I can't believe the number of threads in the teachers' forum ######ing about parents. Seriously. If they want to teach kids, surely they realize they have to deal with the parent who holds the purse-strings? If they don't want to do that, they could teach adults?? Or cats??? Or get a different job????

Feeling grumpy tonight!

OOh dear- chill, all ears! My cat walks very well over the keyboard. On the whole, my parents are quite a good bunch really.

It's so easy for this to appear bigger than it is.
What you see on the teachers' forum is teachers sharing problems with other teachers.
I'm quite sure that these problems are by far in the minority but as it's the problems we need help with and not the times when things run smoothly it tends to look as though all teachers do is complain.

Please try to see it in context. I'm sure non of the teachers on here intend to come across as maners (and I'm sure that generally they aren't really) but private teaching in particular can be rather isolating and the forum is a place to share and discuss problems and to find that we are not usually alone in the small troubles we sometimes encounter.

Hi all ears. Go on, have a moan - you won't offend us. It'll do us good to hear the other side of the coin!
Seriously, David is right. I have a super bunch of parents at the moment. Some of them understand that we are running a business from the word go, i.e. we don't just stay at home in case little Johnny turns up, and if he doesn't well, never mind. Others, I'm afraid we do have to educate (though it IS a small minority). I arrange my whole life around my private lessons. I have been known to rush my meals, cut short the dog's walk, not do everything I need to in town, only to find that Johnny is doing something else/has forgotten, etc., some of the time with an hour's notice. There's nothing worse than rushing your shopping, not getting petrol on the way home because you haven't the time, even saying no to a social event because YOU have made the commitment, only to find that there's a message on the ansafone when you get home..."hope you don't mind, but..."
Now I'm lucky because I don't have any vacancies, and my students (I do teach a lot of adults)/parents understand that (in the nicest possible way), if they don't respect my time, I can fill their slot with someone else.
At the moment I have issued a "final letter before legal action" to parents whose 16-year old has cancelled 55% of lessons this year, often at less than 24 hours notice. When I wrote to them with a list of all the dates cancelled this year, with the reason and amount of notice given, I think it surprised them. I don't normally ask for money up front - I prefer to be paid weekly. So I offered to keep him on IF I got 10 lessons fees up front, and subject to satisfactory attendance in future. They cancelled with immediate effect. I am still waiting for my notice period fees as per my contract (only 4 weeks, which is more than fair). I am quite prepared to take it to the County Court. They are in business themselves, so should have treated this in a more professional way. I have been MORE than patient.
So, all ears, sorry if we go on a bit. I guess we all need to get things off our chests sometimes. But most of the time, we love you to bits!

Then again, if the parents are anything like mine and totally against music, then it's not surprising that the teachers moan about them. My music teacher hates my mother because i really had to fight to take A level music (i actually had to make out i was doing maths)

oh here's one for you .........

at the school i teach flute in, it is policy to pay for lessons 10 weeks in advance, directly to the teacher.

my student came to her 3rd lesson this week, saying ....

i'm sorry i don't have your cheque again, but mom and dad bought something extravagant off e bay so now they can't afford to pay you, hopefully i will have the cheque for next week.

i can't go loop the loop at the kid, it's not her fault - and i am really teed off, so if i don't get a cheque next week i will have to write a letter, which i truly hate doing and tend to avoid at all costs even if it means me having to wait to get paid for lessons that children have already had.

snot fair

ange

OK - I'll jump in too ...

A parent phoned me two days before the start of this term (actually she didn't - she got the pupil's older sister to do it)

"xxx can't come for lessons because mom hasn't got a job now. "

This child had needed a change of time for this school year, and we discussed it and earmarked the time during July ready for September. We were working towards grade one and I had recently found a (free) second-hand piano for the child.

There was no hint of any doubt over this term. No-one explained that mom was having to give up her job in order to go abroad for a month in the school holidays.

I reminded them of the one-month notice period - but how can you enforce that when, if they had the money the child would be coming for the lessons?? I'm stumped.

I have written expressing disappointment and asking for the return of a book which is owing. Not received it yet. I'm particularly sorry about the piano, which belonged to a lady who simply wanted it to be used and enjoyed.

Most are fine - as others have said! but the one or two cause headaches and frustration.

Well I've moaned and moaned about my daughter's Flute Teacher and I have to say that everyone has tried to offer advice and be as helpful as they can. This does not mean that I think badly of all teachers or have come to distrust anyone making a living form teaching.

I hope the teachers on the Forum don't think I'm anything like the parents they moan about either, which I'm sure they don't.

It's just a matter of perspective, we will all face situations that we recognise as difficult in all aspects of our life. The great thing about this Forum is that we can seek advice and learn from each other.

Because I don't cancel lessons except in exceptional circumstances, stick to times and pay on time, support practice and provide required equipment, to the best of my ability, I can quite agree with teachers who moan about parents behaving in these ways.

I know how I felt when my eldest had a Tap duet with a girl who turned up with no shoes, never practised, claiming she did not have the Music, (when she did) and when she did have shoes they didn't fit or had no taps. I know how frustrating it was, so why should a teacher have to put up with that sort of thing?

Heh heh, after a good night's sleep, I'm feeling considerably less curmudgeonly, but have definitely come down with a sore throat...so sorry if I overdid my comments last night...

Noodle, I don't think that teachers shouldn't complain, I'm sure that teachers have plenty of justifiable gripes about parents, and I do sympathize with the trials and tribulations of extracting payment, dealing with lack of commitment/preparation, isolation, etc.

but

I do think that some complaints are unrealistic. A student arriving 10 minutes early for a lesson is not the end of the world! I keep reading similar complaints and frankly, they have me scratching my head.

In my unreasonable parent-ish way, I think that teachers should give some thought to how students come and go, and provide somewhere to wait and set up/ pack up, even if it's a chair in the teaching area. In my experience, it's quite rare for a teacher with a full schedule to start or finish a lesson right on time, and I've never met a teacher without some kind of solution for arriving and departing students. My sister in law often has me send her kids' books and cartoons etc for her piano students.

Teachers who teach from a home with no separate teaching area are presumably subjecting their students to a slightly less calm and organized teaching environment, so shouldn't they also be a little accommodating about the personal inconvenience resulting from having nowhere for their students to wait?

There is no excuse for non-payment or lack of preparation, and as a parent, I have a responsibility to get my kid to lessons on time. Teachers do their best to offer a good time, but in the end, I must either make the time I am offered work or find another teacher. One teacher reschedules lessons almost every week, often at the last minute, but I just assume that it's all give and take. If I'm not prepared to put up with it, I can always vote with my feet.

I understand that Viohazard is not his teachers' only student and not their whole life either; but to be quite honest, Viohazard's lessons are also only part of my life (a large part, but...). And yes, school comes first.

To return to the topic which irritated me in the first place - the parental taxi service. Parents can't just apparate and disapparate at the required times - moving physically to and from a place takes time, and never exactly the same amount of time either, so students anxious to be on time WILL arrive a few minutes early. Last week a road tunnel suddenly closed, landing me with an unexpected 20 minute detour in the lesson-run route. I can't have Viohazard phone from the car, because that would interrupt the teacher's previous lesson (neither of his teachers teach from home, so no ansaphone, and neither seems to have figured out the voice mail or text functions on their cell-phones ). As it was, we had left in good time, and he was only 2 minutes late - but what that means, obviously, is that he's normally a little early.

As for pick-up, if parents are not wanted in lessons, they can freeze or bake in their cars...if there is enough roadside parking for say 3 parent cars. If there is no parking (or the next student arrives early), parents are likely to be late to avoid double-parking. Luckily, I don't have that problem, but when Viohazard's violin or guitar lessons run an hour over, even though I'm appreciative of what his teachers are doing for him, it also means my clients (and family) are wondering where I am. How do you think I feel phoning a client back, to say that I can't read his triple-urgency fax right now because I'm held up at my darling's music lesson??? I don't even know if he's going to run 10 minutes over or 90 minutes over, I just have to deal with it. Teachers and clients alike have that last choice - if they don't like the conditions, they can resign themselves or make an effort to change them, or give the whole thing up. I'm not saying that teachers or parents need to be doormats, but after all, nobody forced teachers to choose private music teaching as a career, just as nobody forced me to arrange private music lessons for my child.

As a free-lance, home-based translator, I share a lot of ground with private music teachers, and I do understand the isolation. I used to teach at home, so I know about the cancellations and no-shows, and the tired-after-school kids, and chose to avoid those problems by teaching outside the home only. Believe me, some of my clients are every bit as overbearing, temperamental, and slow to pay as any parent could be, but most of the problems are similar in any job that requires direct contact with clients. At times I need to remind myself that annoyances arise from the nature of the work or clients' lack of understanding, rather than from an ill-natured and cunning desire to make my life a misery.

P.S. Angie, I love the e-bay excuse! Very frustrating, but hope you enjoy a few laughs over it when you HAVE got your money. My best yet was "Yes, we received your invoice, but we've now decided to change our closing date to the 12th of each month, effective retrospectively, and to extend our payment time by a month, so your invoice of the 15th will be processed next month, and you can expect payment at the end of the 2nd month after that" (i.e. over 3 months after the job was completed - not in itself unusual in my line of work).

P.P.S. On reconsideration, I realize that half the problem from the teacher's point of view is answering the doorbell. In most cases I know where the teacher has a back-to-back schedule, the teacher teaches in the front room of the house, and has installed a locked internal door in the hall, so the front door is unlocked. Alternatively, they teach in coffee-shops during their slack time, or community centres, or above a music shop or luthier, so the entrance is necessarily manned.

Just a couple of additions :

I think ALL_EARS has a point about door bells. We use two music teachers - both lovely and accomodating and much appreciated.

One has to come to the door and let the child in, so asks that you ring the door bell at your lesson start time. This can leave the children hanging around outside (in the dark in the winter) because the vagaries of London transport mean that you always aim to get everywhere a little early ... 10 minutes early IS on time in London! The teaher is scrupulously fair about lesson time, so the children try hard to be scrupulous about being on time and not interupting.

The other can leave her door open and actively encourages you to let yourself in and get out your instrument quietly whilst sitting at the back of the clas - seeing the end of the previous persons class. WHen the previous lesson time ends your lesson starts immediately whilst the other pupil packs up. The children are used to this - there is always an overlap at the beginning and end of the lessons and each child always gets their full lesson time.

Each teachers premises lead to the way they need to work and can't be changed, and works for them - however the second route seems to work well for all concerned - lesson time is maximised, interruption is minimised etc. and people aren't left either feeling that they must hang around in the street, or that they are interupting the teacher by ringing the bell (which they would on a cold and rainy night ...). It somehow leads to less anxiety ...

I've read through these threads, and am feeling rather cross at one or two - sorry. I am both a teacher, and a mother who takes her daughters to lessons with other teachers. . .

As a teacher, yes, I do like to be paid on time, have lessons start and end on time, but I also believe - very firmly - that there is more to all this than simply running a business. I would never, ever, leave a child on the doorstep, even though we live in a quiet suburban area. If they do arrive early, then I let them in and they generally sit quite happily on the stairs for a few minutes. If their parents are late collecting them, then there is usually a good reason for this, and very often I get a phone message explaining. Again, they are welcome to wait on the stairs if I have another lesson, or in the music room if not. If they are in the music room then they are welcome to play the piano (not an instrument I teach), do some extra practice, or simply wait for their lift. I really don't find it a problem.

Surely we should all care for our pupils, and understand that with the best of intentions things do not always go to plan for any family. Persistent offenders are another matter, but a bit of firmness usually sorts it out. One of my pupils walks about a mile home after her lesson as her mother is unable to collect her. Last week it was pouring with rain, and she would have got soaked. I didn't have a lesson after her, so gave her a lift home. A bit later the mother phoned to thank me, offered to pay for my petrol, and said that she would ensure her daughter had waterproofs and a better bag for her music any time it looked like being wet again. But, surely, this was just caring for her as a person?

The teachers my children go to are lovely and we have no problems. One has a small waiting area outside her studio which is safe and comfortable, and the other, who is often over-running, is happy to offer her living room, or her own children's trampoline if the weather is good.

One teacher had to cancel a lesson at short notice this week due to a crisis in her family, but went to a lot of trouble to re-arrange it, coming to our house instead one evening. And I have done the same on occasions.
If I am flexible with my pupils, they will be flexible with me. My family life sometimes has to come first, and lessons get changed, but so what? It all works out in the end.

Despite all this, my pupils do all get at least the time they have paid for, I do run at quite a good profit, and do not feel at all "put-upon" by anyone else.

I teach from home in my living room-I'd love to be able to afford a bigger house with a seperate music room and waiting area but I can't. That doesn't mean the atmosphere is any less calm or ordered-or professional. In fact, my home students have a much more restful lesson than my school ones who have to compete with choir practice next door, drum lessons down the corridoor, and the day to day hustle and bustle of a busy school. I always start and finish my lessons on time-the only exception to this is the occasional last lesson of the day- to do otherwise would be really unfair on my students, their parents and also on myself.

I'm a parent and a teacher, so I see both sides of things and could fill a page with stories.

But my reason for writing is that if a pupil comes in early (and we have various systems for opening the front door), which is not often the case I have to admit, I accept pupil into the teaching room where they sit on the settee and wait in total silence without fidgeting (I've never had to ask for this - it just worked like that).

The wait is not usually long (not 10 minutes like one of the previous posters), just a few minutes. I have taken the attitude that most pupils at some stage will have to play or perform in front of someone else, so they should not worry about someone else in the room for just a few minutes. Is that unreasonable?

If I had a pupil who was really early, on a regular basis, I would put a chair in the hall, and I would expect them to bring a book or something to do while they waited. I would make this clear if it seemed that the situation was likely to continue.

As always, there are two sides to every story. One of my pupils is notoriously late: this week he turned up at 7.20 for a lesson that was supposed to start at 7.00. When his father came to collect him, I enquired as to how the rest of the family were doing - turns out Pupil's sister is ill in hospital. Whilst this doesn't make the tardiness any less frustrating, I'm more inclined to be sympathetic knowing some of the background.

I teach from home, and whilst my home may have that lived-in look, I do at least try to keep the public areas reasonably clean and tidy. I just can't work in chaos!

Every career path has its share of irritating clients, and whilst they're the minority, they stick in your mind for the wrong reasons.

I'm pleased to say that I never had any problems with any of my teachers when I was younger, and that as far as I know, my parents didn't cause them any grief either.

I think the longer you've been teaching the more black and white you become about these things. I certainly have over the years, and I think it's a good thing rather than a bad. No one needs to be confrontational about what they expect from pupils and parents, but it's essential to be clear and assertive. It can often be the case that parents won't realise they're inconveniencing you in some way, especially if the whole private tuition scenario is new to them, so it's best for everyone concerned if the teacher's terms/conditions/expectations are handed to all new parents in writing before lessons even start. It's useful to explain in this letter exactly why pupils can't consistently arrive too early, for instance; people in general are much more accomodating if they understand this type of thing from the word go.

That's certainly very good of your teacher, but wouldn't be possible for all teachers by any means! It doesn't mean we're less accomodating people - just busier! But like I said above, it's best for teacher and parent to have an understanding before lessons even start so that this type of thing won't be an unforeseen problem.

You know at the end of the day most parents and teachers are reasonable. misunderstandings can sometimes occure because people are just getting on with their busy lives. Relationships often breakdown because of lack of communication and crossing of boundaries.

Sometimes it's hard to know where the boundries are because we are such differant people. The girls Guitar teacher always arrives late, runs over and then chats to me for ages. Their recorder teacher arrives, straight into the lesson leaves more or less on time and has little time to chat. It does not effect their ability to teach or influence my feelings towards them.

True that - the parents who get complained about are, I think, a minority for *most* teachers.


That's half of it, isn't it: if a student arrives 10 minutes early or is picked up 10 minutes late once in a while, that's one thing, but if it happens week on week/there isn't a reason or even an explanation, THEN a teacher is likely to feel rather put upon, and it isn't surprising.

To sarah-flute

Sorry this is really off track - but I see that you have done 17030 posts and have only been a "poster" for about 6 months more than me - do you really live in Insomniaville!?

Sorry - rather rude post - I'll go away now.

I agree.

-

Shouldn't that read "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz" ?????

According to my calculations, May 2005 minus six months *is* December 2004.

Isn't it?

I am sure that is can look that way from the teacher's forum, but personally I find it a place where I can share concerns and, maybe, offer help to others experiencing things I have experineced in my career. It's quite a lonely job and without the fourms there is not really anyone to "bounce ideas off" or grumble too as in your own geographical area you are often in competition with the very people who could share work-type discussions. So what you get really on the teachers fourm is a bit like the works kitchen where people get together and have a little moan about the downsides to their job or seek advice on how to be better at their job.

In all honesty I have found myself a much more committed, stronger willed, effective teacher since I have startd visiting the forums as I now realise that my experiences are not unique and can often be easily handled.

Speaking as a student, if I may butt into this forum, I find it quite useful to read teachers' grumbles and find out teachers' perspective on things. I don't "think" I've behaved too badly so far , but now I have a better understanding of how teachers view lessons and pupils, hopefully I'll continue to have productive and rewarding lessons for a long time to come .

As the famous Fanny Waterman said "I don't choose my pupils, I choose my parents!"I have a great set of parents and pupils at present but from experience over the years, they pay half a term up front now and I rarely have problems. But I went through a terrible patch a few years ago when I was constantly chasing parents for the money and they were letting me down at the last minute. One mother messed me about with times of lessons for her two girls and eventually, as I couldn't give them a back to back lesson, took them away. She still owes me money for books, after three years.
I go to a foreign language class and we have to pay a term in advance and if we don't go for any reason ( including illness) we just lose the money. After all, why should the teacher lose out?

If you can be bothered serve her with a fourteen day letter threatening to take her to court for breech of contract. Ann, aren't you an ISM member why not ask them for legal advise.

Be prepared to serve the writ if necessary. You won't loose pupils for it, but if news gets around they might think you mean business.

I think we have a good relationship with our current music teacher - but that hasn't always been the case with other teachers. We turn up slightly early to be ready for the teacher and we expect lessons to start more or less on time. Anything else - on a regular basis - is unprofessional. However we've had group lessons at school in the past where the teacher breezes in 10 minutes late with no apology, starts gossiping and finally starts the lesson only when the parents look very restless. The lesson then may not run for the proper length as the teacher still wants to leave on time. One was so bad about timekeeping parents demanded a replacement.

If you want parents to treat you well act professionally. I'm perfectly happy to pay my teacher a term in advance in advance but she only asks for 4 weeks at a time, realising that's easier for parents. She puts chairs out in the hall for early arrivals, we enter as quietly as we can. We'd pay for lessons we have to cancel if she asked, (but are pleased she doesn't) and we'd expect her to rearrange lessons she has to cancel. A bit of give and take on both sides works wonders. We pay slightly more per lesson but we're willing to do that to get someone who's attitude is professional.

No need - they paid up!
I am used to chasing money in a past life in accounts, so know the wording to frighten them. It's easier to DIY it than involve the ISM - it's a simple enough proceedure if you have to go through the Small Claims Court. However, if you're not familiar with the system the ISM's legal team is very helpful.

That's appalling.

I'm a trainee lawyer currently doing my seat in civil litigation ....

I specialise in issuing proceedings at the moment. Just issue a small claim now: as I tell my clients, they may be able to ignore their letters but they cannot ignore the court as there are consequences.

Do you know how to issue a small claim? If not, send me a PM, I'd be happy to help!

Anyway .... back to the forum topic: I'd come down on the teachers side here. I remember from my school days; there are too many insufferable pushy parents who think they know better than teachers. If they're such experts why on earth don't they teach their child themselves

Quincy,
What are those consequences? I have friends who have gone to the small claims court. Yes, it's very easy to do, and yes, the other people end up with a summons, have to attend the court etc.

But it appears that the problems start afterwards, ie actually getting the money. Even if it finally comes to sending the bailiffs round, the people who have won the case don't always get their money - usually only a small fraction of it. The major consequence seems to be that the losing party gets a bad credit rating and can't apply for loans, but they often don't care.

I knew a great family near us who were ripped off big time by a local garage. They finally won their case in the small claims court, but then discovered that the garage owner had everything registered in his wife's name. They ended up worse off than before!

Steve

Quincy - thanks for the offer, but as you see, they paid. If it gets to the "final letter before legal action", I always tell them that, if judgement is found against them it will incur them in costs, and interest under section 69 of the 1984 County Court Act, and may affect their ability to obtain credit in the future. I would not hesitate to go to court either. I've issued summons in the past, and represented a past employer in court. It's not scary when you are in the right.

Stevensfo - I don't know if the figure has changed, but it used to be that if the judgement is for over £50 (this would include costs and interest), the jugement is registered against their credit history, and would be seen on an application for credit - mortgage, loan, credit card, etc.
You will always get the ones like those your friends encountered, but thankfully, they are in the minority. Most parents, or adult students are not in thet league, and the vast majority of cases are settled without having to issue any proceedings at all.

I think having to sue for your fees goes a bit beyond a slack parental attitude! Glad to hear they paid up.

Tempting as it is, maybe it's not so useful to compare private teachers with public school teachers? Although the professional skills used are the same, a public school teacher's client is the child who is legally required to avail himself/herself of her services; while the pursestrings are controlled by the school (i.e. the client is not connected to the teacher's pay-packet in any way!). Private students are voluntarily requesting to be taught a skill which they are not legally required to learn from anybody at any stage in their careers, and the teacher is paid directly by people connected with the client, thus blurring the issue over whether the parent or the child is the actual "client". Obvious, I know, but very important with regard to parent-teacher relations, even if none of the parties involved consciously differentiate.

In my mind, while my children were very young, I was the client rather than my child (i.e., the teacher and I were more likely to negotiate content and conditions). Now that Viohazard is 12, he and his teacher negotiate what to learn next and when lessons will be, and I rarely do more than hand over money ).

My original point was that I noticed several complaints about parents or students not treating teachers with the respect due to a professional. I have to agree with buzzard1994 - on the whole, things go well, but professional behavior generates respect, not professional status in itself.

A lot of my translation has to do with safety issues such as identifying the seeds of a problem and preventing the problem from developing. The idea is that any recurring problem means that something needs to be changed - and failure to do so is a failure in responsibility. Of course, there are things beyond our control, and people willingly compromise on some things (flash studio with big waiting room, coffee and glossy mags laid on!!) in order to gain others (good teacher well-trusted by child, close enough for kid to attend without getting tired out commuting to lessons).

So when I hear people complaining about parents constantly arriving early, I think to myself "These people blame parents for the problem, without wanting to alter their own behavior at all." For example, many self-employed people offer services without client arrivals and departures being an issue. If you go to visit your doctor or lawyer, or go to a hairdresser with a home salon or a home based photographer, you don't expect to be kept waiting on the street in the rain until the previous client is finished. And to be honest, if music teachers weren't dealing mostly with children, would they regard that as appropriate professional behavior toward a client?

Music teachers may feel that their earnings don't warrant having a studio, or installing a special waiting room or double doors - but from my point of view, that's their decision, and the teacher's resulting inconvenience stems largely from that decision. However impractical the teacher's conditions may be, if parents agree to meet them, then of course they are obliged to do so. It's just that it doesn't hurt to consider whether your conditions are in fact reasonable before demanding compliance.

AS a parent, I really do appreciate teachers who spell things out - working alone, it's easy to think that "our way" is the ONLY way (I know I do this too, and am quite surprised when I get a client who has a totally different way of operating). For example, I see quite a range of opinions about changing lesson times or canceling lessons. Viohazard's current violin teacher demands that he cancel a lesson (for example during school exams) rather than come without practicing properly, because anything else is insulting. Now suppose Viohazard tried this on his guitar teacher? Viohazard would think he was doing the "right" thing, but that teacher would have felt that Viohazard was showing he didn't care about guitar at all. Much better to know what each teacher expects.

But as almost everybody has pointed out, in the end it's respect for one another on the human level that makes for a good parent-teacher relationship. I'm more than happy to do things the way Viohazard's teachers want them done, and I know that they treat him with consideration too. It's a bonus when a teacher is particularly understanding, but it isn't my right, and I think that goes both ways.

A separate issue - parents and adult students who pick and choose what they will or won't accept of the teacher's guidance. I can see a need for consultation at times, but I think that you have a case for asking that students accept the teacher's last word. (I once had a client who wanted me to change "turn on" to "turn" because *he* believed they meant the same thing!) It's like buying a dog and trying to teach it to bark.

I hear you pal!

You are right in what you say in that at the end of the day, even if you get a judgment in your favour then if there's no money to take you never get it.

BUT issuing a small claim may well mean people just pay up especially if it's a small amount. Alot of people will not wish to have a CCJ registered against them as their credit rating will be ruined.




I posted before I read the whole thread .....

I realsied you'd settled it and then if course I couldn't delete the post.

Yes you can - what you do is click on "edit" then click on "quick edit" option which pops up in a box, then use backspace or delete on your keyboard to delete some or all of what you've written.......then click on "complete edit" and it will put the post back up, but in its edited version. Of course, if someone else quotes your post directly in their reply (like I've done here!) then the unedited version will still remain as part of the other person's reply.......

I can't think of anything more embarrassing, as far as lessons are concerned, than not either turning up with the money or paying in advance for the lessons. I'd be mortified if I forgot to bring the money. My money is usually put in an envelope in my music bag. Those parents who do not pay on time should put themselves in the place of teachers and imagine how they would feel if someone did not pay them for a service they had provided.

I WAS mortified when Viohazard once took the lesson fee with him...and brought it back home again

The girls piano teacher always makes a big fuss of our dog on the way in and out. I have once or twice dropped her at home and had to go straight back because I've forgotten to pay her . Luckily she always knows it's just a mistake and we have a laugh over it

I teach a boy who often goes home with my cheque still in his pocket......partly my fault because I forget to ask him for it. He is improving though (and so am I).

I have been known to do that... Although last half term I paid at the first lesson, before my teacher had even worked out what I owed her!!

Today I arrived about 15 minutes early for my lesson and rang the door bell but the teacher did not let me in, so I stood on the doorstep for about 10 minutes before ringing again and then she let me in. She asked me if I had rang 10 minutes ago, so I knew that she had heard me. I said, "Yes, I had but was early so decided to just wait there." She didn't say it was okay and that I could have come in and waited until she had finished whatever she was doing, because I was the first pupil. I do tend to be early generally for things but I don't arrive at my lessons early on purpose. I just don't want to be late because I am relying on the bus. I suppose she wants me not to get into the habit of arriving early, as that was only my third lesson. I just felt a bit upset inside.

It's understandable that you were upset! I can understand the teacher, not wanting you to make a habit of arriving, early but the fact you are using Public Transport should be taken into consideration.

if my child was using public transport and was left on the doorstep for 10 minutes we'd be looking for another teacher, that's not acceptable.


I wondr how other people pay their teachers? We're asked for 4 weeks in advance but we usually pay for about 5 or 6 weeks at a stretch depending on term length. For the school music service it was a whole term in advance.

[quote name='buzzard1994' date='Nov 10 2006, 09:40 PM' post='420824']
if my child was using public transport and was left on the doorstep for 10 minutes we'd be looking for another teacher, that's not acceptable.




Why? Did you pay extra for 10 minutes childminding?

Thought not.


PS Where is your child safer? On the bus? Or on the doorstep?

[quote name='violincjj' date='Nov 10 2006, 09:42 PM' post='420826']
[quote name='buzzard1994' date='Nov 10 2006, 09:40 PM' post='420824']
if my child was using public transport and was left on the doorstep for 10 minutes we'd be looking for another teacher, that's not acceptable.




Why? Did you pay extra for 10 minutes childminding?

Thought not.


PS Where is your child safer? On the bus? Or on the doorstep?
[/quote]

If I had someone on public transport with no other lesson immediately before I would let the lesson start when they arrived. I did have an adult learner using public transport to get to her lesson, sometimes she was a bit later or a bit earlier depending on the buses but as i knew she was dependent on the bus to get her here we started when she arrived and finished in time for her bus home.

Maybe if the teacher is made aware that Melody Armour is on the bus she will accomodate this?

I have to wonder how many lawyers could keep their clients if they left them waiting in the street without even acknowledging their arrival? A one-to-one business such as consulting or teaching, especially one with rapid turn-around of clients, would be considered pretty bare bones if it provided a single chair for waiting adult clients, so doing that much is hardly "childminding" just because clients are children.

It is teachers who choose to schedule students back-to-back, not students. How can it then be entirely the students' responsibility to make a zero-tolerance arrival time work?

Anybody whose work involves children has some responsibility for their safety - it seems like an unnecessary professional risk to ignore that.

I agree with you, but it is still infuriating when it's the same people every week that arrive early and parents arrive late. Almost as if the parents think that if they do this they'll have time to do their weekly shop! However, due to this I have placed a chair in the hallway recently. I, personally, would never leave any child (or adult) waiting at the door, especially as the night are dark now. If my first pupil arrives early and I'm still wading through my tea, they are welcomed in and asked to warm-up on the piano. The others wait in the hallway. I used to let them straight in the room, as in some ways it is good for pupils to perform in front of others, but I realised it is unfair as it's at the end of the lesson I'm summing up things and this is not right to be overheard by others. I also never let a child wait outside for their parents, no matter how late they are (again it's always the same ones). I always remind myself that it's not the poor kid's faults afterall, and most of them are embarrassed that their parents haven't shown up on time. However, please don't compare us to lawyers, 'cos they earn a lot more money than us and can afford to work from premises (not their own homes) - (bearing in mind the extra work we put in regarding planning the lesson, our own practise, exam entries etc.). In fact last week we were in our lawyer's office. We turned up on time and were led into a shabby cold office and there was an excrutiating sound coming from the telephone system. Half an hour later we were shown into his office and were rushed in and out. Not a good comparison! If people have a problem with their music teacher, then they are free to go elsewhere, whereas normally a lawyers is only used short-term so we tend to put up with it!

Thanks for putting a chair in the hall! It's the difference between dealing with the problem and not dealing with the problem.

I hear what you are saying, but as I mostly work from home myself (though rarely have to meet my clients here, heh heh ), I guess interrupted mealtimes just seem normal to me.

Always the same parents - yes. As others say, arriving 10 minutes early might seem like the right thing to do to many parents, and lack of thought may make a parent think that late pick-ups are not a problem to anybody but the child, so I'm sure it helps to discuss things directly teacher-to-parent. After experiencing lessons with several music teachers in both NZ and Japan, I'm sure that parents and teachers can also quite innocently have very different needs and very, very different expectations. It's a pity if "vote with our feet" is the only action either side takes to resolve difficulties!

But this is not about a parent dropping a child off early and picking up late.
It's about a teenager travelling by public transport to her lesson who most likely has a choice between arriving early or arriving late.
I don't think that she was expecting her lesson or her time in the teacher's house to be any longer than agreed.

If they arrive early I let them in but I do say "gosh! You must have run here - you're 10 minutes early!!!" (Or other appropriate words!!!) But if I'm in the middle of something else or still need to go to the loo it does feel very awkward knowing the pupil is there in the musicroom while I'm trying frantically to finish what I would have done before they arrived if they'd arrived on time. I try not to leave them too long so usually start and finish the lesson slightly early if I can...... but it's difficult for teachers too.......But I don't leave them on the doorstep.