, he might have had a point. But I didn't say that. In fact, the only person offering medical expert opinion on this thread is FC...

I totally agree with you jod, about the importance of getting this sorted through the route that you're suggesting. I don't have severe enough allergies to require an epipen, but this chronic condition does make my life pretty miserable in the winter. And it makes singing very hard.


Edited to add: Annetta, you posted while I was writing. I hope you get an appointment soon, and that you're able to sort this out. Does your problem seem to have a seasonal component (e.g. worse in winter / worse in summer)?

It just generally seems to be bad all the time I would say there are times when it is worse but no times when it gets better probably slightly oworse during summer and winter

Thing I find strange? The assumption that a medical diagnosis is given on the basis of the language used... on that basis, "I think you have a cold" would be a diagnosis... and that would be getting very silly indeed!

A diagnosis is surely only taken as such when it's coming from someone with the expertise and experience to give one. "You might have allergic rhinitus" is a diagnosis if it's coming from a qualified doctor who has examined you: it is hardly a diagnosis coming from someone who has and indeed claims no medical background. This isn't a matter of semantics, it's common sense and qualification. Annetta knows meerkat is not a doctor nor claiming to be one; she is a fellow problem-sufferer offering reassurance and advice and, basically, saying "go to your doctor and kick your heels for a referral"! Seems like sensible advice to me...

Let's face it, on a forum like this one only has a person's word for it about their own qualifications unless one has met them. I'm not claiming for a second that people are coming on here and claiming to be doctors when they're not, but if someone created an ID, said they were a doctor, and no one met them/they didn't get involved in many medically-related discussions - well, who would know if they were telling the truth? I certainly wouldn't be asking someone I only knew over the net for a diagnosis however well qualified they were. So it seems a bit crazy to suggest that someone who claims no medical experience is giving a diagnosis based on the fact they use similar language as a doctor offering a diagnosis.

Annetta, glad you are going to get an appointment. Kick up a fuss! I hope you get some help soon.

Meerkat, I wasn't having a go at you, I just know how ugly arguements about who is being patronising can be. And I too have had a run in with FC who despite both of our best intentions have wound the other one up. And your final question is it seasonal is certainly a question any allergy specialist will ask, as it will help with the diagnosis.

Annetta, good luck with the appointment, and don't let it hold back your singing. Keep water by you as you practice and sip it when you feel there's a problem with your throat.

It might be a quick-fix, but it will keep you singing whilst you get the rest sorted out.

However if it ever becomes too problematic stop!

Thanks Sarah,

Your help is very much appreciated!
Yes I hope I get it sorted and I will keep you posted.
That reply was very good and obviously very well thought out along the way and made perfect sense to me

Annetta xx

Sarah, very sensible post. (I would say that though... )

Jo, don't worry, I knew you weren't having a go!


Annetta, I really hope you manage to get it sorted. Good luck!

Thanks everyone,

I will let you know and I thank FC for his advice as well, even though you may have got in a bit of an argument with meerkat but everynes advice is equal

Annetta xx

Thanks everyone for all your advice...including FC, even though you and meerkat may not have agreed at one point, but thanks all the same

I will let you all know


Annetta xx

I hope you are able to get to the bottom of what is causing this, and that it can be successfully treated Annetta. Best wishes and do let us know how it progresses.



Amber
x

Hi guys

I have finally booked a doctors apointment for this morning Now I know what you all said..and it was very useful but I don't want to go in and say I think it is this and I want this (as I don't want them to think I know 100% what the problem is and give them a valid diagnosis.

Thanks

Annetta xx

Best of luck, Annetta, hope you get it sorted.