Salrec responded to my post in Adult Learners with a very good questions: Given that I live in Nairobi (pretty much spitting distance from the equator) do I play a wooden recorder in this climate. The short answer is NO, I currently play on a Yamaha plastic (wood-grain finish). I am seriously considering buying a wooden recorder BUT....

The humidity and heat are important factors to consider. Even with my Yamaha I clog up halfway up a 1 1/2 octave scale - let alone trying to get through a whole piece without having to clear the windway. That liquid (I have no idea what its called) that you can put in your windway that helps prevent condensation ("anti-condensation liquid"?????) does help temporarily but I'm running out and I don't know if I can get more.

Nairobi is not that hot (although I've yet to experience the middle of summer) but tends to be pretty wet - two rainy seasons, humidity, etc. Given that I'm struggling with condensation in my plastic recorder (which is not really worse off by getting wet), I'm a little hesitant to buy a wooden recorder.

I have my heart set on an ebony Moeck Rottenburger (sic.) but I don't want to spend a lot of money and then regret it in a few months time with cracks and other such horrors. I know I'll be happier with wooden (plastic is never as satisfying) but I see buying one as an investment and know the recorder will be like my child. I'd be grief-stricken if anything happened to it.

I briefly found a flautist who gave me a few lessons (but we didn't see eye to eye on the recorder business) and she had a wooden recorder that was in deplorable condition but I'm not sure if this was just neglect (which I suspect) or the rigours of the climate (partly, probably).

Any thoughts? Should I risk it?

Wendy, forgive me if this is a rude question, but are you planning to be in Kenya "for ever and ever" as it were, or is this somewhere you live for a few years before moving on elsewhere?

Just this might give a way of thinking about your dream recorder - if you are going to live in a more sympathetic climate to it in the future, would it be worth saving up to have that Moeck Rottenburgh in Ebony at that stage, meanwhile perfecting your technique to do it justice on your Yammy now?

Alternatively, if Kenya's your homeland, that logic is completely inappropriate, and I can completely understand your wanting to go for an even nicer recorder than the Yamaha. In which case, I'm not sure what to suggest on recorder care, as I'm not that experienced with recorders yet myself.

Possibly try e-mailing John Everingham at Saunders Recorders, as he seems to know everything about recorder care and then some?

Not a rude question at all. I relocated here for work and will be in Nairobi for 2-5 years (I'm thinking probably 5 though) before moving again to a new posting. Of course, I don't know where my next posting will be either (options range from Thailand to New York).

A "wait and see" attitude does not seem that practical as a result, I mean Thailand is as, if not more, humid than Nairobi. I'm just not satisfied with plastic anymore. I'm playing Gr6 pieces and I'm just not hearing the music in my playing.

I checked out the Saunders website and it has some great information. Someone suggested maybe getting something like a Coolsma (mock ivory) as an alternative?

I see what you mean in terms of relocation, and that does put a different aspect on the question.

I guess the key issues with a wooden recorder in a humid climate would be extra care with playing in, and with cleaning and drying it after use; and not using it for extended lengths of time - so keeping the Yamaha as your "working" instrument and only using your new baby a short time each day/for performance.

I've never heard a Coolsma, although I've seen them on the Saunders website - has anyone heard/played one here?

I'm interested that you feel you don't hear the music in your playing using a plastic recorder. I know it has a different voice from wooden ones (I have a Yamaha 302 for my working instrument, and palisander and boxwood Moecks for my "Sunday best") but it's not altogether without music - I know people here have used Yamahas up to Grade 8 level, and I am painfully aware the limitations in the sound of my instrument are more about me than about it.

In fact in my Grade 5 I took both the Yamaha and the palisander Moeck in with me, and used the wooden one for the baroque sonata and unaccompanied (also baroque) piece but used the plastic for the modern piece, scales and sight-reading. That worked for me.

I would be worried about having a really expensive recorder in that climate. I would not be happy with plastic either. I think that a good compromise would be to buy a good second hand instrument (Think of it as a pre-loved one!) in one of the softer woods rather than ebony or rosewood. Maple or pearwood might suit you. The softer woods are often treated in the factory so that they are impregnated with paraffin wax and this will help to protect it from the continual wet/dry situation. It is this that causes cracking usually. If the wood is allowed to dry out because it is not treated then you will have problems. Recorders need to be oiled at least three times a year but in a hot climate the oil may get a bit rancid and smelly! With a pre treated one this will not be a problem as it should last years without needing to be oiled. The Early Music Shop in Bradford are useful for second hand instruments. They will give plenty of advice and even play them down the telephone if you ask them! If you then move back to the UK or to somewhere with a less hot and humid climate you could invest in a hardwood instrument. You could probably get insurance on whatever recorder you buy and it will be money well spent.
Coolsma recorders and fantastic and also quite pricey. I do not know their mock ivory ones and cannot say if you would have the same problems with condensation with those.
One further point that is worth thinking about. If you get a plastic recorder with a wider windway than your yam 300 series you will not have the same problems with clogging, but you will loose some of the baroque "feel" and tone.

As long as my wooden instruments are warmed up properly I find them a lot less prone to water clogging than my plastics.

As an alternative to the anti-condensant fluid for my plastics I use very very dilute washing up liquid. Has the same effect and a lemony smell

Is it worth emailing a few recorder shops and asking about which recorders will cope best with the conditions? Sounds like Petra has some good advice... you don't want to invest in a really beautiful instrument and then have it crack or something, that would be awful. Maybe a cheaper/more robust instrument would be a good intermediate? I'm no expert as you can tell, very much a novice on the recorder!

Have you considered one of the hybrid sorts, plastic headjoint and wooden body? Not terribly elegant but a lot cheaper to replace and apparently they sound more like a wooden recorder but have fewer problems. Might be something that will satsify the wood craving without breaking the bank and also it would not be such a delicate beast that you would be forever worried about the climate causing it problems.

Hope you manage to find a solution to your problem, Wendy.

The very hard woods are particularly prone to cracking - ironic when you consider that they come from tropical areas. It's the wet-dry-wet which the wood doesn't like, and cold-wet seems to be the worst. My guess is that the plastic Coolsma instruments, which are turned out of the plastic rather than moulded, might provide one way round the problem, as Katyjay suggests. I've tried out a wooden Coolsma, and liked it, though I plumped for another instrument in the end- the plastic ones will be made in the same way, but I haven't had a go on one. I know some players can get as good a sound out of plastic as from wood - I can't, and wouldn't be without my various wooden instruments, so you have my sympathy on this one. My Steenbergen 415 instrument clogs like crazy because its windway is dreadfully narrow, so I do use anticondens in it, but I hate the taste of the stuff....

Thanks for all the responses. I wasn't on over the weekend so am just reading them now. I also emailed one or two suppliers for input and got some interesting advice (some of which contradicts and some of which confirms some of the responses below).
1. A reputable supplier indicated to me that the polyester/mock ivory Coolsma's are prone to warping and would probably respond worse than a wooden recorder in the given climate.
2. No-one was really concerned about the humidity per se but much more by storage conditions and the danger of wet/dry/wet. The real danger is mould and as long as I mop religiously after playing and keep the recorder in a stable environment, I shouldn't have any problems.
3. I was advised against pre-treated by the way and also to go for harder wood rather than soft (contradicting Petrat completely!?). I think I'll get one more opinion on this as a tie-breaker and just go for it.

In the meantime, perchance, I met another alto recorder player over the weekend (I knew there had to be some, even in Nairobi!) and we had a good chat. She says she brought her Studio Kung with her from Switzerland where she was based previously and has not had a problem except for a darkened patch on the "throat" of the recorder (which I suspect may be mould?). I'm wondering though since she oils her instrument every two months which is more than is recommended by most people I've spoken to/internet sights I've viewed.

I think, the conclusion to all of this though is that I'm going to get a nice, middle of the range wooden recorder (wood to be determined) and see how it goes. If satisfactory after a year or so, I'll go for the pricier, fancier recorder I've got my eye on.

This is just what I was going to say! John seems to be a real expert, and although I don't know how much experience of Africa he has, his advice always seems to be very practical.

No, I'm not his agent - I just find him very helpful.

Thanks Salrec. I did and he was very helpful. His was one of the replies I referred to in my post of earlier today. Very insightful and really took the time to give me a detailed response.

Hi, Wendy,
firstly, sorry for the double posting, I don't know how do actually do all the technical stuff here yet!

I'm glad you've got some good feedback - I found it really fascinating. Such a hard decision for you though, and a bit of a gamble. Perhaps keeping a good plastic recorder for very routine practice - scales and the like - would save a wooden one getting too wet. As long as you played a wooden one regularly, and were careful about cleaning and drying, it sounds as though you would be ok. I wonder if keeping it with some silica gel (the grainy stuff you often get in little sachets in packaging) would help? Just a non-scientific thought!

My experience of the plastic/wooden hybrids isn't good, I wouldn't recommend them at all. They don't seem to have the best of either world, and I've been disappointed with their tone.

Do let us know what you eventually decide to do, and how it goes.

Can we be nosy and ask what you are doing in these exciting-sounding locations? Or maybe you've said and I've missed it. If so, apologies.

Um, no I haven't said anything. Working for a large international non-governmental organisation. I have to move every 5 years (Nairobi is my first posting so far) which suits my personality (if not a wooden recorder) down to the ground.

That sounds very interesting and worthwhile. I have a friend (non-musical) working for an NGO based in Kampala.

I was buying alto recorder music today and thinking of you. What are you currently playing?

Let us know when you decide on a recorder and get it - we can all think positive thoughts for its health and well being!

I'm not sure about the silica gel option - I wonder if it might hasten drying and risk worsening the problem? It's the big swings in humidity which do more of the damage. Some woods are naturally slightly oily, so going for these might help, though you will be more prone to condensation then. Blackwood, ebony, grenadilla - only watch in case you happen to be one of the unlucky souls who are allergic...

Yes, you're probably right, Anacrusis.

One other possible line of enquiry would be to ask at a museum. I did a quick search on Google so that I wouldn't be talking complete nonsense, and there seems to be a good museum in Nairobi, although I'm sure you already know that, Wendy.

Presumably they would have experience of curating wooden artefacts in your climate which could be applicable to a recorder. Just a thought.

The museum idea is an excellent one, although their wooden bits and pieces probably aren't subjected to the same wet and dry conditions. I still thinlk that a budget priced second hand pre treated wood is the best option. It will be less of a wasted investment if there are problems, and if you go for one of the modern recorders with a less narrow windway than some of the baroque copies have it should solve the problem. Please let us know of what the makers and tecnicians advise though.

I totally understand the desire to own a wooden instrument. My interest in recorder playing was re-born when I was given a cheap Mollenhaur pearwood treble for my 27th birthday. Whilst I play my plastic instruments frequently I love the feel of the wooden ones in my hands.

If you can afford it I'd go with the idea of buying a cheaper wooden instrument 1st and getting the ebony one either when you've moved to a friendlier climate or have 1st hand experience of how the wood copes in the climate. The chances are as your interest develops you will want a choice of recorder tones. Although I now also have another wooden treble I swap between the instruments (including the plastics) according to their strengths and the piece of music I'm playing.

I hope you enjoy whatever instrument you end up with.

[quote name='petrat' date='Sep 4 2006, 09:45 PM' post='388310']
The museum idea is an excellent one, although their wooden bits and pieces probably aren't subjected to the same wet and dry conditions.

No, but hopefully they would have some expertise. And it may be a way of meeting some other musicians if they have any instruments.

I used to play in a recorder quartet (sorry, this is digressing) where one of the other members was a fairly senior member of staff at the local university museum. We met in his lab at lunchtimes, and it was totally normal to set up our table-top music stands among dinosaur bones or something similar. You just never know where you might find some like minded souls.

Did you ever end up playing one of the bones by mistake?
You can get very cheap little meters which will let you know the atmospheric humidity - wouldn't help you to look after the instrument, but would let you know when things were getting dodgy - much below 35% or above 75% won't be great for the wood. The harpsichord museum in which my husband works has humidifiers and humidity control set for about 50-55%.

Based on the advice I've gotten from different suppliers and a former music teacher, ebony should hold up quite well in the climate as long as I minimise wet/dry/wet episodes, oil regularly, etc. So, I'm going to go with my heart here and get the ebony Moeck Rottenburger. If I spend my life waiting for the "right climate" I'm going to be a frustrated recorder player for a very long time.

Don't worry. I'll take good care of my baby once it arrives!

Fantastic!

Eeek. I sent an email to a supplier in New York about the Moeck Rottenburger. I'll be in New York next month on business and I figured I might as well order it there and pick it up rather than have it shipped all the way to Africa. This is the response I've got:

"We do not keep the Moeck Rottenburgh instrument in stock, as these are very dated in design (1969!), mediocre in quality, and there is virtually no demand for them in recent years. Perhaps you might wish to
consider the Mollenhauer Denner alto in grenadilla, which is of better design, higher quality, and less expensive as well."

I know opinios differ but that sounds almost hostile? I've spoke to so many people for whom the Moeck is a highly desirable instrument and I've heard an ebony Rottenburger played and personally fell in love with it. Besides, if you go to the Moeck website, they have recently upgraded their design (you'll have to understand German, I don't think they have an English version of the site) so I don't know where this guy gets off. The problem with asking people for their opinion is that its their opinion.

Well, I suppose I should ask - what does anyone think about the Mollenhauer Denner that he mentions?

that is absolute tosh, and it sounds like he's on commission or something. The Rottenburgh is a good-quality advanced student instrument, and still very popular. I noticed from the website that they now pitch them at a'=442Hz, which is probably quite sensible, since you can always flatten a recorder's pitch by pulling the joints out, but are lost once it is pushed in as far as it will go if you want to go sharper. I haven't played the Mollenhauer Denner recently - didn't like it when I did some years ago, but these things are so personal that that can't be taken as any sort of un-recommendation...I bought my Rottenburgh in 1986 - and although it is only a maple one, I still use it and it sounds fine. The one thing to watch out for is getting top F to speak - for years I thought it was because I was a duff player that I kept cracking that one note, then I got it serviced and it started to speak like a dream.
edit - sorry - I put 440Hz to start with! Put it down to advancing brain-rot...

I have a Moeck Rottenburgh descant and tenor, both in boxwood, and a Mollenhauer Denner treble in olivewood. They are all very nice recorders. The treble and tenor were bought from their respective ranges because they suited my hand size, rather than my having a preference for one brand over the other. Having said that, I love both of them, and have had very positive comments about both from better players than I am.

Think I'm getting itchy for another recorder again......
*thinks of excuses to nip down to Bradford...hmm, my mother-in-law needs another visit...*

I cannot afford to go anywhere in the vicinity of Bradford at the moment! I agree that this supplier is talking a pile of rubbish too. The moeck rotties have improved very greatly since they first appeared and they were pretty good then. I have a rosewood soprano thet I bought new for £27 and a sopranino, also in rosewood that cost £22.00. They are both used regularly and I am well pleased with them. (The sopranino is going to play the Vivaldi C major concerto.) For the current price they still are good value and should suit you well, if not the climate. Please let us know how they stand up to the conditions there.

Thanks everyone. I feel much better now. The ebony Rottenburger is the only wooden recorder I've ever actually seen and heard played and I fell in love with it! Not having a basis for comparison, I probably could have been wrong and those comments gave me pause for thought. To each his own though, if that guy doesn't like them, then he doesn't like them.

Anyway, I'm in negotiations with John from Saunders who is giving me lots of sane advice and will make my final decision and purchase soon.