Does anyone have a short simple answer to the question Give the full meaning of the lower number of this time signature in the AB Guide to 1 Music Theory in Practice book Grade 1. My pupil who is 9 answered: two beats out of four or three beats out of four. it's the right idea but not strictly correct. But I am trying to think of a concise answer. Would it be correct to say that it represents a semibreve and that the time signature is a fraction of a semibreve?
My pupil who is studying for her Grade 2 piano having got distinction in her Grade 1 is a bright girl and so I don't want her to go away confused.
Full Version: Time Signatures
I'd guess if they're specifically asking for the meaning of the lower number, you would say something like it refers to the "type of beat" (the number of beats being indicated by the top number). If it was 2/4 time, the lower number would represent crotchet beats - the 4 indicating a quarter of a semibreve.
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Are you familiar with the American terms of whole note (semi-breve), quarter note (crotchet) etc? I find this helps my pupils understand what the lower no. indicates.
QUOTE(parkere @ Oct 13 2006, 01:23 PM) 
Are you familiar with the American terms of whole note (semi-breve), quarter note (crotchet) etc? I find this helps my pupils understand what the lower no. indicates.
this really helps
i start by explaining that and then draw a diagram showing a semibreve at the top, then subdivide it into two minims, and then four crotchets below that and eight quavers below that. i think it helps them to see why 2 = minims (because there are two per semibreve) and so on with crotchets and quavers.
edited to add: just realised that i didn't really answer your question. sorry!
i tell my pupils, like amanda, that the short answer to that particular question is that the bottom number indicates the 'type' of beat, eg. crotchet, minim, depending on the example used.
Mine, the little ones anyway, remember this way: "The top number tells you how many beats in every bar, the lower number tells you what sort of beats they are." Anything over 4 = crotchet beats, anything over 2 =minim beats, and anything over 8 = quaver beats. Then explain about 6/8 time being two dotted crotchet beats in a bar.
QUOTE(petrat @ Oct 14 2006, 09:46 PM)
Mine, the little ones anyway, remember this way: "The top number tells you how many beats in every bar, the lower number tells you what sort of beats they are." Anything over 4 = crotchet beats, anything over 2 =minim beats, and anything over 8 = quaver beats. Then explain about 6/8 time being two dotted crotchet beats in a bar.
All of mine (little or otherwise) learn this way - it's the way I learn and the simplest I've come across yet!
QUOTE(SuzyMac @ Oct 15 2006, 07:01 PM)
QUOTE(petrat @ Oct 14 2006, 09:46 PM)
Mine, the little ones anyway, remember this way: "The top number tells you how many beats in every bar, the lower number tells you what sort of beats they are." Anything over 4 = crotchet beats, anything over 2 =minim beats, and anything over 8 = quaver beats. Then explain about 6/8 time being two dotted crotchet beats in a bar.
All of mine (little or otherwise) learn this way - it's the way I learn and the simplest I've come across yet!
And mine
QUOTE(noodle @ Oct 16 2006, 10:44 PM)
I think at grade 1 it's enough for them to say the bottom number refers to the type of beat.
When I'm teaching this, I start off with a small rectangle drawn in their notebook. I tell them it's a bar of chocolate to get their attention.
Then I show them 3/4 of the chocolate and tell them that the chocolate has been cut into 4 parts and they are getting 3 of them. I go back to the 3/4 time signature and show them how the semibreve is divided into 4 parts which are crotchets and there are three of them in every bar. Then I do the same with 3/8 of chocolate and semibreve to see if they have really grasped it!Sorry if I haven't explained this very well - I'm too tired to be articulate!
I like that idea Noodle..and am sure the kids will love it too. Especially if I can incorporate real chocs somewhere in the equation?
That's if I don't eat them all first!
QUOTE(miochy @ Oct 16 2006, 11:09 PM)
QUOTE(noodle @ Oct 16 2006, 10:44 PM)
I think at grade 1 it's enough for them to say the bottom number refers to the type of beat.
When I'm teaching this, I start off with a small rectangle drawn in their notebook. I tell them it's a bar of chocolate to get their attention.
Then I show them 3/4 of the chocolate and tell them that the chocolate has been cut into 4 parts and they are getting 3 of them. I go back to the 3/4 time signature and show them how the semibreve is divided into 4 parts which are crotchets and there are three of them in every bar. Then I do the same with 3/8 of chocolate and semibreve to see if they have really grasped it!Sorry if I haven't explained this very well - I'm too tired to be articulate!
I like that idea Noodle..and am sure the kids will love it too. Especially if I can incorporate real chocs somewhere in the equation?
That's if I don't eat them all first!
That's a great idea
One day I used pennies and 2p pieces to help explain crotchets and minims to someone very young (how many pennies/crotchets they could give me for a 2p/minim). It worked very well, only now I have to get them to stop referring to "four pennies to a bar" when I ask them the time sig. 
There are 8 squares in a giant dairy milk... That would divide up well - 1 square equals a quaver! Like Mitch though... I'd end up eating the virtual "semibreve" before the pupil arrived
xxxx
QUOTE(amanda41 @ Oct 17 2006, 11:55 AM)
QUOTE(miochy @ Oct 16 2006, 11:09 PM)
QUOTE(noodle @ Oct 16 2006, 10:44 PM)
I think at grade 1 it's enough for them to say the bottom number refers to the type of beat.
When I'm teaching this, I start off with a small rectangle drawn in their notebook. I tell them it's a bar of chocolate to get their attention.
Then I show them 3/4 of the chocolate and tell them that the chocolate has been cut into 4 parts and they are getting 3 of them. I go back to the 3/4 time signature and show them how the semibreve is divided into 4 parts which are crotchets and there are three of them in every bar. Then I do the same with 3/8 of chocolate and semibreve to see if they have really grasped it!Sorry if I haven't explained this very well - I'm too tired to be articulate!
I like that idea Noodle..and am sure the kids will love it too. Especially if I can incorporate real chocs somewhere in the equation?
That's if I don't eat them all first!
That's a great idea
One day I used pennies and 2p pieces to help explain crotchets and minims to someone very young (how many pennies/crotchets they could give me for a 2p/minim). It worked very well, only now I have to get them to stop referring to "four pennies to a bar" when I ask them the time sig. There are 8 squares in a giant dairy milk... That would divide up well - 1 square equals a quaver! Like Mitch though... I'd end up eating the virtual "semibreve" before the pupil arrived
xxxx
At what grade can I start to talk about demisemiquavers...yum yum!
I have a lovely set of musical dominoes. Unlike the common spotted ones, instead of matching a six to a six, you can match two quaver notes, or two quaver rests, for instance, to a crotchet note, or crotchet rest.
It gets them thinking and adding up values. Good for adults too.
It gets them thinking and adding up values. Good for adults too.
QUOTE(noodle @ Oct 17 2006, 09:31 PM)
I don't know. Surely a demisemiquaver would only be worth a crumb of chocolate!
Well.... you'd have to buy a bar of chocolate with 32 pieces.
8 pieces for quavers
16 for semi's
and a whopping 32 piece bar for discussing demi's
*runs off to woolies to buy one...oops it's closed. Try tomorrow*
i usually explain by saying this...
if its 4/4 then we refer to american terms and a crotchet (quarter-note) is a 1/4 note, then take the 1 off top and put 4 then u get 4 quarter notes or crotchets per bar, hence 4/4
if its 4/4 then we refer to american terms and a crotchet (quarter-note) is a 1/4 note, then take the 1 off top and put 4 then u get 4 quarter notes or crotchets per bar, hence 4/4
QUOTE(noodle @ Oct 17 2006, 10:52 PM)
QUOTE(miochy @ Oct 17 2006, 10:43 PM)
QUOTE(noodle @ Oct 17 2006, 09:31 PM)
I don't know. Surely a demisemiquaver would only be worth a crumb of chocolate!
Well.... you'd have to buy a bar of chocolate with 32 pieces.
8 pieces for quavers
16 for semi's
and a whopping 32 piece bar for discussing demi's
*runs off to woolies to buy one...oops it's closed. Try tomorrow*
Forgotten about the good old 24 hour Tesco...knew they would come in handy one day!
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