I agree with Oboemeister this is indeed an interesting topic, and from the quality of responses, it is clear here that people here have the ability to reason and study subjects in depth.

The trouble is that the current exam system does not allow you to really prove your worth. Everytime you here that the number of people with A grades has gone up, it means that Univesities have to rely on the Interview to see if you will fit in.

For example, my husband applied to Cambridge to Read Natural Sciences. He did not get in due to his interview. Instead he studied at Nottingham got a First in Physics, completed a PhD and then worked at Cambridge as a Research Assistant. Does he regret what he did? No. You look at his A and S level Grades and they are sickenly excellent.

I actually feel sorry for lifes high achievers now that A grades are awarded so freely. You do not have the opportunity to demonstrate what makes you special. Its is much harder for you to demonstrate your true ability than it was in 1987 when I took my A Levels.

Just looked in on this thread, I was attracted by the steam rising from my monitor...

one thing not mentioned (I think) is that so much of this exam system stuff and University entrance business has become totally POLITICAL.
When the government announces that the target is to get 50% or more of youngsters into University education the whole thing starts to fall apart. It is now more important to meet the target than to be concerned with teaching/learning and education.
The simplest way to meet a target is to lower the entry level.

Don't get me wrong, I am not decrying what all of you and many others have achieved. No.

And as to exams being easier - in some parts that may be true, but they are also very different For example GCSE French (which I taught for some years) is very different from 'O' level or even Common Entrance taken at 13! Very different - if you can wave your hands and ask for a coffee, recognise a sign that says "toilettes" and catch some words on a tape you are ok. But you don't have to put a sentence together using present tense then change it to the past tense or to the future.

On the other hand some of the things in subjects like Maths and Science never used to be looked at before 'A' level. This is partly because the theorists want primary school children to cover certain topics, even though their reading and writing and spelling are still a bit "wobbly"

Places like Cambridge have to try to take the very best students in order to maintain high standards and a worldwide reputation. After all, the AB still believes in 'fail'. If, like so many of you on the Forums, you have achieved Grade 6, 7 ,8 then it is well known that you have attained a very very good standard on your instrument/singing/theory. There's no idea that at least 50/60/70% of entrants should get Distinctions, you have to work for them, don't you?

Where is it all going wrong when Universities think of extending degree courses in order that students should learn to write essays and assignments (even spell) properly before starting the specialised study?

I've seen other 'rants' on here, and this is mine. Going to the library now to hand in a miniature score... back later to take the flak

I agree completly. I may get good grades, but it won't feel like I personally have achieved anything because I find them easy. If I never struggle, how can I know what level I'm at? Also, I don't want to know I'm in the top X percent, I want to know I have acheived a set standard that does not change.

But surely if students had definite career aims then they'd research them and find out what they needed to do. I had very little careers advice from secondary school but I researched what I needed to do. It just seems so unfair to not admit pupils from schools with a reputation of bad teaching as this is penalising students for something which they have no control over. Also, just because someone has had bad teaching, it doesn't mean that they're not bright - I had a crappy Humanities teacher but still managed to get an A* for it and full marks in the coursework.



I agree with you. I'm taking 5 challenging academic subjects for AS level this year (French, Spanish, Maths, Music and Modern History) because I want to be challenged and I'm interested in those subjects. I also play three instruments, participate in orchestra and choir, volunteer in a charity shop and I've got my Bronze Duke of Edinburgh and yet my sixth form college are forcing me to do AS general studies, key skills IT and a compulsory extracurricular activity (I chose debating). Madness....

I was joking Rainbow, pointing out how it's ridiculous that factors beyond the student's control affect their university applications so much. Students can have definite career aims and get it wrong. If that wasn't true, Cambridge and LSE simply would not have these lists.



You are mad Good for you. At least since you are doing 6 A levels you can afford to drop/not do so well in half of them and still get into Oxbridge

Sorry, I'm not very good at judging sarcasm/humour on the net!



I agree but I can always drop one of the AS levels after the first few weeks if I can't cope with the workload. Unfortunately, half the college teachers seem to know of my results (I was in the local rag) so there's probably going to be even more pressure than at GCSE level.

Wow!! and good luck to you Rainbow.
And I expect the reason the College wants you to do more is to get up the league tables. A case of the target being more important than the student?

Not necessarily, ok, they will expect you do well, but won't pressure from you at the start, don't be worried if you find AS hard to start off with, I know I did in History!

I was the one who wanted to do the 5 AS levels, college wanted me to do the others. Apparently General Studies can help secure a uni place if you miss an offer (personally, I'd rather spend the time studying my main subjects to ensure that I don't miss an offer), IT key skills is needed to prove that I know how to use a computer and the compulsory extracurricular activity is needed for my CV (apparently grade 5 viola and theory exam passes, piano, singing, orchestra, choir, charity shop and Bronze D of E isn't enough obviously)

No, obviously not enough - they want to know what you do in your spare time!!
Thumb twiddling not your strong point??

Couldn't agree more. And to be honest, the people who could get 4 As in real subjects, could get an A in G.S., but the sheer pointlessness of the subject meant many people deliberately screwed it up for fun.

It's all about league tables, and G.S. is an easy subject to move you up them.


Well that's wrong. Wouldn't help a bit at the unis you'd apply to.

Lol, I just like all the activities.


Am so tempted to do that and just make a mockery of it, except that I'm a perfectionistic over achiever.



That's what I thought...... am dying to point this out to parents/college who want me on the Oxbridge programme.

Can't believe I'm moaning about college and it hasn't even started yet....

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Computer problems!

General Studies can help you secure a uni place, what piffle! Most don't accept it. IT key skills (level 2) anyway, is nonsense, and so picky.

Thanks Nicki, that makes me feel so much better...........

Sorry! I didn't mean to upset you

You'll find GS not a problem, it's just that most of the top unis don't accept it. You'll find KS easy too.

It's just they didn't really stimulate me, and I found them boring, and would rather did proper work in them.

*feels bad*

Sorry, it's just that I hate picky, boring subjects (GCSE science coursework springs to mind) and it just seems so mad to be forced to do all of this. I obviously know how to use a computer, judging by the amount of time I spend online.

Go to 6th form office, and explain you're doing 5 A Levels, and can you skip them. Tell them your academic record and see what they say.

KS level 2, the "hardest" thing was sending an email...

My dad is a senior tutor at the sixth form college I'm going to and I've just asked him about keyskills and General Studies. Apparently, keyskills is a national requirement and that someone who's doing 5 AS levels should be able to cope with keyskills and General Studies. He also says that most unis accept General Studies (funny that, he was getting all excited about Cambridge last week and they don't accept general studies). He also says that he's sick of discussing it and that I'm in the wrong and that I can take it up with college but that it probably won't change anything.

It's really fun though. We played a game where you had to get as many band names into an essay as possible without being too obvious. And for an added bonus, it ######s up the league tables which is the whole reason they do it in the first place.


Nah, IIRC it's about 10%. And they're blates all old polytechnics.

I am so going to try that. Very annoyed. I can understand that I'm expected to do things (more so because my dad works there - the whole Caesar's wife should be beyond reproach thing) but to be told that I'm in the wrong for not wanting to do something so I can spend more time on my academic subjects - that is what really annoys me!

you might finish up having an interview with him to discuss it all over again

Yeah, the system sucks. Stick it to the man. Or just disrupt all the 'lessons'. S'how I endured a whole year.

Ideas? I'm not generally the disruptive kind and I love subtlety.


Lovely - I bet that's what would happen.

Actually...I got told KS was a national requirement too. In our GS lessons, not many people went after the first week, I even didn't go to a couple. They don't reflect your general knowledge at all...people who get straight As, can easily do badly in GS, and poorer candidates often manage top grades in it. Hope you get it sorted out, I can imagine why you're annoyed. Hope I didn't upset you

Nah, you didn't, don't worry!

Will have to find 'excuses' for not going to lessons.

In one GS lesson we had someone nick the fuse out of the OHP, which resulted in the teacher leaving (for 20 minutes) to try and find someone to fix it. By which point, he'd put the fuse back in, the other teacher came in, presssed the power switch, and it worked .

You don't need excuses just: "I had something better to do with my time"

Right...better get on with essay since school is tomorrow.

Classic!

leaving a class for 20 mins!!! what a waste of your time. Don't blame the 'someone' who took the fuse.. but a teacher to walk out to find someone to fix it. Omg what are we coming to. Time he learnt to cope and taught you something without the OHP.
Course I suppose H&S wouldn't allow him to work out the problem for himself. How sad sad sad.

Hehe, yay for schools which don't force you to do silly subjects.

Rainbow, as long as you don't get stressed (remember GCSEs? ) you will be absolutely FINE this year. Honest. Just don't put any work into GS, it seems to be a great stress-busting lesson.


I'm still unsure about my A level choices so you're one up on me. My mum wants me to take RS because I did so well in GCSE but I don't want to be doing DipABRSM, 4 AS levels and an A2 at the same time as starting a new school, in addition to filling my scholarship conditions and being required to practice for 4 hours a day. Bah.

Ok then, just hope I get put with my friends.




If you want a musical career (ie, music college/uni) why bother because you'll have the 3 A2s and 1AS by the end of 6th form, which is what they want. If you want to study something else, then it might be beneficial to study RS.

Wow! That is brilliant! I can't believe I've never thought of anything like that!

*runs off to plot all kinds of never-before-imagined chaos for next term...*

Even in terms of what children are expected to be able to do at the very start of primary school things have changed: I have a friend who teaches tinies at pre-school and they are learning stuff we were taught in our first couple of years of "real" school.


That's completely insane


Sounds like it


If I said what I thought of that you'd just get a line of hashes so I might as well cut out the middle man, what a load of ###############################################


Yes, it ain't going to help with offers except at unis you would not touch with a barge pole

How about just taking French/History/etc books into your GS lessons?


Has to be worth a try.


But why the heck should you HAVE to "cope" with 6 AS levels and the stupid keyskills course when you could be doing something far more productive with your time??!


Not surprised. I am really angry on your behalf, RB - that's just so utterly ridiculous.

I hated it, but that was because I had no friends in it, and it just frustrated me no end (especially Tuesday last lesson). I did briefly consider doing it for A2, but couldn't face it!

Standing-up game - stay standing as long as possible after the lesson had started. Sitting-down game - the reverse at the end of the lesson. See who can 'drop' their pen the furthest from where they're sitting and then go up and get it. Play 'bingo' with common catchphrases of the teacher. Play cards/chess/ludo at the back. Refuse to answer any questions from the teacher in anything more than a word. Water pistols at end of term (or half-term, or week - depends how bored you are).

The new one which I've got in mind for this year is to assign odd/interesting facts to people in advance (like "Babies' eyes do not produce tears until the baby is approximately six to eight weeks old" which I just got off the Internet). Then see who's the first to manage to slip it into a conversation with the teacher. I'll see how it goes after I go back...

And YAP - great idea. If the opportunity ever presents itself, I might try it.

It was perhaps second to someone telling the new teacher that although their name was <something>, they appeared as such on the register, and wrote that on their books, they in fact preferred to be called 'Edmund'. Had the teacher going for 6 months .

[quote name='sarah-flute' date='Aug 31 2006, 06:56 PM' post='385972'][quote]

Didn't want to quote everything you said there Sarah, but it's lovely to see so much common sense spoken/written.
I sometimes ask myself where Common Sense has gone, and now I know the answer to the question! Good chunks of it in Insomniaville!

thanks

As for causing classroom chaos, wait until someone has to go into the cupboard for a new book, lock them in and hide the keys. Wait until the teacher leaves to get the caretaker to let them in, then put the keys back in the lock! Or, even batter, wait until the teacher goes into the cupboard......... If I really want to annoy a teacher (usually when they've been rather narrow-minded) I just hand in work in spanish or german, which I guess goes to show just how much time I have on my hands!

A student has hidden in a cupboard before in one of my lessons - it was quite funny. Teacher didn't notice for a good 5 minutes, until the trapped student started knocking on the door because he couldn't get out...

I'd actually have 4 A2s by the end, and that's my point, problem being if I don't do music then I'm stuck they include Music and MusTech! I want to do music, my parents expect me to do music, everyone expects me to do music, but I'm still not sure if I should.
So, you see, I'm a bit stuck.

My parents expected me to study either Mathematics or Natural Sciences... Oh how wrong they were! I would have made a decent Chemist but the quality of teaching I received at school meant that the option of studying Chemistry At A Level would not have been a good idea.

Work out what you really want to study and go with what you want to do. I knew I wanted to study music so went for it!

Thanks

I agree!

Thanks for all the advice everyone and sorry for the moaning, I was in such a bad mood yesterday though. I normally get on pretty well with my parents and so I informed them last night that I might have to go to the lessons for GS and keyskills but I wasn't going to work any harder than I absolutely had to and if we got set work to do outside the lesson I wasn't going to do it if it classed with music, social life or sleep! I will also take my other work to the lesson, as per the advice of Sarah.

Oh, and if anyone wants any disruptive ideas, the 'who can ask the most stupid question' game is a classic - it seems to work particularly well on RE and humanities teachers.



Don't do what people expect you to do, I've being doing that for 16 years and look at me! Why not take RE and then drop it after a few weeks if it's too much work. I went to a taster RE lesson and it seemed like a subject with lots of big questions and debates and you would probably enjoy them. Also, if you're not sure about whether to do music, why not do another subject at uni and then do a post-grad degree at music college.