Hello All

Got my piano students exam results yesterday. Out of a group of eight, two failed Grade 2 for the second time. They are only youngsters (both 8) so there is plenty of time to work on their technical problems. However both sets of parents ( ) are saying it must be my teaching methods as they have both failed twice. I remember on the day that they were very nervous as they were re-sitting and didin't wan't to fail again. Maybe this had something to do with their performance? I think they had both got it in their heads they were going to fail, and therefore did. My other students got passes or merits, so I must be doing something right!

I have suggested that after the summer holidays, we forget about exams for a while and concentrate on technical issues. But they have both been put off continuing with their lessons now.

How do other tutors manage exam failure and parents suggesting it's our fault?

I haven't put pupils through exams, so limited advice only possible:
It might be worth comparing the two sets of mark sheets to see if there are any areas with which your pupils consistently have difficulties - it would help to identify where they might need more support, or where a different approach might be needed.
Nerves are often a problem in exams, and as a mature student who took her first exam on her current instrument only two years ago, I can identify with this one very fully... My kids' first piano teacher spent a lot of time on getting her pupils prepared for performance, rather than just playing their pieces - she had an annual "play-in", in which all her pupils played their best pieces to each other, starting with the lower grades and working up. She followed the performance bits with a great tea... There were also a couple of mock exams, and she covered how to walk in, how to settle (adjust the piano stool, etc), and she used the form of words the examiners have for each section of the exams. An examiner-friend of ours tells us that this teacher's pupils were always very well prepared.
Parents' criticisms are difficult to deal with, I'm sure - as with any complaint, it is better to acknowledge the other person's concerns, and if you feel you could do something different to help, say so - if not, don't spend too much time or energy on self-defence, and keep the conversation light.

I'm only a parent but if my child failed an exam I'd want to know why. Initially the fail will be a shock to the parents and the children. I expect the parents talked to you the first time they failed and worked with you to improve the children's weaknesses before they resat. How long was it to between the exams?

It's a good idea to compare the comments sheets, if the parents have calmed down you may be able to discuss your findings with them and the children. Try and think about what your other pupils do to achieve their marks. Do these two do something else? Speak with the parents about your findings in a supportive way, it might not change anything but they will respect you more than if you don't.

I think you need to know for yourself what happened anyway so you work out ways to take your teaching forward. I expect it's hard for the teachers on the forum to make suggestions too without an indication of what might have gone wrong.

Whatever you are teaching (I have taught - not music) it's got to be in partnership with your pupil and if they're a young child the parents must be involved on some level.

Hi Thanks for your reply.
I have a good relationship with the parents of the youngsters concerned. We will be comparing the feed back sheets when I see them again in September. They only sat the exam for the first time in the Spring so on reflection, maybe they needed to wait until November to take the exam again. However, when I suggested this, both children said that November was "ages away" and they wanted to get the exam over and done with. Again, both parents were aware that I wanted them to wait a bit longer to iron out any hitches. I'm hoping we can resolve the disappointments on all three sides, as I am just as disappointed as the children and the parents.

How did the other six do? What was on the comments sheets of the two who failed? Are you under pressure to put your pupils through exams, by any chance? I think it's much harder to get school-based students through than homebased; I'm assuming these are school-based students.

If the other six just scraped through and they're all school-based I would seize a bit of control here and resist exams for a bit - they're not the be-all and end-all and can kill enthusiasm if you don't get good results.....that's my view anyway. Focus on getting them to play stuff they really like to get them practising more - then think again about exams...

Violinia

Agreed - looking at your second post CA, it appears you perhaps allowed the students/parents to overrule you on the timetable of these exams. It's easily done. I don't see how the parents can criticise you if you suggested waiting longer. Leaving exams for a while and concentrating on general improvement sound like a good idea.

I had two students fail exams this session too, but never had the same student fail the same exam twice. Don't let anyone make you feel its your fault. You can lead a horse to water, you can not make them drink.

Both students are keen to reenter again this session as as they got the Trinity 1 below pass, thats what I currently intend to do. But well see it depends how they sound after the hols. At least I know which areas need particular work...and so do they.

I like pupils to be close to a pass mark by the entry date, otherwise I prefer not to enter them. After the entry is in, it's onward and upward, perfecting and fine-tuning. As Jod says, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, so I use the entry date a a deadline in their minds. I've never had any fails, but I had a few this time round who promised me faithfully that they would practise their scales, but left it too late, and their marks were lower than they should have been for this reason. So I've told them I won't be making that mistake again! One mother once accused me of not being happy anything other than distinctions, but this is not the case; but I think a teacher needs to leave room for marks to fall below what's expected, due to nerves and unforeseen errors. It's a pain that entry dates are so far in advance of the exams themselves - sometimes a crystal ball would be handy.

In answer, no, I don't think it's neccesarily the teacher's fault if someone fails an exam - but do consider whether there is anything to be gained from doing these again. What about a different board - or different pieces - if you don't just want them to move on?

I found it was not uncommon for a child who had failed once to fail the second time as well.

Liz

Before I enter any pupils for exams I want to be really sure that they have at least two of their pieces up to at least pass level Their sight reading skills should be reasonable for the grade or diploma also, and scales etc well on the way otherwise I do not make the entry. I am so much older than most of the parents whose children I teach now that my word is law and I will not make an entry until the time is right. Were you pushed into entering these before you would have wanted to I wonder? Sometimes exam nerves do get in the way, and the way around that is to make sure that their work is so well prepared that they can practically run on autopilot. Had they had much practice at playing to others too? It is a very different feeling playing to a stranger than to ones teacher or parents. (Some are not even happy doing that!) I think they need time away from exam stress an to have some confidence-building fun for the next few lessons. Tell the parents that failing an exam does not make them lesser musicians, just that things went wrong on the day. We all have our off days after all. Don't feel badly about it unless on reflection you think that perhaps you did not devote enough time to working at aural work, scales or whatever.

I would not want my child to be entered for an exam if they were not well on their way to playing the pieces before the closing date. I agree that it's not the teachers fault if a child fails an exam, even though I can understand from a parents point of view their frustration.

Our recorder teacher keeps a log book in which she writes down the things the girls need to practise. I can look at it any time with them and encourage them to work on their weaknesses. I may not always understand what she is expecting of them but it's easy to check firstly with them and if they are not sure with her (she's always on the other end of an email). To see things written in black and white might put them off pushing for exams too early. The parents and children have to share the responsibility with the teacher for exam prep.

Encourage the parents to get the children to play for them, friends and other family members to build confidence at least that's what I would do if it were my child.

I

It certainly isn't always the teachers fault! From my own personal slant on this, I always keep parents fully informed regarding the pupils progress/weaknesses and how problems can be sorted out. Learning however, is a joint effort, I can impart knowledge to those who wish to learn, but without effort from the student to carry out the tasks I cannot help them further. I cannot play for them.

Apart from the nerves - which can be the downfall of even the most talented player at top professional level - a lack of preparation by the pupil is usually a major factor. The teacher can only do so much, ie. suggest a practice schedule, list what the student really needs to concentrate and work on, helps the pupil overcome any technical hurdles that are standing in their way and perhaps enlists a parent to offer encouragement between lessons when the pupil's morale may be low. However, at the end of the day, the teacher can talk until they are blue in the face, but if the pupil won't practice, there is little else that can be done. In this case a diplomatic chat with the parent is often the way to go - especially if the child is particularly stubborn or un-co-operative over practice.

I currently have one pupil who will (under their mother's instruction I hasten to add) be entered for their Grade 4 violin exam in the autumn, but I doubt very much if they will pass. We are currently battling with a chronic lack of practice - even more so over the summer, since this pupil won't have even touched the violin for about 8 weeks!! - and the practice that is done is a careless and slapdash 5 minutes twice a week at most! This pupil got 101 for their Grade 3 violin exam.......and all parties know exactly what the problems are and what the solutions to them are. So, as you can see, this is an ongoing issue which can only get worse as the grades progress and has yet to be resolved. The parents are well aware that it will not be my fault if/when this child fails the exam.

This, like many other threads, is heading in the direction of "blaming the parent"! "Entered against my will" crops up again again, and perhaps this is the problem. Whatever your age, a teacher should be able to say to a parent, "No, I'm not entering him." If the parent feels strongly that he/she knows best, then the parent can be given an entry form to do it themselves, in their own name. Personally, I would make sure that it was in writing somewhere, if only in the child's notebook, that this entry is against your better judgement. Allowing an older student, such as an A-Level student, to make their own decisions, is one thing, but if a younger child fails a music exam, you can rest assured that very few parents are going to say, "My fault!" Most will look at the teacher - rightly or wrongly.

I had my first ever theory exam failure this time. Not blaming the parent and am not blaming myself, the reason for the failure lies fairly and squarely with the pupil. She was due to take Grade 5 theory in February and I wouldn't enter her because she was not showing me she could pass the exam. By the time I entered her for the June exam she was scoring good pass marks on the past papers. She managed to score zero marks on one question in the exam - only one explanation, she simply did not read the question properly and failed to do what was asked. She also scored low marks on several other questions. Knowing that her mind has very little room for anything other than thoughts of boys, I'm not totally surprised. There was probably a good looking boy sitting in front of her and she didn't concentrate!!! I am very cross with her, although I shall restrict my comments to expressions of regret and point out the importance of reading the question!!!!

Some parents won't take NO for an answer. Regarding the pupil taking their Grade 4 this autumn, it was supposed to have been taken in the summer, but I refused to enter them for it.

The autumn entry is to be arranged through the childs school and the entry will be in the name of the Head of Music at the school, not mine, thankfully.

I only have one expectation of my pupils and that is they practice what I have taught them. Those who do, gain ground very rapidly and successfully, those who don't practice, well, put simply, I cannot do the practice for them.

Some do well in the lower grades but still think they can take grade 5 on ten minutes of practice three times a week.

I think you've summed it up very nicely.

My thoughts exactly. What more could one say.

OUCH!! Up until now, my teaching skills have never come in to question. As far as the lessons were concerned, they were both at pass standard. On the day they walked in to the waiting area, both said they were expecting to fail. I said they had worked hard (which they had and this was not just me soft soaping them) and ought to pass, but I was prepared to speak to the steward if both children and their parents decided they were not confident enough to go on. All concerned said they would try their best. Both feed back sheets picked up on technical mistakes during the three pieces. They scored enough to pass the aural, sightreading and scales. I have always completed practice books for all my students and pointed out to both sets of parents that the pieces required more work technically. Right up to the cut off date for the applications to be in, I gave them the opportunity to wait until November. No, they are not school pupils, but private. Anything more I could have done..........???

Maybe. It is, however, quite possible that CA has done everything correctly and just been very unfortunate.

For many years I used to boast "my students don't fail". Then, guess what - one did. The truth is, however carefully we and students prepare, results cannot be guaranteed. Everyone is capable of having an off day.

For the first time this session i refused to enter a student for a G4 trumpet exam as I didn't feel he was at the requried standard. I had 2 boys at the same school, same instrument, same tutor group and age both wanting to do the exam so I set both of them the challenge of being able to play all of their scales and arpeggios and their pieces to the basic standard I felt necessary by their last lesson before the closing date for entries. One boy showed just about enough to be entered and the other thought I wasn't serious and would entere him anyway so didn't practice much! So I told him I wouldn't enter him - he then told me he was relieved because he didn't really want to do it but Mum said he had to do one exam per year otherwise he was falling behind and wasn't good enough! (it was 18 months since his Grade 3)

I had to speak to Mum and she was very upset as his saxophone teacher had been putting off his Grade 4 sax for 2 years and Mum thought he should have been entered for it and then I wasn't prepared to put him in for his trumpet one either so he must be doing really badly. I explained my reasons for not entering him and she took it well, but I did conceed to entering him this next term if he is ready.

The other student who had learnt all his scales and could play his pieces took his Grade 4 and passed (112) but didn't continue the good work that he had started off with as he felt he had loads of time because we had started "so early"

Not sure if I was right to test both of them or not as it didn't really work - back to the drawing board then!

I think one point that hasn't been made so far is, "Is the child sufficiently interested to continue with their lessons and committed enough to practice".

Very often parents are behind the child, trying to give an encouraging push, giving them all the usual spiel: it's good for you, it's character building, you'll be doing something your friend(s) can't, it's team work (in the case of ensemble playing), but have some of them really considered what the children wants to do? Yes, we all know that children are fickle creatures, one week they want to be a vet, the next they will want to be a dancer, and the following a week a solicitor. Somewhere along the line they might fancy being a musician, until, like any other profession, they discover it's not possible to play like the chap they saw in a concert or whatever without a decade and a half of tuition and even more time spend practicing. Having to put in hard work is where it can sort the men from the boys and the girls from the women - how committed and more importantly, interested, is the child to playing their instrument, not how committed or interested is the parent in pushing the child into playing.

On the other hand from what I've seen, children do tend to want things handed to them on a plate these days and many don't have any concept of the fact that we, as adults, had to work hard to get where we are now. Children are skilled at getting away with not working simply by saying "I can't do it", or "It's too difficult". Bursting into tears usually has a similar effect. I once had a pupil who thought I'd always been able to play the violin professionally - that I was born with it sticking out from my neck, much in the same way I was born with two legs and two arms. He could not be convinced by anything that I had to spend many years practicing and lots of money on tuition to achieve what I had.

With so many activities these days, there is a miriad of things for children to try and sometimes I do get the feeling the parents are attempting to relive their childhoods through their own children by getting them involved in activities they would have liked to have done themselves as a child. Sometimes they can't accept that little Freddy or Daisy just aren't cut out for, or indeed really interested in some of the activities they are doing.

It's our responsibility as parents to let children know that you have to work at things, too many think it'll be alright their so and so will get where ever they want to be.

I don't think anyone is questioning your skills as such - just saying that yes, a fail can be a reflection of bad teaching. I think the advice to check the exam reports, look at others' reports etc, to check if there's something that's widespread is very sound - you may find an easy-to-remedy spot in your teaching which doesn't live up to the rest. If all your other students are fine across the board, then it would suggest you can't be doing everything wrong, and you need to look specifically as these students.

It may simply be that they're too effected by nerves and aren't suited to taking loads of exams, or it may be that they have technical weaknesses that need to be looked at. You're the only one in a position to work it out. Someone said in a different thread, and I think they could be right, that retaking an exam could in some ways be more nerve-wracking than taking it the first time: maybe that's what happened.

Amandal - I really identify with this. As a child, we had one reception room, in which was both piano and TV. I was told to shut up when Morcambe and Wise came on. These days, parents do all they can to get a child to practise. I seriously worry for the future of music. It's a throw-away, easy come/easy go society, where it's all too easy to say "too hard/can't be bothered". There is no conception, any more, of "you get out what you put in". Failing a music exam is not something I would have contemplated as a child - but things are different now.

To throw another spanner into the works. If they sit in the waiting room saying they will fail, they have not made a pact of some kind to do just that?

My girls danced long before they started playing music and I've heard those types of comment before, usually from someone who goes on to get very high marks.

Even the ones really struggling never sat and said they would fail and we all knew who they were, no doubt they did too as their teacher was very vocal.

It's definitely a good idea to scrutinise the comments sheets, because the remarks there can tell you an awful lot, especially if the same comments keep cropping up.

I noticed the comment 'needs more shaping' more than once, so realised I had to focus more on the phrasing aspect, which I now do, and a student just got a lovely comment about her phrasing (and a fantastic score for a piece - 29!!!), so it really does pay for the teacher as well as the student to study and reflect on the comments sheets.

Violinia

I always look at the comments sheet too. It gives me a better idea on where things went wrong in the eyes of the examiner. I also learn from the construnctive comments too.

With my grade 4 student her problem is lack of projection. That is going to be easy to work on. With my grade 6 student, when she gets nervous her intonation goes...and it went. So its a case of looking at the repertoire on offer to give her a better chance.

Oh believe me, it's more than possible! I did my Grade 5 Bassoon on less than that (maybe 5 minutes twice a week) and I passed with 128. Individuals can vary enormously; you would be surprised by what some people can (and cannot) do.

Shh! I know some people can do this but its not the norm. As teachers this is not the sort of things we as a breed like to encourage!

Please don't take offence at this but I do think some instruments are easier technically than others. Violin is hard! And with piano you're using 10 fingers at once... not so easy either.

Violinia

No offence taken! I agree to some extent, but I also think it depends a lot on the individual. I found the bassoon hard - harder than the violin and much harder than the piano. Reaching the high notes, coordinating my fingers and making a good sound were things that I found very hard technically and never really conquered. In contrast, the piano has always seemed natural to me and not something at all difficult. Despite not feeling nearly as comfortable playing the bassoon, I was still able to make quick progress on it. But maybe you have found otherwise.

If a parent unilaterally enters a child for an examination, as far as I am concerned, they are the party "presenting" the child for the examination. Without consensus with the teacher, they must determine how the child will get there. He/she can delegate Aural Tests and Sight Reading to the parent or an outside teacher - I have seen that done.

Don't forget there is the other problem where a teacher is actually holding the student back, not entering examinations unless there is a 90 per cent chance of distinction. Also setting the easiest pieces in each list -
(a) To seek higher marks
( To be teaching only the familiar as far as possible.

I would suggest most teachers in this category would not be in this forum!

You need to set up a 3-way meeting Parent - Child - Teacher to plan way forward - convincing the family of the best way to make positive progress going forward.

Hello all. Thank you for your comments, which-on the whole- have been useful. As an update, both sets of parents have been in touch to say that in hindsight (that wonderful skill we all seem to have!) I was right not to want to enter the children in this session. The suggestions about looking at the comments sheets, writing practice books, suggesting missing out the Grade, involving parents etc, etc, etc are all things I've done since I started teaching. People are people and if these two (who happen to be very good friends from school) made a pact to fail for whatever reason, then there isn't a great deal I can do about that, except try and advise them as to what to do next time.
Don' t know if I will be entering any in the next session- I think hibernation sounds quite appealing!! Night all!

Can identify with that

Glad you have settled things to both yours and the parents' satisfaction.

I prefer not to enter my pupils for exams unless there's a 90% chance of at least a merit - I really don't see the point. There are far too many lapsed musicians out there who plodded joylessly through the grades, just scraping a pass at each level and then dropping out at around Grade 5 level because whatever enthusiasm was there in the beginning had long since dried up. Why do it? Are so many teachers at a loss at how to motivate and develop their students without exams?

I've taken on countless thoroughly demoralised students who've been trained in this way, scraping passes at Grades 1, 2 and perhaps 3, hardly playing any pieces outside Grade repertoire.... I usually ask them whether they'd like a break from exams altogther and do something dfferent and they tend to jump at the idea. So we explore all sorts of repertoire from jazz to blues to Klezmer to folk, using backing CD's to liven up practice sessions - whatever's available really. I encourage them to play live wherever possible - at familiy parties, local music-making workshops - we have a fantastic thing near me called 'Creative Factory'.

This has led to, in recent weeks - one student (17) being invited to play with a well-known rock band on stage last week in front of hundreds , another playing at an art exhibition private view (16), another deciding to play the violin while on a charity fun run (14) and another taking his violin along to the local pub to join in with a folk session (11). These students are far less likely to give up the violin in the long term than those who take the route of scraping pass after pass and focussing mainly on grade repertoire.

If they want to do exams then of course we'll do them, but surely it's better to 'drop down' to a grade then spend months struggling up to them, and why on earth the assumption that a teacher is 'holding their students back' by not proceeding by the grade route? A teacher is holding their students back if they don't teach appropriate repertoire that steadily develops their technique whilst also being musically stimulating and enjoyable. A teacher is holding their students back if they don't provide a wide variety of repertoire from every musical period and also from right outside the classical repertoire. A teacher is also holding their students back if they don't teach aural skills, scales, arpeggios and sight-reading, but you don't need grade exams to make sure you teach them.

And if a student develops steadily and then decides they want to take a more advanced grade without ploughing through all the earlier ones, why on earth not? My teacher was Hungarian and had never heard of grade exams when she came to this country. I needed Grade 5 at some point to join an orchestra so she just helped me with the Grade 5 repertoire and it was the first grade I did. So where's the real need for grade after grade, except for the (rare) student who can't be motivated in any other way?

Violinia

Success breeds success, as they say. Some children are never going to be distinction candidates, but it does seem sensible to work down to an exam, except if a child needs the kick up the backside...

Quite right, Noodle!

One thought though to be fair - if you were getting 25+ for your pieces, ie playing them quite well, but falling down on everything else, then you could still be a good player even though you were only scraping passes. However, as a stickler for aural, I would have severe doubts about a candidate who fell down severely on aural tests as well, especially with the earlier grades. Playing music isn't just about reading dots, putting fingers in the right places and applying dynamics, and if you're not able to feel music from within, which will make you really good at aural tests without trying, then you're more of a technician than a musician.

However, that's a whole other argument!

So what I meant here was: if you got, say 28 for each of your pieces, and 16 for aural, plus zilch for sight-reading and scales, this would give you a scraped pass of 100 marks! So you could conceivably be a good player with a scraped pass - just one who could only play by ear and hadn't bothered to learn their scales! However, it's unlikely that you'd do so badly at scales if you were good at aural, so to be fair I think you could only fail horribly on the sight-reading test while still being a genuinely good player. 28x3 plus, say 18 for scales and 16 for aural would give you 122 - a merit. Which brings me back to the original point - that something crucial must be missing with a scraped pass.

Therefore don't plough on to the next grade until you've worked out what's missing - there's little to be gained.

Violinia

I agree with practically all the advice that has been given to the original person who raised the issue of the 2 Grade II's failing twice in a row. My rule of thumb, if I'm in doubt is first to ask the pupil whether he thinks he is capable of doing the exam in that particular month. I will then clear it with the Mum and/or Dad. In exceptional circumstances I may even withdraw a candidate if he has not practised as he had promised for a particular deadline. However, that said, I think there is more damage done by waiting too long rather than entering a candidate when he is likely to be just "ripe" for the experience. Distinction-hunting teachers do a lot of damage and do not consider the child's interests sufficiently. It's enough to put a child off an instrument, or worse still, off music altogether if he is forced to work doggedly at pieces and techniques which are fast becoming jaded and tired, lacking all spontaneity and enthusiasm. I think it is also a great disservice to children who are trying to get to, say, Grade VIII by their Upper Sixth year (Year 14 in modern parlance) to hold them back for too long at this or that level. I am a part-time piano tutor who takes 5 pupils weekly in my spare time in Northern Ireland. For my "day job" I teach in a grammar school. So I know all about lazy adolescents who in some cases think they know better than to take advice from their elders and betters. So don't beat yourself up. If they are not satisfied there are probably other teachers they can go to who are far less conscientious than yourself and the penny will eventually drop that the fault lies primarily with their own little darling!

That's a very sweeping statement. Distinction hunting teachers - what on earth could be wrong with encouraging your students to do as well as they possibly can?

The damage only occurs when too long is spent preparing for an exam and only 3 pieces are studied ad tedium. The remedy for this is to 'drop down' to a grade rather than study up to it. Simple really.

Violinia

You highlight a dilemma I faced recently. Is it better to send a candidate with pieces prepared well now, knowing that a high merit or distinction is unlikely - or to spend another 4 or 5 months pursuing greater levels of perfection in everything. You might be chasing up to 15 marks I suppose, but in the meantime you could have been moving on to new repertoire, more quickly learning lessons in new material that would be hard to inject into the old!

I certainly use examinations a method of "studying up" to a new level, and my own teacher did the same. I think there should be a challenge to the student to reach a new level rather than reinforce the current.

I have also noted that some students achieving ordinary passes in low grades can get higher passes later through earlier focus on good technique and playing a diverse range of material.

The question is quite complex.

I think it depends what someone means by a distinction hunter: if it's intended to mean "playing the pieces and scales ad nauseum for 9 months so that the pupil gets a distinction" then yes, that's not a good thing: I think waiting till the pupil is good enough to learn the pieces in a reasonably short time and to get a good mark anyway is not damaging.

I don't see why teachers can't 'challenge the student to reach a new level rather than reinforce the current' without exams!!!

I didn't take any exams until Grade 5 and then passed with a distinction, as my teacher didn't like the exam system and hadn't put me through any till then, but also happened to be a very good teacher. It wasn't even her that entered me for the exam - my mother's name is on the certificate - my teacher didn't want anything to do with it and I only did it to get into an orchestra or something. Anyway, she must have been constantly challenging me to reach new levels, and if you can't reach new levels without exams then there wouldn't be any skilled musicians in the countries that don't have the musical exam system, and this is obviously not the case!

Also, ordinary passes at low grades followed by higher passes at higher grades - I suspect this is the exception rather than the norm. As each exam is harder surely the norm is to struggle to do equally well at each level unless the teacher is exceptional and the student exceptionally motivated.

Also, there's no reason not to study other repertoire as well as Grade pieces while working towards a grade; if the other pieces are at the right level they can only enhance the playing of the grade pieces. My student who just got a distinction at Grade 1 was also learning other repertoire at the same time - we would have both hated for her to focus only on 3 pieces!!!

Violinia

Sorry to state the obvious, but why can't a pupil decide? I hated exams and was made to take grades 1-5, somehow I got a distinction in all of them but I always dreaded exams just because of the run up. It's boring and I've always thought it takes too long - even a term was too much for me.
After grade 5 (I was 11 or 12) I told my parents and teacher I wouldn't be taking any more exams, and then I started to enjoy playing violin. I learnt so much more in that time because I wasn't taking a term out each year when effectivley I learnt nothing. My teacher entered me against my will (although my parents wanted me entered too) for grade 7 in summer 2005, because he thought I would get a distinction easily - but I refused to turn up to the exam on the day, because I hadn't practiced well enough to get a distinction, because I hadn't done the time-honoured thing of wasting 3 months on exam stuff. Next term, I insisted on being entered for grade 8, gave myself 2 months to learn everything (bearing in mind I hadn't played a scale or done aural/SR for 4 years) and came out with a good distinction.

The only thing that had been stopping me from doing this was being forced into the exam routine by teachers. My parents didn't really care one way or the other most of the time, but no-one ever asked me what I wanted to do and as a result I got really ####ed off, had a lot of time wasted, and threw away the grade 7 entry fee.


And I'm what most people would call motivated. No wonder people fail exams - and most people are made to spend a lot longer than a term preparing for them. I'd die of bordeom - I couldn't even get through the 2 months before my grade 8 without starting new repertoire because I was sick of the same 3 pieces.

EDIT: Despite this, I still think working down for exams is a slightly better option than working up, but neither should be done to a great extent. I'm not sure about this "enter the pupil when they are ready" approach - it must often result in 2 months of dead time, if you insist on this policy. How about entering a pupil when they are at grade X standard, so that they can tackle the stuff quickly and well, go into the exam fresh and not bored of the pieces, but at a high enough standard to know they aren't going to let themselves down?

Some teachers are only geared towards exams, their knoweledge of suitable piecec even for their first instrument is slim.

Since starting flute my daughter has moved up the exam system quite quickly, she will sort out similar level pieces for herself to play, nor am I beyond taking advice from helpful forum members. I would lbe delighted if her teacher was able to keep her motivated without moving from one exam to the next.

At the end of term we took all our books to the final lesson and asked for pieces to practise over the holiday. The books ranged from Disney, to take the lead as well as those listed on various AB grades. She took all the books from the case without interest pulled out Wastall Practise Sessions and gave her 3 pieces to work on. I'm sure they will help her tone but they are not exactly motivational for an 11 year old. She knows my child always practises during holidays and could have given her more guidance.

A teachers attitude is vital to encourage a child musically, their knowledge of the Instument all important, a good teacher will always recognise a childs individuality.

People have suggested before that the teachers visiting this forum are not always typical of those encountered. I'm glad to say that our other teachers don't have this attitude.

I think that what is coming out of this is that there is no such thing as a "norm". Some pupils only push themselves when they are entered for an exam that they really have to strive for, and others get the most satisfaction from draining the most emotion possible from every single note in a grade which is possibly below their ability. Some will never do well in the sight-reading, others will use this ability to pull up a mark that would otherwise imply mediochre playing. Different strokes for different folks! Personally, I like to see at least a pass standard by the entry date, because, no matter what they say or think, practice is never guaranteed to be as much as we'd like!

A comment on notsomusicmum's last statement about the teachers here not necessarilly being typical - I think you may have a point - you're not here if you're not extremely interested!

I have a term for working on music that is too comfortable for the performer - sight reading! Yes a person who passes GradeVII will find Grade IV and V music great to sight read and relax with.

You've got to use something to challenge a student to progress - examination pieces serve the purpose very well. After passing any particular grade, I find that the next grade will be pitched at about the right level. Well done ABRSM.

Questions about timing of readiness are a little academic for us because our entries have to be submitted more than 3 months prior to the Examination. You need to assess where you are now, agree on an exam date and work to it. I think it is best to set a real challenge but what you think will be a manageable one.

Sorry but I really don't think exams are the only way to challenge a student to progress! As for going straight to the next grade - a rather unimaginative way to proceed in my view. Why not take a break from exams for a couple of years and come back at a higher grade?

Some professional musician friends of mine take this approach with their daughter; they would cringe at the very idea of her ploughing from grade to another. She started at grade 1, then jumped to grade 5 three years later. Now she's working towards grade 8 and why not? Meanwhile she goes to string workshops, has had jazz lessons and is now in the National Children's Orchestra. She's certainly inspired but most of her repertoire is well outside grade material.

Violinia

As a reward for my 9 year old daughter passing her Grade 4 trombone exam I went shopping with her today and along with the usual necessities like school shoes I bought her 3 music books - 2 from Guest spot series and 1 disney book all with CD backings. She is currently blasting through Hey Jude on her baritone which she hadn't played for weeks! Don't think she would be doing it if she was only moving on to more exam music, no matter how the good the syllbus choices are!

Failed grade 2 twice? Sounds like a major tutor failure to me.

How much can you really expect?