I have taught piano for 12 years very successfully but I also have played violin from being 6 and got up to Grade 6 before it got too hard for me . I have never taught violin.

But, when the private school I teach piano in found out I play violin they asked me if I would be happy to offer violin lessons from September. I am happy to but not sure which books would be the best to use, as I have never taught violin before. Also any tips about teaching violin would come in handy as I only have ancient memories of my own lessons to go off.

The Essential String Method - Nelson

Fiddle Time Joggers - Blackwell

make a good combination. FTJ comes with a backing track CD, ESM has lots of good illustrations to help with good posture as well as using singing in a big way to help with pitch.


And I'd ask a friendly teacher to look at your playing to see if there's anything that needs attention if it's been such a long time since you last played.......some nasty habits may have appeared without you noticing.

To be honest, getting a few violin lessons for yourself would be extremely useful. It will offer an insight into where you currently stand with your own abilities and whether teaching the violin right now is a realistic proposition. If you found playing difficult at Grade 6, then you also need to check what level the school is expecting you to teach to! On the flip side of the coin, teaching complete beginners from scratch is no push over and certainly not a job for a novice violin teacher - if pupils develop bad habits at the start then this will compound into serious problems which can often become debilitating as they progress.

There will undoubtedly be times when you will have to demonstrate a particular phrase or technique, so what are your own skills like in various types of bowing, what is your shiftng like and your vibrato, is your intonation and tone good enough in general to gain you respect from those you will teach? All important questions you need to have secure answers to before embarking on teaching the violin.

Sorry if this sounds pedantic, or even negative, but I've inherited pupils from teachers for whom the violin was a fairly distant memory, and it can takes months to iron out the problems, if they can be ironed out at all.

Amanda has a point - personally I'd be scared of teaching beginner violinists as I know I wouldn't be adept enough at spotting bad habits before they became a problem. I'd much rather teach beginner piano, even, at which I am a shaky G4 standard, than beginner violin, in which I am supposedly post G6 standard.

Sorry - I should have given a fuller background. I have carried on playing casually but not to any demanding standard. 2nd fiddle in orchestras - that kind of level. It's not like I've not picked it up in 15 years. I just stopped doing exams as I found piano to be much easier and more enjoyable. I would only be teaching beginners.

Taking on board what you say about novice violin teachers not teaching beginners - what sort of bad habits should I be watching out for?

Perhaps it might be better to ask yourself what your own bad habits are in violin playing? If you can't think of any - but a professional violinist with good technique could point them out, then it really begs the question whether you should be embarking on teaching the violin at this point in time.

Classic bad habits that can become deep rooted from day one and will need a vigilent eye kept on them are: the left wrist "frying pan" hold on the violin neck, flat fingers on the strings, inability to keep the hand still and in a good shape to enable better intonation, the violin sticking straight out from under the centre of the chin, the scroll of the instrument constantly pointing towards the floor, stiff right arm in the shoulder elbow, wrist, hand and fingers - which sets off its own problems including: bowing at an angle, bowing too far over the fingerboard, bowing too close to the bridge.............and the list goes on I'm afraid.

I will reiterate that it would be best to take a few lessons and find out where your own technique stands, rather than perceiving a standard by what you play in orchestras.

It is vital that you know what correct technique really is, how to teach it and know how and when to adjust things to suit a particular pupils' physique - including offering advice on things like chin and shoulder rests. I spent two of my years at music college assisting a post-grad student who was my teaching mentor. They helped me learn how to teach the violin and even when I'd finished my studies, it was at least another five years before I felt ready to take on an absolute beginner.

Out of interest, why did you suddenly find it got difficult after Grade 6? Some people find their technique lacking and it won't allow them to play more difficult music. Technique on the violin is the absolute foundation stone to playing difficult music, without it you will be stuck below a glass ceiling.

I don't know why it got difficult. I started really well - got Honours in Trinity exams for Grades 1 and 3. Changed to a new teacher and got a merit in AB Grade 5, then just scraped through Grade 6 with about 103.

I came out of the exam room crying, convinced I'd failed (I was 12) and was shocked later to find I'd actually passed at all.

My teacher promptly put Grade 7 pieces in front of me at the next lesson which, on reflection, probably wasn't the best approach and I did try them but they were so hard I just decided I'd had enough.

I had a year out of lessons altogether and just carried on playing in the school orchestra, which I did enjoy. Then, due to family circumstances changing, I was able to start piano lessons and I whizzed through the grades, never looking back.

All the bad habits you mention are stuff that I certainly never used to do, with the possible exception of an iffy LH position, which might have been the reason why I found Grade 7 so hard.

Ah well - probably nothing a spot of practice won't put right.

I can't advise on violin teaching. But I think some interesting points have been made here, especially what AmandaL has said. I think lessons would be a good idea. Just to see where you are and I'm sure they would help with the teaching thing, if you decide to do it. Good luck

I think Amanda's advice really makes sense. Teaching beginners is very formative and can be tricky and teaching itself is a big responsibility.

The main thing I wanted to know from my own teachers when I strated to think about teaching piano was 'Will I be likely to pass on any bad habits?'

AmandaL and everybody else here who are saying you need to proceed with great caution are absolutely right.

I wouldn't have dreamt of starting out as a violin teacher without making absolutely sure I knew what I was doing, and I'm speaking as someone for whom violin has always been the greatest priority in my life; also as someone who has always been put into first violin in any orchestra I've joined, not second!

When people started asking me to teach their children I immediately went to the best violin teacher in my area for a series of lessons in how to teach violin, as I had only previously taught a few adults and considered teaching child beginners to be a massive and somehow greater responsibility.

First of all she confirmed that my own technique was definitely good enough for me to teach others.

She then gave me all sorts of ideas re teaching correct posture, bow hold etc etc, and recommended that I took the Associated Board's CTABRSM course, which I eventually did - and learnt loads more there too. we had a 'violin mentor' who spent many sessions with us (a small group of 4) studying all the finer points of violin teaching, and these were followed by sessions where she observed our teaching in our own homes or at school and evaluated our performance. We aslo had to produce a video of our teaching for evaluation by the mentor and also by the other students, as well as write several long assignments on teaching.

I think it would be irresponsible to just start teaching violin using only books as a guide and without getting some outside advice from an expert. I noticed you said you would 'only be teaching beginners' - this made me bristle a bit I'm afraid! Teaching beginners the violin and getting it right is really quite difficult and you need a game plan and quite detailed knowledge for every single thing that can go wrong, and believe me things can go wrong even with the pupils of the top teachers in the land!

There are so many poorly taught child violinists around - I know this from personal experience and am always having to sort them out. Two friends of mine who now have diplomas had been taught such bad technique that their professors decided to completely 'strip them down' and start them all over again, at immense financial and personal cost. I'm not saying that any of your future violin pupils are necessarily going to seek diplomas at some point, just trying to illustrate how crucial it is to get it right in the early stages.

The fact that you only got 103 at Grade 6 and found Grade 7 too difficult would give me cause for concern, as well as your admission that you have some left hand problems but would see those as easy to sort out 'with a bit of practice'. A bit of practice is not the way to sort out left hand probs - you need to see someone!!!

So please do go and get some serious help and advice before starting out!!!

Violinia

Some very harsh comments here!

If an experienced piano teacher feels happy to teach violin and the employer is happy to employ her then I think there is no problem. She knows not to do any harm!

My paper qualifications when I started teaching were Grade 4 viola....and a Grade 7 piano. My actual violin playing was quite a lot more advanced than this implies but still not Grade 8 level.

But I knew how to teach small kids so they enjoyed learning. I learned on the job by attending workshops, watching other teachers teach and then taking the CT ABRSM course. I'm still learning. I'm still not a fabulous violinist. But my pupils have gone on to Chethams, to JRNCM, have led NCO orchestras, played in Music for Youth finals.......plus countless other ordinary kids that I teach are playing well and loving it.

At conservatoire level, which applies to very few anyway, almost everyone I know has had their technique taken apart and put together again. It need not be a negative thing!

Harsh? No,just realistic and cautionary.

I just don't think someone who only managed to scrape a Grade 6 is ready to teach violin to beginners without some further training. Of course she wouldn't intend to do any harm - no violin teacher ever does - so how come the legions of poorly taught violinists in schools up and down the land? No dount someone with the best of intentions taught them.

Nobody should be cavalier about this - poor violin teaching is so very hard to rectify so why shouldn't every teacher pull out all the stops and get it right from the start?

Violinia

I think that there have been some wise words about this. I would explain to the school that although you play the violin you have not taught it and suggest that they look for a teacher with more experience. Then find yourself a really good teacher and get some decent lessons yourself. See how it goes. You might well find that before long you will feel better equipped to offer violin lessons. I know just how few recorder teachers there are in my area who acyually know what they are doing. There are quite a few self-taught ones and their bad teaching methods produce some very poor results. I have had several pupils who have been keen to do some grade exams, but have to practically start from scratch again after some poor tuition. When I left my old teaching job at a local school the head suggested asking a teacher who had been a clarinet player at school years before if she would like to continue with the recorder lessons! But she asked a new teacher if she could "hold a tune" so that she could take over my choirs too! I don't mean to be critical, but do be aware of the problems.

I am not a teacher but could not resist joining in on this thread. I think you did well to pass Grade 6 violin at all if you were only 12 at the time. It sounds however if the school is trying to cut their costs, by not employing an actual violinist to teach the children. Are they going to appreciate you anyway, if that is their attitude? I have grade 8 cello, but would not feel comfortable teaching, don't think I would be secure rhymically. I think a professional musician, would not necessarily under a childs requirements in learning anymore than any one else, I found my first cello teacher years ago a bit unreal, but they do know how to make lovely sounds and understand the technique. I suppose good teaching is a question of balance then.
Interesting reading for the non teacher.

Harsh? No,just realistic and cautionary.

I just don't think someone who only managed to scrape a Grade 6 is ready to teach violin to beginners without some further training. Of course she wouldn't intend to do any harm - no violin teacher ever does - so how come the legions of poorly taught violinists in schools up and down the land? No dount someone with the best of intentions taught them.

At least SOME of those poorly taught violinists must be being taught by teachers with really good paper qualifications though....I think that being able to teach well (which can be both instinctive and learned) is more important than actual playing ability, clearly proficiency is preferable and self awareness critical!

Bigger question.......WHY don't more violin teachers care to teach good posture?

A lot of these poorly taught students have been taught in groups in broom cupboards. The kids may have had to quickly change out of their games kit and cross the school to get to their lesson; then there are instruments to be removed from cases, bows to be tightened, rosin to be applied, books to be found - so by the time the lesson begins it's often less than half an hour.

The well-trained teachers can try all they like to teach good posture but under those circumstances....

A conservatoire-trained friend of mine who also teaches in a top conservatoire, has a top violin professor teach his own child for an hour a week on her own. He has told me his daughter's posture deteriorates from time to time and has to be sorted out again! If it isn't easy to instil good posture under those (frankly ideal) circumstances, then surely any conscientious violin teacher will make sure they're at the very least properly trained before they start the job in far less ideal circumstances.

I've found my old notebook from my learning days and my teacher kept writing 'Hand! Mousehole!' over and over again. Fortunately my mother was available to remind me at home when I practised - as well as make sure I practised daily. How many school-based students have parents at home who understand the violin and can help in that way?

The vast majority of violin teachers in schools have at least Grade 8 plus a music degree, or a teaching/performance diploma, or a high standard on the violin plus a vast amount of performance and teaching experience. If it's challenging for them to teach violin to a good standard in short group lessons in broom cupboards then how much more challenging would it be for someone without any of the above in terms of training and experience.

The fact that you're even considering accepting the offer is indicative that you haven't really grasped what it takes to teach the violin to beginners.

Violinia

I agree with a lot of the comments on this topic.
As a returning adult violinist, my posture was terrible and very hard to correct.

My teacher is a professional violinist (leader of a well known orchetsra) and he's had a job ironing out my problems !

I firstly had to get rid of the LH "frying pan", loosen up my wrist, and learn how to hold my bow properly.

Very much like starting all over again. Luckily, my fingers hadn't forgot where they were going and my sight reading is suprisingly brilliant ! (more than I can say for piano)
Nevertheless, it's took me the best part of 8 months to stop these habbits which do creep up now again.

I was taught at school from the age of 7 right through. Pretty much "in a broom cupboard" so there was never any time for the basics of holding a violin.

It is so important to get it right from the outset or you end up trying to get rid of bad habbits for quite a long time.

Fiona

Too true: I had a teacher for only a year at school (flute) who actually taught me, as good technique, habits which I then had to break and which every teacher or flautist I have described them to since has found quite unbelievable! And this was a teacher employed by the music service

I'm a sucker for correct technique - ask Katyjay! It may feel uncomfortable in the early stages of learning, but, using a soft approach and letting a pupil get away with a comfortable but incorrect technique will cause huge problems in the long run. Getting it right and keeping it that way from day one will allow quicker progress. Correct tehnique is also the ONLY key to advanced playing - not just difficult music as in its speed or use of a high register, but technical difficulty with bowing, shifting and sometimes dowright awkward string crossings. Very few non-professional violinists can perform spiccato or ricochet bowing properly or indeed consistently or continuously - I've seen all sorts of dreadful variations though - simply because they are advanced techniques that not only require more than five minutes practice, but a level of training beyond that of grades 1 and 8.

However, even in the grade exams there will be pieces which require bowing technique of more than simple detache. Ok, so the examiner will not be expecting a professional execution of the technique from the candidate, but if the teacher of the pupil has little knowledge of these techniques, then how are they going to teach someone else to execute the same?

It would be much like someone who hasn't quite passed their driving test trying to teach someone else to drive - they only have very novice skills themselves, no training and no firm foundation to work with.

I can only agree with the comments left by noodle, Amanda and others. If I were you, I'd think very hard before teaching violin - your comment 'before it got too hard for me' worries me. I'd concentrate on your piano tuition, which you're happy with and doing well at - and I'd get your violining up to a higher standard before considering teaching it. You may have read about my plans to take up the violin or viola as a grade 1 challenge - looking at your first paragraph would make me, I'm afraid, very apprehensive about using your services as a violin teacher. Think about it this way - if someone was to offer you, say, flute lessons on the pretext that they got to grade 5 and no further because it was too hard for them, would you be happy with employing them as a teacher? I'd be surprised if you were.

Whatever decision you make Julie, hope all goes well for you.