I have just been watching this performance of the Elgar cello concerto by professional cellist Amanda Forsyth (Pinchas Zucherman's wife). If I had been in the audience I would have been embarrassed by her behaviour. I think the soloist missed out a few bars and things fell apart, which is bad enough, but I don't think she should have behaved the way she did afterwards. It spoilt the rest of the performance. The cello twirling and her general attitude seemed totally unprofessional to me.

This made me think about the different things that could go wrong during a performance. For example, if you were a soloist what are you supposed to do if one of your strings snaps or goes badly out of tune? or what do you do if the orchestra aren't totally in time with each other? or if you miss your big entry? or if the conductor goes at a much faster tempo than you rehearsed at and you can't cope? or if in the excitement of the moment you speed up and the orchestra can't keep up and you suddenly find yourself a few bars ahead? or if you are playing from memory and you forget your part?

I think in most cases I would hope the conductor would sort things out, but I wondered what other people think.

That was disgraceful behaviour. Who does she think she was fooling? In any case even if it was the orchestra's fault she shouldn't behave like that. I too would have been extremely embarrassed and I'm afraid I would probably have pointedly left at the end of the movement, especially if I was in the front row I would probably have done the same if I was in the orchestra

The conductor should be able to sort it out, and the orchestra should be able to pick up from where the soloist is. However if they are a community orchestra then this may be more difficult.

There are various ways to deal with a string break, I think it depends on where you are in the piece, who you are , and what resources are available to you.

Paul Barritt playing Viv's 4 seasons with a very small chamber group just stopped, went off stage, restrung, came back, and recommenced roughly where he left off.

Vadim Repin in the Tchaik at the Proms I think wanted to carry on, but the orchestra stopped, so he stopped and changed the string, throwing the broken one to the prommers.

Maxim usually nicks the leader's fiddle and carries on, while the orchestra restring his, and then he retrieves it later. Although once in the Britten his e string broke at a crucial point and he just carried on, playing a high F# on the A string (in the rosin) until there was a suitable pause to do the swap thing.

I think I would stop and restring, the audience would understand.

Going out of tune is trickier. Most professionals will adjust their fingering until the end of the movement, but it makes double stopping (especially with open strings) very challenging. Not sure what I would do. If it was an exam, I would definitely stop and start again.

I've also seen performances where the orchestra had difficulty keeping up...if they're pros then they should be able to, if not then the tempo should have been sorted in the rehearsal. It's the conductor's responsibility.

If a string breaks you are at perfect liberty to stop and replace it with a new string.

If a string goes badly out of tune - to the point where it is sagging or is impossible to play on - then again, you could stop and sort it out. Ensuring your tuning pegs are in good condition is essential before playing a solo work, so a slipping peg shouldn't happen at all!

If you are playing your concerto with a community orchestra there's a risk something may go wrong on their part and two sections drift out of phase, but no professional orchestra would suffer this problem. Likewise with the orchestra speeding up, or an orchestra not being able to keep with you - it just wouldn't happen with a professional orchestra - and no conductor would ever change the tempo from that rehearsed.

If you miss your entry, just come in as soon as you can!! Concentration and knowledge of the work should prevent this.

If you have a momentary lapse of memory, just join in again when you reach a part that you do remember. Intense knowledge of the work and muscle memory should help. I've known of good soloists having a sudden bout of nerves and walk onto the stage thinking they can't even remember the first line of the work they are playing! It is not an issue confined to the lesser player I can promise you! If you think your memory is going to let you down, don't be afraid of having the music on a stand in front of you - better safe than sorry!

Hmmm I've known this happen...with a 3 min plus tutti at the start of the Beethoven, there's not a lot you can do if the conductor is taking it bit faster than you want !!!

I have also known it happen!

The clip to which this refers has been removed from Our Tube due to "copyright infringement"

b

Mine too

Or possibly "Embarrassment infringement"

I think we'll see more clips being removed from YouTube now due to copyright - they've been bought by Google, so are worth sueing....

That's interesting cos I spotted a few only yesterday that shouldn't be on there. I have already notified the copyright owner

Oh wow - I'm glad I got to see this whilst it was there! What a rude woman, that was a shocking performance. It was all over the place too, she wasn't pleasant to listen to! It's a shame she couldn't translate her rage into her playing, which would have made for a really passionate performance.

I had to watch my favourite video of Jacqueline du Pre playing the Elgar after this.....that sends shivers up my spine every time I hear it, because of the *controlled* passion with which she plays. If that video ever gets removed from YouTube I shall probably cry

Oh good, then it's not just me - I put on the CD of her playing .

Listening to it again, I suspect Pinky fell for her more for looks than for musicality....

Regarding performance etiquette - one of the finalists in the Leeds Piano Competition this year came in half a bar or so late at a very obvious point. They were back together after five seconds, and although he was visibly a little shaken for the rest of the movement it was still a brilliant performance; brilliant to the point where despite this, he finished 3rd .

There are COUNTLESS videos on there with copyright implications, even Disney clips - usually ultra-protective on their copyright. Even some clips of actual Disney movies. Then of course, things YAP would never accept for the recordings site like performances of Finzi, Sparke etc. There is also a very young clarinettist playing some Disney playalong tunes that people keep seeming to enjoy, but still, it's copyright.

That said, Elgar is now 70 years out of copyright, so that should have remained, surely.

Neil, it wouldn't be the copyright of the music per se that got the clip pulled.

That's a professional orchestra, a professional conductor and (allegedly) a professional soloist, being recorded by a professional camera and sound crew.

Unless all those people gave their permission for that recording to be there, the copyright in the recording has been breached - even though Elgar's own copyright hasn't.

Well, this may not help their career. Members of professional orchestras in the UK are soon going to be able to "rate" conductors via a questionaire after a performance. It's been common practice in the US for some time and it's now found its way to the UK.

In return, conductors have been asking whether they will be allowed to "rate" the orchestra they conduct, but it doesn't work like that, after all, we're the ones doing the hard graft,...... that person standing on the podium waving a baton at us has been warned.........

Didn't Jackie du Pre famously have a string slippage in her first recital?

I'm incredibly curious as to what this woman did, now - I missed the vid

Everyone else on this thread has done the sensible thing and retired for the night, so you'll have to make do with my (very inexpert) explanation until the morning

I caught the clip and she did behave appallingly. I'm no cellist, and I don't know the piece well enough, so I can't say whether it was her or the orchestra at fault. But whoever's fault it was didn't excuse her conduct. At one point she stopped the performance and got up to go and discuss the score with the conductor. Then she started playing again but she still wasn't happy and when there was a few bars' rest, she spun the cello on its axis, looking thunderous whilst she was doing it. Think children throwing their toys out of the pram in a display of temper. And all the time she was scowling and rolling her eyes and generally having a bit of tantrum. It was what you might call good television, but inexcusable all the same from a so-called professional musician.

Good grief, how childish of her!

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity.....

If her behaviour is as bad as it appears from your comments (I didn't see it) then it would appear most child performers know better! I know I did at 11.....

She stopped, retuned the string and started from the beginning of the piece again. She said that it helped reduce her nerves, because the audience were feeling a bit of sympathy for her

I wish I could have seen it - I feel deprived!

I think that the reason for video being removed might have been for other reasons than copyright as it only lasted about 5 minutes, which might be deemed to be "fair use" (especially for orchestras thinking of working with her!).

Apparently the orchestra management, players, and conductor were all very upset about Ms. Forsyth's behavior. I heard that she left the final rehearsal in the middle of the concerto in a huff, having informed the orchestra that it was the worst orchestra she had ever heard. They weren't sure if she was going to show up for the performance. Apparently the orchestra refused to pay her, so I imagine that will not be the end of the matter. It would have been interesting to hear her version of events.



After watching the clip I also had to watch the Jacqueline du Pre version. What a huge difference between the two performers. I just couldn't imagine Jacqueline du Pre behaving in such a manner.


Thanks everyone (especially AmandaL) for your advice about what to do when problems occur.

How long ago was all this?

I went to a Steven Isserlis concert a couple of years ago. I was sitting very close to the stage. Half-way through Beethoven 1, his D-string suddenly snapped. He rolled his eyes, threw his string over his shoulder and went on playing, jumping from A to G, backwards and forwards. It was incredible - and to make it even more incredible, his accompanist (who was good - I forget who it was, but a fairly big name) hadn't even noticed! That's the sort of thing that separates the good and the best...

Wow, that must be amazing to watch! But what would happen if the G string(lol, no pun) broke?

Most of you will remember Nicola Benedetti's problems with her chin rest in the Young Musician of the year, and how well she coped with it ! And it happened twice!

I remember someone else in the BBC Young Musician final (Guy Johnson, I think) who had a string snap just into the Shostakovich Cello Concerto. He went off calmly and re-strung, and came back and played magnificantly. And he won.

He'd play on the C string (cellist)...now if the C string broke he'd have to use subharmonics I suppose

Steven Isserlis rocks, I saw him in concert a very long time ago and his playing was magnificent, and one could tell from his interaction with the orchestra that he was working really well with them. He played a wonderful little encore which was all pizz and sounded like about 6 cellists playing counterpoint! excellent stuff.

I agree, I think he's a wonderful cellist. I've seen him many times, and he is never less than exceptional. I think the piece you're referring to is called Chonguri - great piece! Also, his CD of the Brahms cello sonatas (fairly recent) is absolutely fantastic. I'd recommend it to anyone!

Oooh, I'll have to look for it - he introduced it by saying "you won't have heard of this and you won't have heard of the composer, so I'm just going to play it!". If I had been a bit older at the time I would have asked him afterward! I have wondered ever since. Thanks

If you can't find it, PM me- I can hunt out the music, I have it somewhere, and can give you more details.
Sorry for hijacking the thread!

Just to say, for those of you who are interested, the original video in question is still available on the internet, just not at youtube!

I have downloaded a copy of it, after it got pulled off of youtube from a cello forum.

you might try googling her name and elgar, to see and then clicking on "I cant believe she got paid" post.

Hope this helps.

Kraz

I have tried to find it but without success. I suppose that every soloist has bad moments though. In times past poor performances and behavior would have been seen by the members of the audience only and forgotten eventually, but now they are recorded and available to all. I feel rather sorry for her because of this. She must have her merits as a player and performer to have achieved what she has, and now she will be known for her behavior at that concert rather than for her other and presumably far better moments.

I think I found that cello forum you refer to but it seems taken down from everywhere. It was a shocking performance and it's not surprising the lengths they went to to get it out the public view. I even saw on another site she is one of the best cellists in North America.

Ok sorry, I was a bit unspecific in where to find it, wasn't sure if I could post the direct link, put I'll give it now.

The link is
http://p078.ezboard.com/fcellofuncellochat...ic&index=73

Click on the link on the page, hopefully that will work.

Kraz

*jane feeling gutted*

In 2 weeks time I was all set to go to Washington to see Slava and Maxim play the Shostakovich.

Unfortunately Slava is ill so they have both cancelled. The Kennedy Centre say they will honour my tickets for the replacement concert of Pinky conducting and his tantrum throwing wife playing the cello. Completely different performance, no Shosti in sight.

Needless to say I will NOT be travelling all the way to the US for that (3 times!!). Desperately trying to get my money back!

<sob>

I just hope Slava is OK though, it's very worrying!

Oh no! Poor Jane. You mean as a replacement, you got the woman in the video? Ergh..

Yes...Just glad they emailed me before I got there!!! I would've been fuming.

I have been to concerts before where there has been a replacement and no notice given. Once went all the way to Paris to see Maxim and got Nikolaj Znaider (who is really rather good, so that was OK). Only found out when we got there. However some people sitting near us hadn't realised, and with my limited French I understood them to say that they "never realised Vengerov was so tall". To this day they probably think they saw Maxim

[size=7]I would love to see a copy of it if someone has it!!! Missed it and am morbidly curious!!! Please email me!

Slava is getting on in years and was / has been cancelling concerts since last year.