When a couple of my students play, the first knuckle joint on most of their fingers keeps collapsing and won't stay curved. I've tried several ways to train them into staying curved, like supporting the knuckle with their thumb and playing the note repeatedly, but I'm reaching my wits end as to how else I can help them. Their fingernails aren't too long, I think it's just a matter of their knuckles still being weak. Anyone had the same problem and have some helpful hints for me as to how to correct it?

Bree has the pupils got hyper-mobile joints?

I did a similar thread relating to a double-jointed student I had about three months back. There were some helpful replies. If you put 'double jointed' into the search it should come up.

I have hyper-moblie joints. I have to do extra exersises to strengthen my joints. I have more problems with the piano than the clarinet though. Playing scales helps.

I have a Grade 7 who's still got this problem! And my own seven-year-old (Grade 1) is the same. Both started playing very young - I wonder if this is relevant? I tell the latter to relax his hand completely, as if he is a puppet, and there is a string pulling up from his wrist to the ceiling. This seems to naturally put the knuckles back in the correct position, but only until he forgets to concentrate on his hand position, which is never very long!

I do find it scary when I see pianists playing all their notes through finger extensions through the lower joints. If the player gets into more complex playing, then the problem gradually disappears. But I think this question is worth considering - the sooner the better technique can be adopted, the sooner you are going to have your expressive pianist!

When learning rhythms, many of us would get the student clapping - so that rhythm could be isolated from playing. It is worth looking for a similar philosophy for this issue.

I was taught to keep fingers curved by practising at a table. Place hand in playing position and practice lifting finger up and down from the knuckle area. Practise lifting thumb up and down from its knuckle too while you are there.

This becomes a little routine the student can practise almost any time anywhere.

I get all of my beginners to perform "hand gymnastics" away from the piano when they begin lessons. They do these in the air first and then some of them on a table top. I usually find that when the piano stool at the correct height and the upper and forearms are in the correct position that the hand can be held in the right position too. When all of these things are right the fingers tend to be ok and donlt usually need correcting.

What sort of "hand gymnastics " do you mean - if it's possible to describe in writing! This sounds like fun, and could be useful to my two bendy-jointed students!

Here are some of the hand gymnastics that we do;
1 Make a tight fist and hold it then relax the hand into a spider shape keeping the hand level with the forearm and just uncurling the fingers. Do this in the air first and then with the fist shape in the air and the spider on a flat surface.
2 Make the spider do press-ups on a flat surface going from the relaxed position to a straight-fingered one.
3 Hold one hand in the air with the thumb towards the shoulder and a few inches away from it. Hold the lower arm, hand and fingers in a straight line and then make each finger wave three or four times, slowly wuthout disturbing the other fingers or moving the hand.
4 Make a spider shape, (a relaxed fist) resting the fingers lightly on a flat surface. Next make each finger tap a set number with a steady beat, again without letting the others move but always keeping the hand and fingers relaxed.
5 Spider on a mirror. Place both sets of fingers together with fingertips touching. Do press-ups and tapping with the fingertips.

These are really very simple but take much longer to describe than to do. They do work despite being simple.

I have not tried the idea of tightening fist first, but the idea of tension followed by relaxation is a technique that is recommended to overcome stress.

I will try this on my next "guinea pig"

Similarly, shoulder relaxation can be encouraged through "shrugging" them tensely and then letting them fall into the relaxed postion.

Have other teachers borrowed or adapted ideas from this methodology?

Thanks for all your help to date everyone. For their next lesson I'll have an armoury of techniques to throw at them! Cheers!

Thanks!