Any ideas please.

I have one adult and one 11 year old who have tremendous difficulty with hearing the beat.
They can both play (reasonably) in time but when it comes to telling the difference between 2 and 3 time aurally it is a complete non starter. Doesn't matter how obvious I think it is (I know its easy when you know the answer but there are times when it is more obvious )

Seemed to have a little bit of breakthrough by asking them to move to the music (is it marching or dancing?)

All suggestions gratefully received.

Get them to clap what they think the important beats are, then play the firts beat of each bar louder.

QUOTE

Get them to clap what they think the important beats are, then play the firts beat of each bar louder

Yes, I would do that too. I'd make the first beat of the bar really obvious.

Some children (for reasons unknown), sometimes have trouble clapping the beat though and find it easy to press their leg on the first beat of the bar. The action of clapping can sometimes just take too long for them....before they know it the beat is gone...(perhaps?)

I think it was sad when the AB stopped asking for 'beating the time'. Many of my students have found that to be a better way of working out how many beats are in the bar...even if they end up doing just the downbeat.

I really have no idea why they find doing a downbeat or pressing their leg, easier than clapping. One of those weird things I've noticed.

This is one aural exercise that comes naturally to quite a lot of pupils, and apparently not at all to a small minority!!

Lots of practice and help can give them confidence, but I have often found that a student really doesn't improve very much on this between beginner level and grade one. Sorry to be a bit defeatist here ! I work quite hard with my students on aural training and in most respects they don't have much problem, but I have to admit to not finding the answer to this. There are one or two pupils - and they may do very well in other bits of the exam, including other aural questions -who give the opposite answer every time in practice, and get it wrong in the exam too!

I have tried beating time (which they often enjoy), and moving round the room, and some have been helped by these, but with one or two nothing seems to work - until later. I don't believe they can't be helped to do it, but it just seems to develop in its own time and take a lot longer with some students.

Maggie

Thanks for replies so far...
Have tried making the first beat louder...didn't make much difference
I think one problem may be that both of them seem to not listen to any kind of music at all.
If they did I think it would be a starting point to get them to bring in a CD they are familiar with and listen for the beat.

QUOTE (sbhoa @ Jul 5 2004, 07:49 PM)

Seemed to have a little bit of breakthrough by asking them to move to the music (is it marching or dancing?)

Yes, it is difficult to master.
I like to introduce conducting early on. They seem to like that and it helps feel the pulse. Also, I have tried bouncing a ball on the strong beat of the bar. The ball often goes astray but we have a laugh and I think the point gets across!

just a thought and i've no idea whether it would help, but could you try setting your metronome with the bell running at the beginning of each bar, and asking them to clap to that while you play? I'm assuming that after doing this for weeks maybe months (just a quick go at the beginning of each lesson) maybe it would eventually sink in.

Don't know if this would work....

One other thing to mention though is to get students to listen to your left hand, especially if you stick to the um-cha-cha or um-cha rhythms. This has helped a couple of mine before, it even can help if you sit them next to you and they watch the left hand doing the down up movement, to give them something to associate the sound with.

THis is where something like Dalcroze is so good - it gets children to recognise the rhythm by feeling it in their whole bodies. But Dalcroze classes aren't readily available, although they should be.

I've had pupils with the same problem, though surely with the early aural tests they do emphasise the first beat of each bar so strongly that it's hard to miss. I use the aural tapes and get my pupils to listen for as long as possible before making a decision; this gives them enoguh time to see how regularly the heavier beat is recurring. As they begin to recognise it, you start to shorten the time, and they start to get better at it.

It would probably help if you play excerpts of music to them in a lesson and get them to recognise the time signature. Why not play a bit of "Eine Kleine Nacht Musik" followed by a Strauss Waltz? It's a bit abstract if all they're going on is actual aural test extracts. They need to get a feel for actual music!

Violinia

As a bit of a piano snob I observed a "keyboard" class recently and was amazed at how good their rhythm skills were. With the keyboard you get the "rhythm section" going first and then start your tune, and the teacher always counts in like this : 1..2..1,2,3,4 or 1,2,3 whatever

Anyway I suspect that us classical types do not actually emphasis rhythmic skills enough early on and just expect our pupils to be able to do it. I have lots of good intentions about clapping rhythms and beats before learning pieces but I never seem to put them into practice, unless I have a pupil who is obviously struggling.

Why don't you tell them what the beat is, count them in and just get them to clap along while you play appropriate pieces. Do this for as long as it takes to get them confident before you get them to try and find the beat for themselves.

I have tried telling what the beat is and counting along...... my adult pupil still says she can't hear it.
She says she thinks that she has it in the first few bars but that it appears to change the more she tihnks about it.

Might get the keyboard going and try that.....

I would have thought that FEELING the beat is easier and more important than HEARING it. Try to get students to MOVE as much as possible and in a variety of ways - patting, tapping, walking, clapping, bouncing a ball, clicking, dancing, jumping! It's the only way to improve and develop a feeling for the pulse. This has to be developed prior to being able to identify the metre of a piece.