Hi. Long time didn't post already. Last time, I did ask about my students being entered into exam without my permission, is the school's decision to enter them. I have no say to it. Now, one grade 2 just scrapely passed his exam. And another grade 5 indeed FAILED it. Now, the principal is looking at me with a different 'face'. She told me only one student in her school failed. All the piano students passed, only one violin student failed (and that is my grade 5 student).

This grade 2 who passed, I made him 'practice' pieces during lessons, so he passed all her pieces, but failed the other sections (except aural ) of course. But this grade 5, she only tries to practice during the last month prior to her exam. She failed every section of her exam, except aural (for she is a piano teacher). But these two students still want to continue their lessons (and of course the grade 2 WILL be sitting for his grade 3 exam next year, as usually forced by the principal to enrol despite my objection). At last this grade 5 failed, so no more grade 6 I guess next year, but she still comes for lessons WITHOUT any practice done at home Her technique is so bad, what I can say is the basic is very very poor for her, as stated by the examiner too.

I felt of stop teaching these two students, but if I do, there will be no teachers around to teach them for the moment...what shall I do...

Well, this is the first fail which I encountered. And I still have a bunch of students sitting for their exams next week, which made me shrug at the thought of it... scared...scared...

Happygirl (sad now)...

Hi Happy Girl:

Will it be a good suggestion to talk to the students' parent about it?? By hearing what you said , it seems like that the students are not paying any interest in improving their skills on their instruments. As a ex-student myself, I understand how they feel, they want to do something really fun, and are ambitious for their future, I believe that would like to jump straight to G8 asap!! But the problem now here is, they're not go to practise on technical studies. My advise is to find(or compose) something that is initially simpler, and enhance on the technical ability, so they feel good on practising it, then progress on something more complex. Try to communicate with their parents more in order to check their progress. Also explain to the principal that you're going all these progressive helping, so that if the students fail, it's their own responsiblity.

Yes, that's what I feel about the grade 2 student. He is actually forced to learn. But the parents are too willing to pay for lessons. He is in secondary school, yet progressing on 20 pages of Grade 1 theory for 2 months!

But to find/compose something simpler is quite difficult...because I myself learn a lot through all kinds of studies. Is there any particular books available (it is quite difficult to get teaching materials in my music center also).

Yes, I did talk to the grade 2 student's parents. They just say let him do whatever he can. And just continue to learn But I have no one to talk to for the grade 5 student, which is a teacher herself

What a nasty situation for you to! I do sympathise. If the grade two student's parents are so keen for him to learn perhaps you could let him try another instrument? If piano playing really is not his thing he might prefer something else. Many young lads enjoy playing the guitar. And as for the grade five, if she is a piano teacher then she should know better than to practise for a month only! I would go to see the principal and explain the problems in these two taking any more exams.

Happygirl, I know how hard you have tried with these pupils. It is not your fault that they did not practise. And particularly with the Grade 5 person, who is a teacher, they should know that practice is important for any exam.

I think you should point this out to the Principal. I know this will be difficult for you, but what you should do is to write down on a piece of paper what you want to say about these pupils. Then when you talk to the principal, just keep reading out the piece of paper.

Also remind the principal (put it on your piece of paper) that you did not want the Grade 5 person to take the exam as you knew she had not done the work for it.

IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT THEY FAILED. YOU DID EVERYTHING YOU COULD. YOU HAVE BEEN A GOOD TEACHER.

Read that three times over. You know it's true, just believe it.

Petrat, both students are doing on violin, sorry forgotten to write about that in my post. And it seems like violin is a lot harder for most students! I guess I'll have to see how things go after one or two months... Last year I did explain to the principal about this situation, but she insists on them doing another grade this year.... so, I guess next year the history is going to repeat itself if they were to take any more exams...

Happy Girl SAY NO!

Why do their parents want them to carry on if they don't practise? I trust someone is paying for lessons?

I'm really lucky that both my girls practise the eldest could do a bit more, but the youngest is so committed. I just would not pay for lessons they did not have any interest in.

Lend the Principal a Violin and ask her to do an exam on it next year! Or get her to give up some time to here these two practise, tell them thats whats going to happen it might move them to do it for themselves.

I'm so cruel!

I really don't see why you should carry the responsibility.

^ what they said!

I think it's terribly sad that a teacher should end up worried and scared about the results of an exam she didn't want her pupil to be entered for Something seriously wrong in that picture

Happygirl, you need to write a letter to the principal too, to say that you had advised that the pupils were not ready for the examinations. Make your case very clear. Say that it is due to lack of practise for the grade 5 failure and that you have asked her to practise many times.

If you continue to teach these pupils, particularly the grade 5 pupil, keep some very good notes for yourself of each lesson, so that you know when you reminded him/her to practise, whether he/she actually does practise, and exactly how much progress is made, so that when the question of another exam. comes up, you will have written evidence to say yes or no, this pupil is ready or not - look here's what I've done with him/her.

Thanks everyone for the encouragement. Indeed I have warned them against failing if they still choose not to practice. It is their choice to fail then I guess

Katjay,

Yes, especially the grade 5 student, she should have practiced a lot more for the exam. Imagine she arrived at the exam center on the exam day, complaining on sore arms because of the practice the day before!

I think this grade 5 student knows that she cannot go further on with Grade 6 next year. Last year, she miracleously passed her grade 4 (the examiner doesn't play violin). But this year, their examiner does play the violin. So, I guess that makes the difference...

Nonmusimum,

This grade 2 student had problems with his studies in school as well, obtaining Ds and Es all the time. If he doesn't come to have lessons, he will ended up playing games at the shops nearby. Thus, the father put him for lessons What a reason...



Yeah! Exactly! Let the principal try playing the violin then She knows the 'noise' these students made out of violin before the exams, since her room is next to mine

Noodle:


Actually, now I am thinking of passing them to another teacher, if I manage to find one. One teacher that I know now is quite hot-tempered, always shouting in class, yet his students don't play in tune..imagine that...
I don't have the pleasure in teaching them at all!

sarahflute:
Yeah, something is very wrong here. I need to do something soon...

susie:
Yes, I'll talk to the principal soon if she still continues to look at me with that kind of 'face'.

Easier said than done, but be brave - this is NOT your fault. So don't let anyone tell you that it is. I hope you manage to get something sorted out!!

Have you seen that film, "Risky Business", starring Tom Cruise, which ends with him saying, "Sometimes in life, you've just gotta say, " What the f***." ?

Hope I'm not moderated for this...

Happygirl. what kind of school is this? A state-funded school or a private school? Who entered the students without your permission? The Head of Music? You must talk to him/her very seriously and explain that it is YOUR decision and yours alone when they take a grade exam. Tell him/her you don't want any failures and you can't be held responsible for the amount of practice your students do - in the end it's up to them. Explain that failing music exams is NOT a good motivator for future practice iun the vast majority of cases. Make yourself absolutely clear!

Violinia, appalled

It is a private school. The principal of the school will enter them for exams.
Indeed failing music exams is not good for them. But what about the student who scrapely pass the exam? with 106 in grade2? I have no idea whether to trouble myself and teach him grade 3 for next year. Actually, I can't figure out how he passed the exam at all!

Happygirl

Excuse me for saying this, but your principle does indeed seem bull-headed. I think she should take a course in violin and take Grade 3 next year! That would be how the students feel like, I expect!

As for the students.. I don't think they are really motivated enough to practice or it could that they were entered too soon for exams when they haven't really reached the standard required. It would be much better to enter a few years later than to 'force' them to upgrade in this manner.

Sigh... it's sad that people who manage schools don't listen to their teachers and staff.
I'm fortunate to be in a centre where the boss leaves the decision to me.

Out of interest, when you took the job, did the Head explain that he would be entering them for Grade exams, not you? Is the Head a music specialist - or not? Does he closely monitor your students' progress? In other words, how can he possibly have the authority to know when they're ready unless he monitors them constantly?

Or does he just think they should do the next grade every summer term regardless of how they're doing practice-wise?

Violinia

I understand some of the music schools charge more for lessons as a person moves up the grades? I wonder if that is one of the reasons the head is keen to get students through. Terrible reason, of course

that's disgusting! progress and achievement should be rewarded and not punished by increased fees!

Until Happygirl tells us we won't know for sure but I reckon this Head probably expects the music students to do a grade each year. If this is true, I can't imagine a more soul-destroying way o learning an instrument, both for the students and for the teacher - the pressure on both must be immense. If either of the Heads of music demanded this in either of the (state) schools I teach in, I don't know what I'd do if it was in the terms of the job. Neither of my heads of music have any say in what I do re exams; one of them tells me not to bother unless they really want it, because she feels enthusiasm is all and has seen too many times how pressure to do exams can kill enthusiasm. The other does ask me from time to time but there's no pressure.

I've put one student at that school through grade 2 and the Head of Music was delighted when she got a good merit, but I taught her individually and gave her extra lessons at my house in the run-up to the exam. With violin this is what it takes, especially if they have been previously badly taught. I'm also going to put another student at the other school through grade 1 soon as she wants to do it/her mother wants her to, and she's very talented - plus I teach her on her own, which helps - AND she practises a lot.

With group lessons and kids who don't practise enough, putting violin students through exams must be a nightmare and Happygirl has my every sympathy. She should have a good talk with the Principal about her concerns and the difficulty of teaching violin to students who don't practise effectively or enough - asap.

Violinia

Hello,

Sorry, I was out of town for few days, where I have no internet access. So, sorry for the late replies...

Violin-ann,
Exactly!

Violinia,
Nope, the Head didn't mention about entering into exams, but nearing exam deadline, she'd ask me to enrol all students for exams.She is not a specialist in violin, of course she doesn't monitor their progress, and she also knows how terrible 'noise' my students are making when playing violin.



Exactly!

Sarah-flute and KixMusic



Yes, unfortunately I think that is part of the reason too!

In that case why not ask for a meeting with her and express your (experienced!) view that it does nothing for a pupil to fail an exam, and that you'd rather not enter anyone until they have reached at least a comfortable pass standard by the entry date, which after all is only going to be a couple of months before the exam.

Explain that without a string-playing parent who is prepared to help at home with practice, violin is a difficult instrument at the best of times. And that without a string-playing parent the very least a pupil needs is to practice at least 4 times a week for at least half an hour and that in most cases a parent will need to supervise that or at least make sure it happens.

You could also tell her that it's actually contra the child's interest to enter them before they're ready, because it causes unnecessary stress, and a failure will just damage confidence and make the child feel like giving up altogether, which is surely the last thing the Principal would want.

Hope that helps.

Violinia

Ya, I can try talking to the principal, but those two students that I am having problem with now are 16 years, and another is adult teacher. So, I guess they don't need parents to supervise their practice, but they just don't listen and don't bother to touch their violin, I can say is not more than one time in a week.

OK, so you've got to find some way of motivating them to practise, because the threat of exams obviously isn't doing the trick. And you've got to make it absolutely clear to the Principal that this way of teaching only works for some, not everybody.

Suggestions for what revives failing enthusiasm:

Exciting new repertoire like Klezmer books with great backing tracks
The Edward Huws Jones series of books, some of which also have great backing CD's
Chances for them to try improvisation
Opportunities to play live at exciting events

Otherwise if they don't practise and improve, they'll just give up, which is what you don't want.

Good luck!

Violinia

Yes - the opportunity to play live in front of others is a VERY big motivator for those who have problems even motivating themselves for exams.

Noodle:



Thanks for a suggestion, now to find them is a problem It is so hard to find materials in my country, not to say in that school. But I guess I have to ask another school if they do order those books.

Patricia:



Ya, true for some students. But again, unfortunately this school doesn't hold any concerts . Not like the other school which I teach at, they have concerts periodically when all the students take turn to perform in public. Thus, no way for them to 'perform' too

Noodle:



The 16 year old attends lessons because he is forced by the parents, 'so that he will have somewhere to go' (to go for violin class instead of sleeping at home). The other adult just want to learn, but obviously has no time to squeeze in violin practising time in her busy teaching schedule.



Yes! Exams is a means to measure student's progress over here. It is solely the Principal's decision to let the students do exam. But what a thing to do, if the students just barely pass an exam, it just doesn't reflect on them being able to 'play' up to that grade!

Actually, now I am thinking of quitting teaching them, since I cannot do much to help them. But, I don't think they'll be able to find another teacher in a very short time, and surely no teachers nearby their area too. Will I be considered unresponsible if I don't teach them? and ask them to find other teachers themselves??? I have no more motivation to teach them!

The question of MOTIVATION is coming up time and time again here.

Happy Girl .. what steps do you take to promote love of music and interest in the violin?

If you are in situation where student has to learn and teacher has to teach, then the challenge is to make your lesson the place to be.

You may one day be thanked for the opportunity you have provided.

Examinations should be used as a source of appraisal. Is the examiner saying "not enough work" to your students, or are there specific issues that you can work on there.

Trust this offers a fresh angle to consider.

The examiner put as remark that they need to work on their techniques. Obviously their technique is way behind grade 5.



Sorry, I can't get what you mean by that?

The only thing I can think of is to make them work on studies, which I don't think it is going to work. The repertoire noodle mentioned is indeed hard to find here.

Happy girl I'm only a parent but I feel so sad at the position you find yourself in. There's always a way out and I think all of them have been covered by various people here.

Take some time consider the options, maybe you can work out a plan. What is clear things can't go on as they are. Get your pupils to identify some time in their hectic schedule when they are going to practise and encourage them to stick to it. Get them to keep a log of practise. Speak to the principal tell her why the students failed. Point out what you expect from the school and explain how you have advised the Student.. Do it well before the exam deadline show her the practise logs and try to decide together what action to take.

If you can get everyone to agree to this now it might make things easier long term.

I think everyone has to recognise that some people like the idea of playing more than the work required to be able to play. My youngest daughter is highly motivated and will practise anything she gets her hands on, with or without her teachers support. Some pople just don't have the motivation to push themselves.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Within suitably chosen pieces you can usually find small passages that will emphasise technique. Is the examiner being vague here, or have you isolated the particular techniques that need more attention?

I think the examiner does you a favour if he/she refers to something like a particular technical shortcoming, if it is something that you have identified yourself - explained to the student/parent, but they have failed to act. It reinforces your message to student and parent alike. Tell them again, they might take more notice this time!

I think my students are old enough to set aside a time for practice. In my opinion, when there is a will, there is a way. One will never be too busy to practice if one wants to practice Yeah, like me, I don't need people to push me to practice too, I'd only think if I 'wasted too much time practising' as complained by my parents




Actually, there are a lot of technical shortcoming for those two of my students, which occur since they started learning I think (they are passed on to me, they had few other teachers before). Their basic is not good. So, by grade 3-5, I don't know what to do, since I have to prepare them for exams for all those grades. What I did is, I just concentrate on their exam pieces all through the year, since I need to know how they played by the enrolment time! And after the enrolment date, they still don't show any sign of practising for their exam pieces, and I don't know how to concentrate on their studies/techniques at all...

I would be extremely unmotivated to practice if I only did exam pieces all year long.

Inheriting a student without technical grounding is challenging. The most common one I have seen would be the player without balanced arms, where everything sounds elephantine.

Firstly you have to develop a trust that you as teacher know what is wrong, and that you know how it can be addressed. Old pieces will have old faults well rehearsed into them!

Fresh repertoire and a concentration on pp playing, scale passages, etc would be an obvious idea for dealing with the elephants.

Well... on another note, I myself being a teacher am certainly not very motivated to practice my violin these days because...
1) I only got 113 for my violin G5 this year as compared to my 126 for G4 last year. Something is wrong and I don't know what but I feel like I'm rubbish at it right now.
2) Nothing I play seems right at the moment.
3) No matter how hard I practice my studies, I can't pass them.

Sounds good, Noodle! Why don't we start next month? Oh well... I'll see if anyone wants to take me!
Erm.. I did do much better than previously though before getting too busy with practicing the new music for the ballet exams.

But I don't know. It could have been a domino effect. Me not practicing enough, then my teacher going off the deep end because of it, then somehow I unravelled and then it has come to this.

Anyway, I'm so glad I found out about that! Or I would have continued under him for goodness knows how long.. but I don't know if I can find a teacher here. They're all so fully booked, then the good ones are not taking in students above Grade 5 because they are afraid of not doing a good job.

How about putting up a list of bad teachers in the meantime?
I dunno what I should practice if I didn't have a teacher and if I'm doing it right.

Hi there, I just had a talk with my grade 2 student's mum. Obviously she is very discouraged by her son's learning attitude. She said that he had quit many many tuition classes before, and always complained by his tuition teacher. Violin is the only class he had managed to get two certificates. We agreed to try for two more months' lessons. If there is still no sign of practising at home, we will stop the class eventually...

What a shame that he is not enjoying lessons. I think that he might well find more fun in playing another instrument. If he is able enough musically to have passed two exams then he should be able to make a good start on a new instrument. Has he thought of trying out something else? He might really enjoy bass guitar or drumkit perhaps. Just a thought.

Indeed what a shame he is not feeling grateful for being able to learn a musical instrument. But his mum told me that he chose violin as his instrument. And I think he passed grade 1 with merit because it is easy enough for him, for his age maybe. But he passed grade 2 because I made him practice his exam pieces during his lessons only. As a result, he failed his scales and sight-reading terribly. By the way, he still can't recognize all the musical notes. He is so reluctant to count and remember them!

Sounds like he needs some musical 'games' away from the violin. Like writing out a certain rhythm and asking him to tap it out, or you tapping a rhythm and getting him to write it out. Begin with simple rhythms first and work on to slightly tougher ones.
Then there's always the rhythm improvisation game where you tap a rhythm after you get a pulse going and then he follows in the next bar. Once he is comfortable and has an idea of how to invent rhythms then you do one bar, and he does the next but using his own rhythm.
Some simple sight reading might be useful for him to read notes, but with an easy rhythm first until he gets better at it. Some fun and simple pieces where you can play the piano while he plays the violin might be good.