Hi,
I created another thread in the General Music Forum, and people agreed that it would be a good idea to explore a different composer per week.

We'll be going in chronological order, and our first composer is this chap:



Thomas Tallis

Do you know anything about him? Please post below.

I am especially interested in:
- Era he composed in
- Styles he wrote in
- Names of famous pieces
- How to recognise some Tallis music if I heard it
- His birth/death dates
- Any other significant dates during his life
- Was he early/middle/late of the era?

Note, I do not want a huge biography. I have to be remember these, so I need short, sharp facts. I don't need to know what his pet dog was called or how he liked his hair

So, on your marks, get set, GO

He wrote one of my all-time favourite pieces, the wonderful 40-part motet 'Spem in Alium'. The score in itself is quite something to look at, let alone sing! (I believe the Kings Singers recently recorded it - six of them multi-tracked! ). I'm sure there are people on the forum who have sung it (I know Bagpuss has).

I do have more info about Tallis but will post later - have to go out now.

Good luck with this, Nicki - cracking idea. Am looking forward to learning lots too!

Great picture! He composed in the 16th cent and is often calles the Father of English Church Music.
He could be called a master of polyphony. He was much respected by the royals and wrote in the reigns of four Monarchs: Henry VIII, Edward VI, Mary and Elizabeth I. He was a Catholic and a leading light in the Chapel Royal. One of his most famous works is the 40part motet, Spem in Alium.

Tallis changed the way he composed as the political and religious climate changed in England.

So, before the reformation you get big gorgeous works like "Spem in Alium" - which is a MUST LISTEN, and a MUST SING if you get the chance.

After, you get much plainer, but still beautiful, works like "If ye love me" - which some folks here sang in the choir at the first Woodford concert.

His composing career fits roughly into the middle 50 years of the 16th century, and he served in various places (ncluding Waltham Abbey) and saw much change in the style and standing of church music in England.

The 40 part motet is sublime (voices are grouped into 8 x 5-part choirs) - apparently someone else wrote a 40 part motet too which is much less well known than TT's - I can't remember which was written first - does anyone else know ?

Tallis is reckoned to have written the third mode melody on which Vaughan Williams wrote his Fantasia.

People might find this useful for Spem in Alium - http://www.brightonconsort.org.uk/midis/ot...em_in_alium.htm

Can someone explain what a motet is?

motet - a work for choir, usually unaccompanied.

He taught William Byrd . If you want to tie music in with your History studies, have a look at Catholocism around that time, and how people who were well-in with the powers that be managed to have sneaky services .

Tallis and William Byrd were granted a license by Elizabeth 1 to print music. I learnt that his dated were 1510 to 1585 but there is some doubt about his birthdate now. Some put it at 1505.
Just a quick addition: The comment about the printing license was too brief to make any sense really, but if you tie it in with your history about the church reforms it will make more sense and make for fascinating reading.

TT didn't just compose choral music, though that is great. He played the organ for over 50 years, so must have written an incredible amount for that instrument. Only 23 pieces are known about - 18 of them are in The Mulliner Book.

John Day, Barnard & Boyce (3 vols of Catholic music - 1760/68/73) placed his works first in their anthologies of English Church Music - shows his importance.

His life spanned that of 4 monarchs which included Henry VIII (with the dissolution of the monasteries), Edward VI, Mary (who re-established Catholicism) and Elizabeth I.

This is quite important as to the type of music he was allowed (and others at that time were allowed) to compose. See Katyjay's post above. The intricate polyphony of Catholicism (such as Spem) was banned after the dissolution when Protestant music had to be simpler and Latin was banned. However Tallis for some reason was allowed to continue writing in this style without forfeit.

He wrote, with William Byrd, the Cantiones Sacrae (1575) dedicated to Queen Elizabeth, which is an important piece of Latin Church music.


This is why the Cantiones Sacrae were dedicated to her, as a thanks.

And a little ditty from Spike (Milligan)

Thomas Tallis
Bore no man any malice
Save an organist called Ken
Who played his music rather badly now and then.

So, he wrote both secular and sacred music (according to which monarch) and also some organ music?

Yes...good summary, but the Protestant non Latin stuff was also sacred, just for a "simpler" church. And he wrote the polyphonic Latin stuff alongside this (possibly in secret). Now what were those Catholics called that were in hiding, the ones that had Priest holes hidden in their homes, and had Catholic services in their homes in secret? After 1585 it was Treason to house a Catholic Priest in England. Tallis wrote stuff for these to use in theor secret worship and was most likely one himself.

*goes to look*

Ahhhh...Recusants

Another interesting site

Tallis was a church organist and musician at various places in England throughout his adult life and most of his output of music, (choral and organ works) was written for church use. He had to adapt his style according to the wishes and desires of the monarch of the time and was a versatile and able composer and well equipped to do this. He did not have to write secular works as a part of his duties as an employee of the monarch but he was probably asked to write secular works for the Tudor court, He is best known as a composer of sacred music and much of his music is still in regular use today.

So, what are the main characteristics of Tallis's music?

This is not the easiest thing to explain. It is rather like the difference between real diamonds and copies! Once you have heard some of Tallis' work you will recognize it again. Much of the sacred music is typical of the English choral tradition of the time, but better than the rest if you can see what I mean! Imagine the most inspirational of cathedral music, rich in harmonic content and with wonderful twists and turns of dissonance and the most angelic of melodies interwoven and you are almost certainly listening to something by Thomas Tallis! If you can listen to some of his works you will understand something of his genius, and know it again when next you hear it.

Any particular pieces you recommend Petrat (as well as Spem of course)?

Of course there's the ubiquitous Tallis' Canon (much beloved of early tutor books ) - which is, if sung quite slowly and with great attention to intonation, quite beautiful.

Someone already mentioned the 'Third Mode Melody' which is in the Phrygian mode and was used by Vaughn Williams in his 'Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis'. My Intermediate group started singing this in four parts last week and just found it SO scrummy (so did their teacher ).

Tallis' setting was based upon an English version of the Psalm 'Why fumeth in sight' by Bishop Parker and exemplified the new Reformation ideal (Council of Trent) of one word syllable to one note (ie not melismatic). Tallis' original version has the melody in the tenor part. (I have the English words if anyone is interested). This piece shows that Tallis was more than able to meet the strict demands of the Reformation yet at the same time produce music of sublime yet simple beauty. Tallis' Canon is another of these Psalm settings - the others are worth investigating too!

(With many thanks to David Vinden for some of this information).

Tallis

(not Petrat - sorry!) ...
Loquebantur variis linguis is marvellous imho

Vaughan Williams used some of his music for the "Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis". Apparently it was the third of nine tunes Tallis composed in 1567 as part of a psalter for the first Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury, Matthew Parker.

Well, apart from Spem I would try the Lamentations of Jerimiah amd Salvator Mundi. I have a very fine recording of these with the Kings College Choir and it is well worth adding to everyone's Christmas list.

In many ways, Byrd and Tallis are some of the last composers of English music from that time - as is our won't, we shortly after imported a German chap under the name 'Handel' and announced that he wrote in the English style....

I went into college today, and the composer of the week on the noticeboard was... Tallis!

Most of the facts already mentioned here were there. Apparently he was rather a perfectionist, and would spend ages on his compositions to ensure they were exactly right.

Hehe, spooky, eh?

Have you managed to listen to anything yet Nicki-Flute? If so what do you think?

I listened to the Spem piece, and I've downloaded a few more. I do like it, but I am going to do a big mind map and listening session soon!

Listen with closed eyes and imagine yourself in a massive cathedral.

I actually, do really like the music, very pure

Definitely music to calm the mind at the end of a busy day. Have we given you enough facts about him now?

Well, I'd love any more

There is a theory that Tallis wrote the massive 40 part Spem in Alium as a birthday tribute to Queen Elizabeth for her fortieth birthday. I think that he wanted to write something for a larger body of voices than would usually have been heard in the English cathedrals at the time, and also that he wanted to leave it as a memorial to himself. It is about five hundred years since his birth, and still his music is used in the church today.

Sorry, nicki, not really more info but I've used this music with children at school for many years. For some reason they respond really well to it and always seem to love it. I've had several who have gone off and badgered their somewhat bemused parents into buying them a CD with it on!

Initially I get them to close their eyes and just let images, words and ideas come into their minds which we then share.

I have a set of fantastic poems written by Year 4 children several years ago (can't put my hand on them, sadly, as they're in one of the boxes of stuff that I cleared out of Horrible School in July...). If I find them soon I'll post one or two.

I was doing this last February with Year 6. As usual they responded really well to the music and loved it. We discussed their ideas and they were coming out with excellent observations of the music as well as descriptive phrases, adjectives and imagery. I suggested that they should start to write down some of the things they had been saying. Dutifully books were taken out, the date and title written, then -
'Yes, Amelia?'
'What's the learning intention?'
'AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH does EVERYTHING you do have to have a 'learning intention'???'
'Yes because otherwise we don't know what we're learning.'

I despair, I really despair. Where is the joy, the voyage of discovery and exploration that education used to be about???

Two days later I was chatting to two girls from that class. One said, 'Do YOUR lessons have learning intentions?' I replied, 'What do you think?' The answer from the other? (After some thought..) 'Yes, they do - but yours are hidden!'

So - apologies for the digression - but I was so incensed/upset/bemused/unhappy that 10 and 11 year-olds could not just LISTEN to a beautiful piece of music such as 'Spem in Alium' and respond to it instinctively and creatively without having to know in advance WHAT they were going to 'learn' from it???

Oh, how frustrating! Like now in our school we have a big whiteboard and then another one to write the learning objectives on

Oh Cyrilla! surely nothing is more likely to kill enthusiasm than " now today we are going to learn ..."

Nicki - my Treasury of Engish Church Music says that Tallis lost none of his zest for life and worked well into old age: when he was nearly 70 he published a collection of Latin motets in collaboration with a younger colleague, and was a gentleman of the chapel royal for at least 45 years. It mentions the following -

O nata lux
In ieiunio et fletu
Audivi media nocte
Five part Te Deum
Evening canticles (magnificat and nunc dimittis) from the short service

Quite! And people wonder why there are so many disaffected, bored and uninspired children and young people at school...



Apologies again for hijacking the thread, Nicki. I had lots of info on my precious Spem in Alium recording but again I can't find it because it's in a box of stuff from Horrible School...sorry.

Reminds me ... I have an old recording of the Spem - (otherwise known as spam with garlic) - will see if there's anything useful on it.

Thanks everyone for your help

I like it. You won't forget that now, Nicki!

Heheh, hope not!

Anyone got a recommended recording of Spem in Alium by the way?

Probably more than one - will look out recordings and see if there's a front runner.
There's a good recording by The Sixteen ( don't laugh! ) which I heard on the radio a couple of years ago. The announcer added "and friends presumably" to the credits.

I think I might have mentioned it earlier but I know the King's Singers (all six of them) have fairly recently recorded it - what a feat of multi-tracking!



My version is very good but for the life of me I can't remember who it's sung by...all I can remember is that there was Albrecht Durer's self-portrait (?) on the front. Not a lot of help, sorry!

You can't go far wrong with the Tallis Scholars.

(Maybe the Sixteen had to double track plus Harry quadruple tracking a part!)

Thanks folks.

I did think the Tallis Scholars one might be a good start!

Just found something which says he was born in Leicestershire

I am doing a little grid about him, and compiling a playlist of his stuff

http://hsa.albertlea.k12.mn.us/humanities/Music10.html

http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Thomas_Tallis - Has scores/midi files of a lot of his work!

*looks at score for Spem* !

The Sixteen recording is fantastic - it's in SACD, so if you have a surround sound player it's even better, as you can really hear the inter-weaving of each part. I believe it was recorded with all the singers spaced quite far apart and the sound moves around the room... quite something else!

Sounds amazing! I have to say, I REALLY like his Music, just been reading up about the Spem

I might start a new composer (Renaissance) tonight - who would people suggest?

I am glad that you are getting addicted to Tallis. When you get to know something of the life and times of a composer it brings a whole new meaning to it I think. Do you want another English composer or doesn't it matter? How about Gabrielli? In fact how about the two of them, Andrea and Giovanni? They were uncle and nephew.

Well, I would like a well known composer, I don't know, Monteverdi or Bryd or Tavener or someone like that

The next logical step would be William Byrd, but Monteverdi is more fun! Gabrielli was an important composer though, and had some interesting ideas about the use of chromaticism, still quite a new idea then.