That last thread gave me some ideas for this new one.

As i mentioned, i had a REALLY bad experience with accompanying a choir earlier this year. This is basically what happened, i got music, which was so easy that i thought i could just wing it so i practised it a few times the day before and made it fluent, but it wasnt familiar. But at this time, i had really bad problems with nerves so i got REALLY nervous, and it was fine when i started to play, but the moment they started singing, it started to fall apart, and no matter what i did to try and piece it together, it wouldnt work. I got three goes, and in the end, the conductor had to ask me to stop...it was awful!

What i was wondering was whether the ability to accompany comes with practise(as the conductor consoled me afterwards) and if flexibility in playing is just a skill that you learn or if, like my piano teacher says, its just a matter of knowing your music so well that no matter what happens, you still have the confidence to hold it together?

well, for me, it was only in this year when i have to accompany my school choir on the piano... it also happens to me... when i first started, i was also nervous... at first the introduction, it was all right but when they start singing, i just find it hard to continue...

but now, so long as i'm fluent with the piece and is able to play it smoothly, i wouldnt have any problem accompanying the choir, i no longer have nerves... so i guess probably it's because i'm more used to it this time round... so just try to get used to this and you will soon find that you wont have big problems in accompanying the choir!


ShArOn

I think accompanying is an important and valuable skill, and that it needs to be learned as an addition to solo playing.

I'm always tremendously impressed by the folks who do accompaniments for the Forums Concerts. They get perhaps 2 weeks to learn the music and then have to follow and support what the soloist is doing as well as playing their own part.

I think it must help to know the accompaniment well enough that you can watch and listen to the conductor or soloist rather than having to concentrate on the dots in front of you. Or alternatively be so comfortable with sight-reading that you again can look and listen to what else is going on rather than being fully focused on the piano.

And I'm sure that it must improve with practice, as all music does.

One really important thing is to keep going, no matter what. Of course it's great if you have time to learn the music, but very often you have to sight-read it at the rehearsal. I always keep a pulse going, even if it means I'm only playing the bass of the accompaniment, and fit in the rest if and when I can. If it's easy then there's no problem but sight reading things like the Bach B minor mass means usually just playing the left hand to start with for quite a lot of it,

It has to be learned and practised - and you have to know the music as it's still performing, so when I accompany choirs, no matter how straightforward the music appears I always practise it religiously as in accompanying you always have to split your concentration between what you're doing and what the conductor is doing, which means you need to know what you're doing well enough to be able to divert half your attention elsewhere, if you see what I mean!! And yes, you also get the nerves that come with perforiming even if it's accompanying rather than solo - which makes it doubly difficult! But don't worry - every accompanist has times they'd rather forget!! And the more you do, the better you get......

I think the first thing you need to do is actually study the work as it is - as a work - don't just look at the accompaniment in isolation. Understand what the work is about, what style it is, the character and if there is any interplay between choir and accompaniment etc. Understand what the choir is singing and how the choir parts and accompaniment link together. If you just concentrate on your own accompaniment and are blissfully unaware of what others are doing, that is a recipe for disaster! The basis of accompanying is that you should know the part that you are accompanying well, i.e. what the choir is singing.

After that, then get down to learning the accompaniment proper. Identify the parts where you may be playing on your own between verses etc. and make a mental note to play those passages a bit louder. It goes without saying that you should know your accompaniment inside out - it will be frustrating for the conductor and choir if you are playing the wrong notes (the choir relys on you a lot for their starting notes etc) and also playing at the wrong speed. There are a lot of accompaniment parts that are orchestral reductions and are therefore impossible to play. In these cases, pick out the essential notes (usually the left hand!).

When the choir sings, it may be helpful to play the bass notes louder so that the choir doesn't go out of tune and out of tempo. When you accompany, you must LISTEN to what everyone else is doing and not get stuck in your own little world at the piano! You should always look at the conductor to make sure that your tempo is spot on.

What I frequently do at choir rehearsals is I play the left hand as normal, but I play the soprano/alto part etc. in turn with the right hand to help the choir sections out. This depends on what sort of relationship you have with the conductor - some like it, some don't (but the choir always likes it!).

You should know the work well so that if you do get hopelessly lost, stop playing, listen to the choir, recognise which passage they are singing and then quickly jump in with the relevant accompaniment.

It IS a surprise when you first find out how much having voice or instrument part joining in can put you off when you thought you knew the piece quite well.
It improves with experience.
It's good if you have a friend you can work with on this as I think that one of the problems with getting accompanying experience is that you need to be able to do it to get the experience.... if you follow my thinking.

Good point FC about being aware of what is happening in the choral or instrumental part and understanding how it all fits together.

I'm accompanying a Grade 1 and two Grade 2 flautists for their exams in a couple of weeks.

One skill which you need for this type of accompanying is adaptability. You don't just need to know how to play your part fluently and successfully, you also need to be able to miss bits out/keep notes held on for longer if your nervous soloist forgets to count their rests or plays a crotchet instead of a dotted minim!

Lots of practice with the soloist in question (or others, who might make different errors) helps the accompanist as well as the soloist.

And have to keep up somehow with the ones who haven't a clue about timing at all and whose tempo is all over the place but have teachers who seem to think that they are ready for the exam....

When the conductor is talking to the choir, you must listen to what he/she is saying. You'll then know what his intentions are - he may be telling the choir that he intends to slow down a bit here, or whatever, and so you must know that is what will happen, so you can do the right thing at the right time. I find conductors don't often talk to the accompanist during rehearsal, but the accompanist is expected to know exactly where the conductor is going from and must be ready with the relevant notes for the choir. You need to know the conductor's intentions almost before they know themselves (6th sense helps here!!! - comes with experience )

I am accompanying for the first time ever in Dec!! Grade 5 Sax. I am a really nervous performer so I'm going to practice my parts like mad even though they aren't that difficult for me. The lady I'm accompanying owns the music school where I teach so the pressure is really on as I teach............ piano Being able to play the notes and being able to accompany are very different skills indeed I hope it goes well because it's something I would love to persue, it would be lovely to play with other instruments, something I have never done sadly

GOOD LUCK for future accompanying

If I'm accompanying a soloist I find a useful thing to do is to record the solo part and then play the accompaniment with it. I find it helps me to get to know the solo part and to know what I should be hearing from my soloist at specific points in the music. It doesn't matter if the recorded solo part isn't the actual instrument - you're only using it as a tool to help you practise.

Yes, I was going to do just that or buy the CD to listen to the solo but as it turned out, the lady in question has recorded herself playing the pieces and she gave me the Cd just today I am going to listen to it constantly

Don't let a bad experience put you off! If I'd done that I'd have closed the piano lid permanently on a number of occasions! All the above advice is good, and nothing is better for you than practice and experience. The sad thing is that the accompanist never really gets much credit for doing well, but you feel like you stand out like a sore thumb when things go badly! But it's like riding a bike - just get back on and you'll soon learn to cope with the unexpected bumps - whether they're your own or the choir's/soloist's. Even the very best (which does not include me!) can make major faux pas when accompanying. It's one of the most difficult things to do, musically, as you're concentrating on so many things at once.

Definately, I accompany exams every term. I need to know the piece well enough to miss out any line without fussing- as someone did this last exam.

You also, for exams etc, cannot show your nerves as this means the soloist will be even more nervous.

But I get people specifically asking for me every time they do an exam- so I must be doing something right !

You absolutely need to know the music inside out and I would also suggest to you that you or anyone else who is accompanying needs to know the part that you are accompanying too! One of the skills that is required in accompanying is that of listening. If you are not completely aware of the other part, then the danger for it not going well will always be there.

Of course sometimes time is an issue but if you can spend time learning and knowing the other part, then it will be far more safe.

That is of course the best case`scenario, but for those of us who accompany all the time, personally I have no problems with sight-reading and listening to the soloist at the same time. I often accompany for concerts where I am given the music as I play it and I have no problem staying exactly with the soloist or covering up their mistakes. Though of course I have been doing it for years - let's not go into quite how many years...

Same here, Countess - I usually have pieces given to me one minute before the rehearsal starts! Why not go into how many years? Can't be as bad as my 99 years!!! HEHEHE!!!

Ah yes - I have not as many years experience as you...
In fact seeing as I am registered as 1 year of age, I think I have done rather well...

Wow, so you are. You must be a child prodigy to have learned to write by the age of 1 year old!! I started accompanying at age 13 and am now almost at retirement age, so have I have done it the longest?

I too am often given the music at no notice at all. In fact, in Youth choir the conductor gives out the music to the singers at the first rehearsal and forgets to hand any to me! He also does a run through straight away just to give the choir an idea of what it goes like so it'll be sight reading up to speed from the beginning. It's a luxury to be given the music beforehand

Absolutely - and I have to say I get so blase about it now that if anyone does actually give me the music beforehand it tends to sit on my table till the actual concert!

Quite a number of festivals now have a class for 'accompaniment'. In most cases this is to accompany a singer, which is only part of the story of course. Anyone wishing to really specialise in accompanying should enter one of those classes for the experience.
Certainly popular test pieces have included Vaughan Williams 'The Roadside Fire' (Songs of Travel) and Elgars 'The Shepherds Song'.. I think these are good examples. Some others by these composers are also good accompaniment practice, notably Elgars 'Sea Pictures and VW 'Silent Noon'.
Its a little different accompanying an instrumentalist. But is some cases the piano part is important rather than just an accompaniment eg Beethovens 10 sonatas (and I think also Mozarts) are published as 'Sonatas for Piano and Violin' rather than the other way round.
I play piano to my daughter's violin and singing. As she lives 200 miles away its not very often , so I have now bought the Beethoven 'Violin' Sonatas myself and the 'Sea Pictures' so I can practise them at home.

For my accompaniment diploma (taken in the early 1970s) I had to accompany a violinist and a singer. Memory not very good these days but I think the 2 voice pieces were "The New Ghost" by VW and "A Christmas Carol" by Arnold Bax - they might be worth adding to a list of pieces for good accompaniment practice. For the instrumental pieces I agree that often the piano part is just as important as the instrumental part, and is often harder to play. I have just turned down someone who wanted me to play for a diploma exam (actually they expected me to play, without even asking me, but that's another story) because I couldn't manage one of the accompaniments at the speed it would have to go at (Small hands, great handfuls of chords and spread out arpeggio passages played at crotchet = 160)

I started accompanying at age 13 and am now almost at retirement age, so have I have done it the longest?

I started at around 9 - so might not be so far behind!

One of my earliest recollections was in 1960 (age 13) I played the entire score of 'The Gondoliers' for a concert performance, and 'Pirates' the following year. The Gondoliers was the first time I wore a bow tie!

My first accompanying experience (also age 13, also 1960, so we must be the same age Fsharpminor!) was playing for rehearsals of White Horse Inn with a local light opera group. I've never played it since, or heard it. It was round about that time that I realised I would never be a concert pianist, but that I thoroughly enjoyed accompanying.

My ex-saxophone teacher who is also an examiner has experienced many exams where the accompanist just plays too loud. It is so important that the accompanying is just that. If there is a 'f' dynamic marked, it must be a combined 'f', not both being loud.

Being flexible and keeping going with whatever the soloist plays is vital and can only be achieved with plenty of practice.

Who has met this when going through a piece for accompanying for an exam . 'Oh, by the way, my harmonic minors are a bit ropey - could you ask me some, and my teacher hasn't had time to do any aural and asks if you could do it ....' good grief!! Do some teachers ONLY teach the pieces ?

Yes

I'm just about to accompany an exam for the first time and I'm the one who has been left to cover the aural.
I've also spent time helping with timing, how to practice, what the mood of the pieces is and appropriate tempo. Breathing marks put in the wrong place I've just left.

Hi, I am a grade 8 violin player, so come at this from the other side. In an exam situation the accompaniest is often a much better player than the one 'playing the lead' and has to really know both parts, and listen to them both - must be so hard. Everyone you accompany will be different, but when you get used to playing along with someone it is great fun.

Here is a plea. If you are accompanying someone, don't tell them you don't like the music as it is really offputting. It is actually worse than criticising someone's playing.

Personally I have found that piano players who also play strings are more sympathetic accompaniests for violin. They just seem to know what are going to be the tricky spots, but it may be that I just feel that they understand better and that helps build up a better relationship.

Good luck.

Alison

Hi Alison, and welcome to the Forums.

Thanks for the plea! You're absolutely right, it's not for the accompanist to inform the exam candidate that he doesn't like the music - sort of implies that the soloist ought to play it more attractively!!

I enjoy accompanying (any instrument) - and accompanists should be open to discussing those "tricky spots" with the soloist in rehearsal.

I had exactly the same experience, in front of several people on this forum. Was a real surprise as it came just after I'd played a fairly difficult piece (Chopin Mazurka in G# min) pretty well.

I rehersed the piece with a flautist friend of mine, and the first few sessions with her were disasterous. She'd start playing and I'd immediately grind to a halt. However, we did get there in the end. I rehearsed the piece with the soloist fairly well, but once the added nervousness of an audience was there I just couldn't do a thing!!!

I think pianists are at a disadvantage here since most other instruments are always accompanied so they develop a sense of listening to two things at once.

I shall definately try accompanying again - one day!

Hey, thanks everyone for all your replies! I've found them so helpful. I guess it might be better now that ive delt with my nerve problem, and ive just started to work in a chamber group, so im starting to get used to the idea of knowing the other parts...but with chamber group, everyone else follows the piano, so i dont really have to worry about keeping in time with the others! LOL! Ive asked a violinist friend of mine to help me out with accompanying, so she's just going to use her grade pieces and she'll let me practise accompanying her!

That's an excellent idea.

What about playing some fun stuff together too (though I hope her grade pieces are also fun)?

That's definitely not a skill needed only by exam accompanists. It's an absolute requirement. I think of musical performance as a branch of the acting profession, and being able to cover up the soloist's errors of omission or commission without any hint of a twitch or a give-away facial expression is a must!


I do get quite depressed about the number of exam candidates I accompany whose understanding of rhythm-reading is almost non-existent. If they aren't playing the rhythm in their pieces accurately, and don't understand how to count the rests, it can be a really uphill struggle to give a half-decent performance. In addition though most of them can read the pitch of the notes in their pieces they may not recognise the highest or lowest ones in their scales as they have often not seen them written in music notation. This means that they can be faced in the sight-reading (according to what's in the syllabus) with totally unfamiliar notes as well as being unable to play the rhythm accurately.



I like the term I'm seeing increasingly in an American context: "collaborative pianist". The piano part isn't always just background to whatever it's accompanying, whatever the dynamic. A conductor I played for years ago introduced me to the concept of "solo" and "accompanying" dynamics. In other words you need to look at the whole musical context before deciding whether two parts should balance equally or not. Quite often there will be little conversational phrases even in simple exam music where momentarily the piano copies what the other instrument has just played, or vice versa. Baroque pieces often have this sort of interplay between the bass line and the solo line and in the interests of a musical performance both players need to know when to play in the foreground and when in the background. I see no reason to prepare a performance for an audience of one any less musically than a concert performance.

Join the club. This close to an exam it's not worth starting a fight with another teacher about breath marks. If I find myself accompanying someone who seems to be breathing totally at random and has no marks already in the copy I do sometimes put breath marks in, explaining why they are where they are. Sometimes they can make use of them even quite late in their preparation. I hope you will enjoy your first exam accompanying and want to go on. I do still generally enjoy it, helping people to feel that they are giving a real performance. Usually the last thing I say as we go to the exam room is "give the examiner a nice concert!".

Especially sometimes when you're thinking "oh my ---, what on earth are they doing?. Is this bad enough to stop or shall I keep going and hope they pick it up again?"


I've had this even with people who are working for diplomas. In a recent "run through" with someone, they ended up 4 bars ahead of me simply because they weren't counting. It drives me mad.

A good accompianist will not make the soloist think that either! (Has happened to me before!) Ideally, I think both the soloist and the accompianist should both know both parts inside out.

On a first run through I aim to stick with them no matter what outrage they commit, just to start off by letting them know it's possible, especially if it's already quite near an exam, as quite often happens. After that I hope to work steadily through sorting out bit by bit what should have happened! I expect you've met the ones who seem totally unable to start anywhere but at the beginning...

Can't start anywhere but the begining? Thinking about it, starting a piece at the begining is quite rare for me, once I've had the first bash through to see what it sounds like....

What seems to be coming out of this is that the accompanist's job often ends up being a teaching job as well! The ideal scenario would be for an instrumental teacher to have an accompanist permanently on hand for lessons - or even for one lesson in about four, but this would make the price of lessons prohibitive for most.

I can see that I'm incredibly lucky to have a teacher who is also an extremely good accompanist...

Wait... so what's everyone saying here? From the gist of it, i presume you need to work hard and really know the music when you first start accompanying, but as you get better and more experienced, you have already learned the skill, and no longer need to know the music so well?

Hi

Originally you asked about accompanying a choir. To do that well requires a slightly different skill set to accompanying instrumentalists; especially in rehearsal.

You don't have to know the specific piece well. You should, however, be able to sight read brilliantly, and you should be able to score read. That is, you need to be able to play the SATB lines when the conductor wants them, or any combination of choral lines in a particular section.

And you have to be able to read the conductors mind. You have to listen to what s/he's saying to the choir and know where s/he's going to restart from before s/he says it so you are ready to give the choir their notes or play the required few bars in.

And you should be able to play without looking at the keys. It's best to look at the music and the conductor.

The ability to do all that and be a good accompanist doesn't come from knowing the music well. It comes from the depth of your musicianship. It's not so much about knowing *the* music well, and more about knowing *music* well.

b

I agree with most of this - though in performance, to be a 'good' accompanist and to bring out the best in the music, you should always know the piece well. I have seen many accompanists play the right notes at the right time with good musicianship but missing the finer points in the music that give the overall performance that added 'sparkle'.

With experience, the preparation time decreases tremendously and it can almost boil down to score/sight reading the piece well but one should not forget that an understanding and awareness of the finer details of the work can enhance the performance too! So, when the conductor tells the choir something, I listen as well!

Hi Alias, that's great and you'll be doing your violinist friend a very big favour too. A friend of mine helped out like this before I did my last exam, and it meant I was very familiar with the piano part when it came to the day (and considering it was Aus der Heimat by Smetana, so the piano is half of a duet, not just an accompaniment, even more reason to be grateful).