I am just wondering if one wants to be music teacher at a secondary school in the UK, what qualification(s) does he need to hold? Does one needs to hold the PGCE (not sure if the abbreviation is right, but something like teaching certificate)? Can I teach for just holding the lowest diploma and not specialising in music at university? Can one choose which level to teach up to (ie, KS3, GCSE, AS, A2) or will the school assign for him?

Has anyone got any ideas??

Thanks,

maTThew

You will need a music degree and a PGCE, as far as I know. Anything less wouldn't give you the necesaary knowledge for teaching to A-level in a secondary school. Also, when you teach in a state secondary school you can't pick and choose what level you teach to; all qualified teachers have to teach from Year 7 right through to Year 13. It may be different in the private sector - I don't know.

Violinia

i see, thanks for the information!

maTThew

In addition to the academic qualifications you will also need

1 Quick reflexes
2 Eyes in the back of your head
3 Stab proof vest

I teach privately and would never teach in the state system because of the spineless wonders who administer education Not all schools are like this but the ones in my area East London are

Just a small addendum to the above: in some areas secondary schools only go up to Year 11, with Sixth Form colleges dealing with A levels. So it is quite possible to teach just to GCSE in those schools.

Perhaps not quite so extreme, but be prepared for some severe bad manners and downright insulting behaviour.

Just to say there are some state schools who will take teachers without PGCEs but the pay is not good as you go onto the non-qualified teacher scale.

I have similar qualifications to yourself and taught in a state primary last year for a pittance, covering for PPA time. I had to stick pretty rigidly to the curriculum. It was fun and good for my CV but hard work. I noticed a local secondary school was also advertising for a music teacher who need not have Qualified Teacher Status. Once again the pay was poor and I suspect there would be little autonomy as it said in the advert that the lessons were all prepared for you. So it is possible to get a job in a school without a PCGE, but ideally you should aim to get qualified so that you can work in schools and be paid what you deserve. I was planning to do this when I landed a job in an independent school with a much better salary, so that's on hold for the moment.

Good luck!!

Heehee, that amused me - then again my music teacher did appear on stage to sing wearing what looked rather like a stab proof vest the other day. Last time i saw her she had a year 9 shooting at her behind with a staple gun. Being a music teacher is certainly a dangerous job!!

Apart from not being qualified to teach school music, having to stick rigidly to the curriculum is one very good reason (amongst others) why I wouldn't want to teach in a school. Todays curriculum in most subjects simply covers the bare essentials required to get through an exam - no doubt to make government figures look good - but rarely encourages students to 'think outside the box'. Learning should be an adventure and a discovery, not a follow by rote example.

No wonder so many youngsters in state schools lack imagination and the ability to construct ideas for themselves - other than criminal activities for some.

...and nobody is "allowed" to discipline them these days . Another reason why I would never want to be a school teacher.

One can only wonder (in horror) what society will be like in another twenty years when all of these yobs are in their 30s!

I don't want to know, but unless I meet a tragic early death I will

"Todays curriculum in most subjects simply covers the bare essentials required to get through an exam - no doubt to make government figures look good - but rarely encourages students to 'think outside the box'. Learning should be an adventure and a discovery, not a follow by rote example.

No wonder so many youngsters in state schools lack imagination and the ability to construct ideas for themselves - other than criminal activities for some."

Really feel I have to step in and defend secondary school music teachers at this point. To say that the curriculum does not encourage pupils to 'think outside of the box' is a strange statement - what curriculum is this, and can you give an example?

It is up to teachers to take whatever is being taught and make it into an adventure of discovery. Have you seen the work that pupils perform in school? The imagination young people have is outstanding and can be seen in evidence daily. My teacher training was fantastic, off the wall, unexpected fun.. I thought I was going to have to go away and devise my own methods for capturing the spirit of fun in the classroom - but these methods were made widely available to all trainees, they were encouraged and evidenced by those teachers whose classrooms I worked in during my ITT year.

When I think back to my own teachers when I was at school 10+ years ago - yes there was a presence of the old school teaching that I think you are reffering to. These methodologies are dead and dying. Maybe there will always be poor teaching, this is due to the teacher and not the curriculum . . . but there will always be amazing teaching!!

When you make sweeping statements about the quality of teaching then you include my work and that of the pupils I teach.

Doesn't every generation say that about the previous one ?

There is room for 'thinking outside the box' in the curriculum, but so often it is the students who make that impossible through thier bad behaviour. (Not all, but 1 or 2 in each class can do an awful lot). Often the only way to get a lot of people in my year to actually do some work is to inform them they may require it for the test. I think this has gone on long enough that we are now simply being taught the test in subjects such as maths, english and science. Certainly in some foreign language lessons that is true, and it is driving me mad.

great post AmandaL.

A bit of a generalisation, but how much truth there is in there - wow!!!
I don't think you are putting any personal slur on individual teachers in any way. There are good teachers, inspiring etc, but it's tough work.

I would go along with almost all you say - having taught for long enough. Not how it used to be.
Rosemary is right too, it's just a few who spoil the whole system

Speaking as a current thirtysomething, I'd guess that in twenty years' time, things won't be alot different to now. When I was at school, there were a few people who could be guaranteed to mess around, disrupt the class, and generally waste time, and these are the ones who are now stuck in dead-end menial jobs. The swotty ones who behaved, did their homework and got involved in other aspects of school life are the ones who are teachers, doctors, high-ranking army officers etc.

yes you are probably right mostly.
But there has been a 'social' change - in attitudes. When I went to school the expectation was that I went to learn. That doesn't seem to be there to the same extent now. There seemed to be more respect for others (and others' property) - if education is a right (?), then the pupil has a responsibility not to throw it away.
Parents have different expectations, society has different expectations etc

But we will get off topic too easily as we correct the world

"great post AmandaL.

A bit of a generalisation"...

Maybe I could now make a sweeping statement about the state of the National Health Service - I know nothing about the medical profession other than what I see on the news and hear through snippets of conversations, I am sure there are people in that profession who are worth their weight in gold but - hey, you know what ~I am gonna just wade right in here - beacuse I can.... .. . Oops, sorry wrong room.

I am not going to argue with you Rosemary as I see you are still at school yourself - I assumed you were a teacher.. can't think why...

Trying here not to be pulled off topic --
you will need to find out some of it for yourself, but I think you have been given the basics: music abilitiy, inspiration, hard work, endurance and stamina, discipline

and the degrees of each of those will vary depending on where you teach, schools vary and it is hard to be totally specific. In fact of course the enthusiasm, importance and funding different Heads will give to music varies too.
If you feel it's for you, check it out with your nearest schools then go for it!!

What I never did understand - and I taught secondary school music for several years - is why the national curriculm insists on requiring composition when there is no way that most of them are ever going to learn a musical instrument, when the teaching of standard notation is regarded as very low priority and when all that they listen to is electronic rhythm. It's like trying to teach a child to write stories when he can't read yet. And that's why it doesn't work - few children have any idea at all of how to compose a melody because they have no idea what a melody is, let alone how to play one.

Liz

When I tried and failed to get a PGCE in secondary music, it was not the National Curriculum that was the problem (although it did mean you could never study anything in depth, it was all too superficial) it was the fact that most of lessons were spent in Riot Control.

I had to make sure I had tripped some of thr trip switches so that people couldn't just come in a jam on electric guitars. Keep the Drum Sticks in a locked draw. Just so I could deliver my introduction to the lesson. In another school the equiptment was so lousy that I spent more time as a technician than as a teacher.

The curriculum for GCSE does allow for students to "think outside the box" especially where composition was concerned. They can challenge themselves as far as performance is concerned, but do need to be disciplined in the listening test. There is no need to notate compositions as long as a recording is provided.

As for the pre-requisites you can teach as a licenced teacher, but it is preperavble to get QTS via hwichever route you can.

Enthusiasm
Nerves of steel
The ability to control a riot
The abilty to take verbal abuse off pupils

are all necessary.

I love teaching privately one-on-one as I tend to get pupils who want to learn and I have the time to sort out their idiosyncracies. This is not the case with State-Secondary Education.

You can teach in an Independent School without QTS, but they do want Graduates.

Perhaps I'm just getting old but I do feel the ability gap has been widened by poor parenting and lack of self control. some of those disrupting class now will not be able to cope with a job unless they get help. Even ten years ago there wasn't the teen binge drinking culture that exists today.

Rosemary you sound alot like my eldest who gets thoroughly fed up with the idiots in her school which incidently is quite strict relatively. I'm not meaning to be sexist but some of the boys in my youngests class seem very young for going on 12.

Perhaps because this is the teachers forum? I'll go away if you want me to......



They don't grow up any more by the time they reach GCSE. I wonder how some will manage when (if) they get a job. Which is a shame, because if you get one on thier own and talk to them they can be quite intelligent. They just can't sit and learn, or at least sit quietly and let others learn.

Riot control just about sums it up where practical is concerned. Fine sat at desks, got them into the drum room and they were wild. And me not much older than them, trying to 'teach' them.

Lots of sense in those posts in my view.

National Curr. IS limiting in some ways and superficial
--- and I guess the reason is because it's a political ploy.

Too often it is a matter of (almost) Riot control...

No teacher should have to take verbal abuse, but it happens far too much.

And some of it of course is down to parents' attitudes too.

And don't go away Rosemary, it's good to hear your view of it.

The view from the other side of the desk??

Literal riot control is not uncommon, but sheer bad manners meaning it take 1/4 of a lesson to take the register is normal. You're lucky if the task gets explained in that time as well.

hear hear!

Especially the last one. It's really useful to have the perspective from someone who is still at school and is able to articulate theor viewpoint so eloquently.

*blushes*


Thanks.

[quote name='jod' date='Oct 24 2006, 04:52 PM' post='412612']
[/quote]

hear hear!

Especially the last one. It's really useful to have the perspective from someone who is still at school and is able to articulate theor viewpoint so eloquently.
[/quote]

thanks jod.

And I think I would go further and say that Rosemary sounds like the kind of 'Teen' that redeems youth from the bad name a few get it!!
Go on, Rosemary, blush ...

*blushes even more*

I could name quite a few who fit that description - mostly my friends.

I think I'd hate to be a teacher of any description at school. At GCSE Music, the abilities are polarised, you'll have those people who are Grade 5/6ish+, who know theory, can play well, understand notation, and then those who maybe don't know as much theory or notation. This means that often the latter find it hard, and so just can't be bothered and mess around. Also, I remember in Sociology GCSE, I got taunted because I hadn't gone binge drinking/smoked/had ###, the general ethos was that people didn't want to learn. When people don't want to learn, it just disrupts the whole lessons.

A Level is better, but you still get the odd moments.

I admire all those teachers though, who fight through the resistence, and are inspirational to others. Those which are the best, often gain respect from the pupils, I know, when both our History teachers left, students were genuinely sorry to see them go.

Bit of waffle, sorry!

I think you may be right because the 'others' (who get the bad reputation) are a minority
but it's great to hear from you Rosemary.
And there's another ... just posted.. Nicki-flute !!

But very true, in so many places!! So many people just don't want to learn, and they're so selfish that they can't let others learn... Often I think it would make a nice change to quietly stop chasing truants or to set by behaviour rather than abiltiy or not at all.

Not waffle at all Nicki

it is shameful that you were taunted for being nice!
The school authorities should have done something about it.

And I admire those teachers too.

Correct Rosemary, sometimes wonder why schools bother with the worst who don't WANT to work or take the privilege they are offered...

PC?? 'inclusion'?? Mindless Government Drivel?? (am I bordering on rebellion here I wonder? Oh well!) Sometimes I think the school would love to get rid of someone, put them in a special school where they belong, but they can't.

If anything, I find the National Curriculum vague (I don't know any teachers who don't!) - At least this means that it's not at all restrictive to the imaginative teacher.

Riot control just about sums it up where practical is concerned. Fine sat at desks, got them into the drum room and they were wild. And me not much older than them, trying to 'teach' them.

Ok, so I'm now confused (and it doesn't take much) - Why were you trying to 'teach' them?

I was doing work experience. Fine with just 2 or 3, half a class was a nightmare

I see.. work experience as what?

A music teacher/TA/head of department. Not really sure, but it was fun until then....

How bizarre!

???
Please explain why you find wanting to be a music teacher 'bizarre' - you've lost me



I do hope you are.

I rebel a lot, just quietly so everyone else can still learn I think he means that combination was bizarre. I must say it was quite entertaining.

Good for you, Rebel !

Rebel, or die of Boredom???? Not a hard choice. Wonder if my math teacher has looked at my coursework yet..

Yes that's a nice idea. I bet there would be a huge queue to teach the lowest set

liz

They'd have to take it in turns!!