Temptress!

Have you had lessons on improv, Joy, just worked it out alone, used a book...?

No lessons, but lots of research... I have the 'Jazz Piano from Scratch', so that is an excellent source for any instrument really. I just decided to give it a go one day and made notes on the whole book, learning as I went along. Also, got the CDs and basically listented to what sounds right to a certain extent. Also, I have looked online, just general searches, for jazz piano to see what tips I can pick up, but basically the 'Scratch' book definitely says a lot!

Doing the grades has helped me bit by bit, trying more complex chords as I've gone along for each grade. Learning the jazz scales are extremely helpful too. I've found that keeping the improv to a similar style to the piece is often challenging but worth it in the end. In my last exam though the examiner said my improv section could have been a bit closer linked to the overall style of the piece, but other than that the comments have been ok!

Also, Christopher Norton's 'The Easiset Way to Improvise' is a good book which takes you through some exercises with a CD. Very useful! And 'Jazzology' is worth a look too, it's a book all about Jazz theory!!! I love it!

I'll have to get back to you on that one - give me a week or two - I'll probably end up focusing on the slowest ones with chords I know well for the time being.

There's quite a range of difficulty within the Grade One - in terms of potential creative choice - some pieces have a two chords to a solo bar with the base note given - ( & here I think being a keyboard player (rather than "piano" - though I play it on a piano) gives a head start ) - yet when you look at the head theme you realise that not many notes are going to be needed in a bar any way and they've already given you one of them if you play the base where required... or is that just a suggestion... or maybe it's for any groupies you bring along...

The first thing I noticed though was in the example solo bars - in the bit of suggested improvisation just to get you started (invent your own later) - the notes given don't always belong to the chord required. e.g in Centrepiece the first solo bar is D7 with c natural, d and f natural as a suggested start..... which would make it Dm7 to me. Perhaps this is a Jazz Scale thing I don't know about?

None of this Andante / Allegro though - these pieces are to be played "Mysteriously" or "Relaxed and Solid" .....mmmmmm....... "Nice"

Hello Jazz enthusiasts!

Just wanted to apologise about the delay in sending out the information packs. We are going to send them out as soon as possible but we are just having a couple more things printed which have been delayed slightly. We don't want to send them out with anything missing, so hope that you will be patient with us!

Thanks!

Thanks for the update!

It's possible (probable?) that the piece you are looking at is a Blues. There are lots of variations on blues chord progressions and my knowledge only scratches the surface but in it's simplest form the first 4 bars will be a dominant chord, such as D7 which will move up a fourth (to G7) in bar 5, very often the G7 will be in bar 2 as well. This would then be termed "Blues in D". Although the D7 has the major third F#, the D blues scale has the minor third F (which becomes the dominant seventh over the G7 chord). Either will sound right over the D7 chord - using F# on the D7 chord and the F natural on the G7 is a a sign that you're "playing the changes" rather than just using a blues scale throughout.

In one of the jazz workshops I used to go to we did a lot of work on Blues progressions and the tutor was very keen on moving us away from just using the blues scale, if I was a bit lazy with it I'd get "OK Tsax now play it again and can we have some major thirds this time please"

People keep saying so - it ain't cheap though if I remember right? I wonder if my piano teacher has it...


Yes, I've been doing that


I'll check them out - when I have more money!


Definitely... though similarly I think it would be possible to do a reasonably effective but simple improv on most of them, or to do something more complex.

Angharad, thanks for letting us know, I'll be patient!


When that goes through my head () it'll be useful knowledge - thanks TSax

When I bought the 'Jazz from Scratch' book it was around £19-20 I think. But it is definitely worth the money, so worth saving for! Or borrow off your teacher.....

Glad to hear that the packs will be on their way soon ...

In the meantime I have a couple of books for violin which are useful and some jazz studies too.

I guess the litmus test will be taking the exam and seeing how I get on. Looking through the pieces in the book, I could probably take it 3 times with different sets of music that I like but I guess that'd be a bit of an expensive way of getting feedback!

After a bit of musing, and just to be as confusing as possible, it may be better to think of the F natural as a sharp 9 rather than a minor third. End result is you can still play either the F natural of the F sharp over the D7 chord though!

Thank for giving this more thought. I paniced a bit when I first saw it - (I like to understand things) - and I didn't see the footnote (sorry) - it says..

"The chord sequence, phrasing and use of flat 3rds against seventh chords make this tune a blues, despite its unusually happy and upbeat mood."

I've been experimenting with the same ideas in the Solo and keep coming up with a Middle Eastern / North African sound. Perhaps I'm overdoing it.

My big idea for Solo training is to write out all the notes which belong to each chord and then practice recalling them randomly with an ear to the rhythm of the Head -( though these chords seem way beyond what I had expected for Grade One) - I hope that through this approach I might one day be spontaeous (?).

There are various exercises you can do to help instil the feeling of the changes in you're playng. These include

1. Arpeggiating the chords, if you've got one chord per bar play 1 3 5 7 1 7 5 3 as quavers (swung if appropriate). For 2 chords per bar use 1 3 5 7; 1 3 5 7

2. Do it again starting on the 3rd, then the 5th then the 7th etc

3. Construct a solo just using chord tones

4. Now you know the changes inside out play a solo being aware of them but not sticking rigidly to them, include other scale notes, passing notes etc

I'm really lucky to have great teachers, both for sax and for jazz who live, work and breathe this stuff and do a great job of keeping me on track. It's really worth trying to find somewhere where you can play with other people and learn it "live" rather than from books.

I'm not sure I'm sufficiently into Jazz to want to take further grades - but I'd like to do Grade One - as a sort of challenge and because it makes use of all these chords I carry round in my head.

It really isn't a case of anyone who's ready for the ordinary Grade One to just do this as well though - it's a very different sort of knowledge.

I know what you mean, but from the other perspective - I've done bits and pieces of classical saxophone stuff and really enjoyed some classical saxophone quartet work I had the opportunity of trying, but there just aren't enough hours in the day and with a day job to do, mortgage to pay etc you've got to put your efforts in the area you're passionate about, which for me is jazz.

Which piece is it you're looking at, sneekymum? I recognise the comment from below it but I don't remember which one it is.

I agree it's a totally different ballgame from classical, though I like it and would like, one day, to progress through all the current jazz grades. I need to find some time to try and practice and learn more though, and even G1 will be a challenge in a lot of ways despite me being well beyond that instrumentally and classically.

I'd love to learn more "live", but for me energy and money (and transport...) are the retarding factors. The workshop with Violinia a year ago was brilliant and I'd be totally lost in the dark otherwise.

The flat thirds against sevenths is in Centrepiece.

I'm working on Centrepiece, Blue Moon and Mo'Better Blues - (ie. one from each section) - not particularly to use for the exam but as an exploration of why they are in the different groups in the first place - I'm just practicing playing them through with chord based arpeggios - the repeat of the head with variation is easy if you don't look at the music.

A good way for me to start is just to write out the chords to practice. I'm cheating at the moment and doing it all on the piano as I know the chords to look at but would have to think of the notes on the flute - once I get the sound of them in my head I'll move over to the flute and not need to worry about what each note is called.

I really like Mo' Better Blues

I have been playing all of them - I could definitely take the exam 2 or 3 times with different sets of pieces and still enjoy them all!

I don't have a problem improvising on the flute - it's by far my strongest instrument. I don't have a great idea if what I am doing is good improv or not. Mostly it sounds OK, I think... only way to find out is I guess to do the exam.

I love the repeat of the head: I can usually sound quite convincing if I'm playing around over a tune that's already there!

Waw! Managed to get hold of the Grade 1 Jazz Flute Book at last. It looks great. Will be delving into it later.

hillyb

Oooh excellent. Look forward to hearing how you get on

We might be heading for a Grade One (any instrument) Jazz Challenge.

Grade 1 challenge sounds good! I've got the scales and quick study/aural test books now and am ordering the pieces book soon, I am so looking forward to the pieces. Slightly addictive this is...

OT here, but something I'm curious about - joyjoy, as an accomplished classical pianist have you found that delving into the jazz side of things has altered the way you approach / interpret / play classical piano?

I've no pre-conceived ideas here, I played classical clarinet as a child and now play almost exclusively jazz saxophone, but with a long enough break between the two that I've no idea whether the jazz is having an influence or whether the differences are down to the different instrument and greater musical maturity. I feel that I now have a better sense of pulse, more developed aural skills (although those were very bad at school and could still do with a lot of improvement) and a greater tendency when reading music to think of it as a series of intervals or the degree of a scale rather than note names. I've recently started playing about a bit with a keyboard for the first time and with no prior experience of reading bass clef - I know the notes in theory but not fluently. I find that I'm tending to read it as "starts on G, down a third, up the scale with a major 7th" etc. I have no idea whether this will end up being a problem or not.

I wouldn't say it's having much of an influence, I just love playing both jazz and classical. However, saying that, I have noticed that I do tend to add little embellishments, whether it be changing the LH arrangements or a few extra notes here and there. This is only sometimes when I am playing, I noticed it today whilst I was playing through some pieces, I fiddled around with the LH, and kind of went with what I felt was good. Obviously I wouldn't do it in a classical piano exam, but it's definately noticable in some of my playing. So maybe the idea of improvising comes through, but I'm sure a lot of people often do that anyway when playing, so it's not a new idea!

I've just bought my daughter the Grade 1 Jazz flute. Gave it to her today and she really liked it.
Of course at the moment she is just improvising along to the CD with no idea whether she is doing it right or wrong and she's not that much bothered. She did a bit of improvisation in her old Flute group before she went up.

She always really likes the Jazzy pieces on the classical syllabus. Now I've tested her reaction I'm going to but her some of the books people have been suggesting for Christmas. She's got exams and stuff up to the beginning of December and this is something she can enjoy doing over the next holiday. It just makes a nice change to the stuff she's playing at the moment on Flute.

I've ordered my jazz flute pieces but the book still hasn't come in at the music shop yet - been waiting ages

Bought ours on line from Music Exchange, it took less that 48 hours to arrive.

Yeah, I was going to order it online but thought I'd give the business to my local music shop, hopefully won't be long now!

Oh Music Exchange is our local music shop. I always bought from the shop in Manchester until it closed down last year now they are sent from the Warehouse in Manchester.

my daughter has just blagged herself some Jazz lesson from one of the students next door! She really likes the book.

Ooopps I thought that you meant an online shop... That's really good about your daughter getting a lesson I think jazz flute is going to take off big time!

Right I'm doing things back to front as usual! I've just got some Jazz books for my daughter.

Rae Jazz Zone which I'm going to give her now.

Rae Progressive Jazz Studies and Easy Jazz Studies and Jazz Scale Studies
Gordon Ultimate Jazz Riffs These are going to Father Christmas

All the books are for Flute. Can anyone say wheter I'm on the right track for Jazz Flute grades with these books. If you've got any other suggestions then I'll see how far Santa's cash will streach (well my husbands card). The student next door is really keen to help, so she is very lucky!

I've done this to give her inspiration afet the difficult time she's had with her Flute Teacher and because we are getting her the 311 too. She's normally much more difficult to buy for than her sister... not this year!

Thanks

Can I suggest holding it on the books but adding a CD?

For jazz flute I'd recommend "Put the Cat Out" by Grooveyard, available form www.jazzcds.co.uk - you can hear samples on Gareth Lockranes webpage www.garethlockrane.com

I've been to a couple of jazz courses tutored by Martin Hathaway - jazz professor at Guildhall. One of the things he's always saying is "Stop buying books, you're not going to learn from books, everything you need to know is in the recordings, do more listening". The further I get down this road the more I realise how right he is, although as someone with quite a lot of books at home I think it's possible you might have to get through the buying books stage before you realise it might not be the best way. I'm trying to think of an analogy but the best one I can come up with is going through the drinking yourself stupid / horrible hangover stage before working out how to drink responsibly.

Thanks I'll look into the CD as an addition. My daughter is only 11 and used to learning through books so it seemed a natural way to begin. I do take your point about listening and I'll certainly encourage this. I think it's really important to build up a set of skills and anything that improves musicianship is a bonus.

I think most of us are used to learning from books and see that as the route into learning. One of the initially really uncomfortable and ultimately really liberating things about learning jazz is getting rid of the dots. A group I was playing in did a little spot at an informal concert - going on stage and moving all the music stands out of the way because we didn't need them was a really nice feeling.

Ok two more questions, am I right in thinking that the first opportunity to take the Jazz exams is the Spring session? Also if you get Grade 5 Jazz Flute does that mean you can move on to Grade 6 Concert Flute without Grade 5 Theory?

My daughter is really enjoying playing the Jazz pieces, and the student next door enjoys doing them with her, didn't think this would be the outcome!

Hi all

I already have some very patchy basic jazz knowledge with the flute from a workshop and have been working through a step by step jazz piano book. (Ive got classical grade 3 flute).

Can anyone tell me if the jazz flute grade books are self explanatory, in otherwords, can I work my way through them, would they help clarify stuff from the workshop that bewildered me ?

Also what grade would be best to go in at?

Thanks for any advice

Yes and yes.


They don't explain how to play jazz - they give you the basic melodies, the chords, and guide tones for the improvisatory bits. You'd do well to work through some stuff on improv on the flute as well as doing it on the piano.

I'd recommend going in at grade 1 - the tunes are great, really fun to play, and it's not too hard (the improv sections aren't too long) but at the same time there's actually great scope for playing around and having fun once you've gained confidence. IMO you'd learn more that way than jumping in at a higher grade and maybe not being sure what you're doing.

Sorry that's probably not much help

It seems like a lot of students who want to side step the grade 5 theory exam, look at the grade 5 jazz exam as an easy alternative. Well i can assure it is not, i recognise many students want to move on to grade 6-8 and don't care for the theory exam but the grade 5 jazz exam is probably harder than the grade 5 theory exam. Jazz has its own theory and related skills so that you can't just expect to start straight from grade 5 and know the necessary requirements. I recall in the last exam session a girl decided to take the Grade 5 jazz piano exam and had actually written out all the solos i don't know if she passed or not but i'm guessing she was in for a shock when the examiner did the jazz aural tests.

Students should take the jazz exams because they enjoy jazz and use them as one aid to improving their jazz skills.

My daughter is still working on theory she's at the end of the grade 3 book and I won't be encouraging her to drop theory at all. I just wanted to know if I was right in how I understood things. Infact she's not even taken Grade 5 Flute yet so I'm fully expecting that she will have the Theory before Grade 6.

At the moment she's only working on the Grade 1 Jazz, so I doubt that she will have Grade 5 when she's ready to move to Grade 6 Classical. She wants to get as far as she can before the Students move from next door as one of them does alot of Jazz Sax (knows what he's doing) and he's helping her.

I got my jazz demo pack today, will look at it later

I did too.

Me too although there's not much in there that wasn't on the web site (apart from a couple of large posters, and some stickers) - no sample CD - apparently there is a problem with licencing regulations relating to the content, so they will be sent out later when it's sorted out

Hazel

I got mine too but apparently the actual jazz flute cd is on it's way - the pack contains general syllabus stuff, not just specific to flute, but all instruments - it's very interesting.

I thought the pack was a little disappointing in a way. I suppose I was expecting it to contain more information about working towards the Jazz exams, recommendations on methods/tutors and perhaps some examples of expected standards (maybe that's what the CD is about).

I am a bit concerned that my daughter is finding it too easy, and can't help think she is missing something, but I've no idea what. She wants to take Grade 1 in spring and has a whole army of people to advise her, I just hope one of them knows what they are doing!

Perhaps if they had included a couple of pieces and recordings with sample improvisation (not the actual grade pieces) then this might have given us a better idea of what is expected.

Yeah, I can see where you are coming from. It would be nice to have some reccommendations, tutors etc. I know for piano, the 'Jazz Piano from Scratch' is an essential book for progressing in jazz piano. It's a shame they don't have one for the other instruments too. Or perhaps a general one would be good. Although saying that, the piano one is certainly worth a look.... Lays out a lot of essential knowledge for jazz.

It's on the christmas list my eldest fancies trying Jazz piano, though I suspect she's being unrealistic, her gereral Piano skills are not strong enough.

sorry, no idea

Well, I gave up waiting for the sample CD, and ordered the grade 1 flute syllabus (which comes with a CD), and also the scales and aural / sight reading books.

Had a listen to the CD - sounds OK, perhaps not the sort of thing I'd listen to for pleasure (they're obviously grade one pieces, maybe the higher grades have more exciting tunes) but they're well produced. The kids' verdict was that they sounded "Groooooooooovy"

Not had chance to really play through them though...

The scales book is scary, but then scales have always been a bit of a bete noire with me anyway

Hazel

The grade cds have example improvs for the grade pieces.