It is often very hard for a pupil to really know how well they have done in sightreading - especially Associated Board sightreading which tends to be fairly unmusical at the best of times. In my experience examiners are usually quite generous in marking sightreading, especially in the early grades. They have to give 7 if any sort of attempt is made. 12 is a lowish mark and certainly wouldn't be given if things had gone well. Key, pulse and rhythm should all be in evidence (even slightly). Unfortunately examiners' comments don't always reflect the weaknesses. I think some of them try and accentuate the positive in order to make the pupil feel a little better despite the low mark. The same goes for the scales. No examiner would say there was something wrong with a scale is there wasn't. An unknown piano with a different touch can often cause a pupil to play scales rather badly as they can't adjust their touch quickly enough.

It is very disappointing when a pupil doesn't do as well as expected BUT it is worth considering that perhaps your idea of the standard expected might be a little misjudged. I am not saying it is - but when the play the exam game we have to play by their rules. This is why I am not a great fan of music exams per se and prefer to use local festivals and my own pupils concerts to give a pupil goals and incentives. One last thought - if you haven't already done so maybe you could tape your pupils. I find this really helps them listen to their playing in a constructive and realistic way.

If you have the opportunity to attend any sessions run by the AB or Trinity Guildhall you could always quiz them on the standard expected. Some of these sessions demonstrate the kind of playing required and so can be very useful.

hope this is of some help to you. Good luck

I use the tape recorder quite often especially with exams looming and have recently been asking pupils to criticise their own pieces during the lesson, so that they learn to evaluate their own work, before we discuss how to move forward. It is interesting that even young pupils at quite lowly grades learn to listen to themselves and know how to improve.

Tell me about it.......my keyboard players find it easier to play even scales on the keyboards than the pianists do. Even the touch response keyboards don't help, as you have to really hammer the keys to get an even sound !!!

SORRY, I meant to say my keyboard players find it HARDER to play even scales.......etc (It's late and I should be in bed!!!!)

I know this is off topic from the original post but I was just wondering were the exam pieces for Trinity the same as for AB? If they were- was this just a coincidence for this particular grade or do the same pieces often appear for both boards?

i can only comment on the woodwind syllabuses but there are very often the same pieces set for AB and TG exams. sometimes they are graded differently though. for example i have a pupil who played a piece called 'soho' for his grade 5 AB exam and could then have done it again for grade 6 with guildhall. it can equally go the other way too with AB rating a piece as a higher grade than TG. makes for interesting debates about what the examiners are looking for.

Yes I agree, and seeing you have 20 years worth of experience, then that counts for a lot. Young teachers with only a handful of years teaching experience (and without any prolonged study of music at university or music college) don't have the breadth or depth of experience or knowledge to be able to say with confidence what thier pupils should get in an exam. It would be worth knowing whether any of those who are very vocal in thier complaints have been on any of the AB seminars to see exactly how transparent the marking scheme is in practice. I found them really enlightening when I first went on one, but it takes guts to admit that as a teacher, your rose-tinted views of your own pupils may not be in line with someone coming in afresh (ie an examiner). Notice also how few complaints there are that marks are too high! Perhaps some teachers are happy to accept what they perceive as examiner error if the marks are too high, but not if too low?

Of course, I hear the AB is always on the lookout for new examiners, so perhaps those who want to be better teachers could become examiners and share the experience with us in the forums.........

I find that comment quite offensive. I'm a young teacher with 6 years experience, but fully qualified as a music teacher having completed a B.Ed Honours degree. All of the candidates I have entered so far for exams (55 candidates) have all achieved their predicted band pass, merit or distinction. Having taught for 20 years doesn't make anyone great at judging what they will get. Sitting with the criteria and applying the criteria accurately will help predict accurately. It's like saying someone must be a superb teacher becasue they've taught an instrument for 30 years, but the newly qualified teacher out of college can be a much better teacher!

What i don't agree with is people teaching without appropriate qualifications, having passed grade 7/8 does not make you a teacher. The amount of pupils i have taken on recently who have been taught, badly, by people who have no teaching qualification and call themselves a teacher because they passed grade 7 or 8 is unbelievable. They have poor technique, don't know how to go about learning a piece of music and cannot read rhythms. It's about time it was regulated.
Sorry, rant over!

Rant allowed! Sorry, it wasn't supposed to be offensive, but your reply merely indicates how good a teacher you are, and how little you seem to be complaining about the exam system, and more importantly, that you understand the criteria and are able to apply it before the exam.

I didn't say that teaching for longer necesarily made them better teachers, but gave them a broader and deeper understanding of what their pupils are capable of in exam situations. I also agree that there are too many people (teachers and parents!) who think that just because they have got grade 8, that makes them into a good teacher and I've seen enough of the pupils they produce to know the damage it can cause.

I don't think that doing exams prepares you for putting other people in for them. I teach classroom music, and just because I didn't do GCSE music (too old), it doesn't hamper my teaching of it. I'm sure driving instructors would agree here....? If you are 23 years old and have been doing exams for 13 years, I don't see how doing grade one aged 10 (13 years ago!) means that you prepare your candidates in a way that reflects your experiences?

And of course, not studying music in depth for a period of time disadvantages those who choose to teach without going to university/college. I didn't say it made someone a bad teacher, but it cleary does leave an awful lot of gaps in the knowledge that have to be made up somewhere...

The Teacher can pick the pieces for the Joint Assessment exams and out of the 5 played, 3 were on the current AB Syllabus.

[quote name='andrewliv' date='Dec 11 2006, 11:42 AM' post='433027']
[quote]

What i don't agree with is people teaching without appropriate qualifications, having passed grade 7/8 does not make you a teacher. The amount of pupils i have taken on recently who have been taught, badly, by people who have no teaching qualification and call themselves a teacher because they passed grade 7 or 8 is unbelievable. They have poor technique, don't know how to go about learning a piece of music and cannot read rhythms. It's about time it was regulated.
Sorry, rant over!
[/quote]



I know for a fact that the amount of hard work and effort I put in combined with the results I see from pupils qualifies me to call myself a teacher. We all have to start somewhere.

Obviously I'm working on gaining my diploma. I also take every opportunity to increase my skills in both teaching and performing, which many people who feel they already know it all (and have the piece of paper to prove it....) don't bother to do.

I don't call myself a teacher simply because I have grade 8. I call myself a teacher because that is, infact, what I do, and it's something I take very seriously. I'm sure there are plenty who don't, but it's unfair to assume someone like myself must be incapable.

I recently took on a pupil from another teacher who had 20 years experience and qualifications coming out of her ears. The teacher used to knit during the lesson rather than pay attention, and had signed a Duke of Edinborough form (which I have seen) declaring the girl to be of grade 3 standard. She would barely pass a grade 1 sight reading test, and at her first lesson could not tell me the meaning of common time. Not the pupil's fault, obviously.

There are exceptions to every rule

xxx

[quote name='amanda41' date='Dec 11 2006, 11:55 PM' post='433314']
[quote name='andrewliv' date='Dec 11 2006, 11:42 AM' post='433027']
[quote]

What i don't agree with is people teaching without appropriate qualifications, having passed grade 7/8 does not make you a teacher. The amount of pupils i have taken on recently who have been taught, badly, by people who have no teaching qualification and call themselves a teacher because they passed grade 7 or 8 is unbelievable. They have poor technique, don't know how to go about learning a piece of music and cannot read rhythms. It's about time it was regulated.
Sorry, rant over!
[/quote]



I know for a fact that the amount of hard work and effort I put in combined with the results I see from pupils qualifies me to call myself a teacher. We all have to start somewhere.

Obviously I'm working on gaining my diploma. I also take every opportunity to increase my skills in both teaching and performing, which many people who feel they already know it all (and have the piece of paper to prove it....) don't bother to do.

I don't call myself a teacher simply because I have grade 8. I call myself a teacher because that is, infact, what I do, and it's something I take very seriously. I'm sure there are plenty who don't, but it's unfair to assume someone like myself must be incapable.

I recently took on a pupil from another teacher who had 20 years experience and qualifications coming out of her ears. The teacher used to knit during the lesson rather than pay attention, and had signed a Duke of Edinborough form (which I have seen) declaring the girl to be of grade 3 standard. She would barely pass a grade 1 sight reading test, and at her first lesson could not tell me the meaning of common time. Not the pupil's fault, obviously.

There are exceptions to every rule

xxx
[/quote]

This thread could go round and round in circles. I know from the classroom that simply having a PGCE doesn't make you a good teacher, it just means that they were good at some stage, or convinced the paper pushers in teacher training college that they were competent.

Where I think some teachers slip up is in thinking because they knew it all (or most of it!) at some stage, then they have no need to carry on learning. Continuing to do things which break out of the comfort zone is the vital ingredient to making a good teacher: good rapport with pupils of all ages and abilities; pushing yourself to continue to perform (how many teachers expect their pupils to conquer their nervous feelings, but don't actually perform themselves?); attending seminars (not necessarily run by the AB, though they are good, especially if you are preparing pupils for exams); etc. etc. Experience is difficult at the start, you're right that everyone has to start somewhere, but its what you do with what you start with! Age isn't important, I've seen enough bad young/old teachers and some brilliant young/old teachers to know that age isn't a handicap to being a good teacher. Readers may have misunderstood my other comments that I was having a go at young teachers, which I certianly wasn't.

That's my rant over!

Perhaps this thread should close, before too many cans containing worms are opened!!

Not really on the original topic, but relevant to points that have been raised - and I certainly don't think this thread should be closed, because we are here to discuss pertinent issues that are of passionate interest to all us, and not to brush them under the carpet. There is little point in being here if we all agree on everything! Views should be aired, and all are worth hearing.

With regard to teaching with or without qualifications and/or experience.

It has been said many times that the best teachers are not always the most experienced or the most highly qualified, and I would agree, but the question is, how does the "client" know when choosing a teacher? My answer would be that a young teacher starting out with a few pupils when only at Grade 8 standard will often have the backing of his or her own teacher, and it would be useful to make this clear - if only for the sake of inspiring confidence in one's pupils and their parents. The enthusiasm and open-mindedness of a new teacher is something to be highly valued; in the case of an intelligent person, with musicality, this might well be enough. But combined with the experience of an "old hand", I would say that this is actually likely to be the best teacher that you will find.

Guilmant - no, I didn't get the impression that anyone was criticising young teachers in particular Regarding being able to predict exam results though, so far I've marked my own "mocks" far too harshly, and then it's been nice when they do better than expected! There are too many variables to be 100% certain about a result, but I'd guess the more experience you have the greater the chance of being accurate.

The post I was referring to was the one I quoted directly (with no ill will meant towards the author!), which did seem to a make the assumption that anyone who has passed grade 7/8 feels they have the right to call themselves a teacher.

I actually have no doubt that there are those who do make that assumption about themselves, but hopefully they soon realise that the ability to teach an instrument is not always in direct relation to how proficient their performing skills are. I think the reason why the performing diploma and the teaching diploma are two seperate qualifications proves this to a point?

As someone else said, how does the client know whether the person they choose to teach their child is up to the job? Lots of qualifications and experience inspire confidence and attract pupils, so as long as the teacher lives up to expectations, that's great. I prove my worth by working hard, being professional and honest. Pupils and parents are aware of my qualifications, and frequently ask how my studies are going. Many of the parents have taken high grades on instruments themselves, so there would be no fooling them if their child wasn't progressing.

I get involved with local festivals and go to EPTA meetings where older teachers are very welcoming and happy to give advice. At no point have any of them ever suggested I shouldn't be teaching because I only have grade 8. They take me on my merits, despite being the only one in the group without a diploma.

It's an interesting topic, so I hope it doesn't close! I don't normally get worked up about things I just felt a real pang of sadness that someone would be prepared to write me off before having met me, because they don't agree that I should be teaching on the qualifications I have.

If you ever took on one of my pupils Andrew, I think you would be pleasantly surprised. I hope this goes some way to softening your views a little, and not letting your experiences lead you to believe all teachers with only grade 8 are the same.

xxx

What an interesting discussion.

Would I send my child to a dentist whose qualifications were A-level dentistry (if such a thing existed) and claims to hard work and honesty?

Unlikely.

Yet I had no idea what qualifications the piano teacher to whom we sent our son (aged 9) had because at the time I thought 'it's only piano lessons'. He stayed with that teacher until grade 7 when she encouraged us to move him on because he was getting better than her.

I'm sure there's an argument to be made about the choice of piano teacher being as important as dentist or driving instructor but the timescales are different. A couple of terms with a duff music teacher won't do so much damage that it can't be recovered in another term with a good one. Five minutes with an incompetent dentist doesn't bare thinking about.

I suspect the most important attribute of a teacher is their ability to teach. That one can perform well does not mean that one either can or cannot teach well. Qualifications are a helpful guide but not a guarantee. I'm sure we can all think of qualified academic teachers from our pasts who could not teach.

I think I've met great qualified teachers, great unqualified teachers and certainly one disastrous qualified teacher. But it's music. It isn't life and death.

b

That's true, but if we were to go out shopping for a sofa with a set amount of money to spend, we'd want the one that would serve us best for the purpose intended!

I think the willingness to continue to learn, as well as teach, is important in a teacher. This is what can be lacking in some older, more experienced teachers. (And I did say "some", not all, by any means!) Teaching and learning are intrinsically inter-linked, and it is part of the learning process for the pupil to put forward suggestions that will be taken on board and given serious consideration by the teacher - both in terms of technicalities AND teaching methods. Learning and teaching should open the mind to the infinite nature of both, not close it to the extent that the teacher thinks, "I'm more experienced than you. I've got the qualification. We'll do it my way. You/he/she could not possibly be right because you haven't got an exam in it."

Perhaps it's just the unfortunate circumstance that all I seem to do, both in the classroom as a teacher and as a private tutor, is recover pupils from poor private teaching. Whether it be singing teachers who think it's perfectly acceptable to teach pupils to sing through their nose or piano teachers who teach no technique and mainly by rote. But then again, maybe I just have high standards in what I teach and believe should be taught. Other replies have been interesting and are worth consideration, it is true in what is said that you wouldnt go to a dentist that wasnt qualified, nor a health care professional, like a doctor, who is not qualified. So is it really too much to expect that those in the teaching profession, perhaps do some training to find out how a person learns, different learning styles and reaches a professional standard before trying to instruct someone else? Now when I am taking pupils over who have previously learned with another tutor I audition them, and check out just where they are at. I am just frustrated at the amount of keen pupils I have received who have had such a poor initial grounding that i've had to backtrack and plug gaps in knowledge and skill... and it is this that is demoralising for a child who has passed Grade 2 to find that they have so many gaps in their knowledge. I talk from experience. In no way am I trying to say I know it all, as in teaching you are always learning, but what i am certain of is that I have a professional qualification and training that equips me to do the job. It is those that take money from people for lessons and don't do the job properly that I am frustrated with. And you can see by the many threads on here from people having passed grade 7 or 8 and taking on beginners asking for advice that highlights the problems the private music teaching industry face.

I have said before my eldest got a distinction for Grade 2 sax, she has lessons with a qualified teacher. Coming up to the exam I was concerned that something was wrong, not being musical I didn't know what, only used my own ears when she practised. I eventually asked the student nest door for help, he had Grade 7 and no previous experience of teaching. He recognised straight away that it was a problem with breathing and helped my daughter correct it. In the end she got a distinction, her real teacher had a pupil the previous session who took the same exam and only got a pass. My daughter wouldn't have got the result she did with out the student's help but I bet she could have managed it with him and not the teacher.

I think it's too easy to judge based on qualifications, experience etc and to generalise these things can only be a guide and what will work for one person will not work for another. There has got to be lots of unqualified teachers who do an excellent job, whose skills have been built up over the years. My priority is how the person interacts with my child and if they impart knowledge, and if am I able to hear progress and that's more valuable than exam results or their qualifications.

I think these people are going about things the right way: asking for advice and continuing to learn. I would suggest it is those who don't ask for advice who are heading towards trouble.

I too have taken over large numbers of students with difficulties which arise from inadequate or incorrect teaching. The vast majority of those have been taught, not by private teachers, but by teachers working in state schools and employed by County music services. The problems arise as much, if not more, from the system than from the teachers themselves: taught in groups of vastly different abilities; flautists taught by clarinettists who have only a vague grasp of embouchure and fingering; students taught only exam pieces because 20 minute shared lessons are often cut short, and then sent away to 'learn scales' with the result that they don't know any...

Poor teaching exists where teachers are battling the system, or where they are not encouraged to seek extra training or ask questions if they run into difficulties. A teaching qualification can assist with some of these problems. What it does not do is distinguish the good teacher from the not so good.

Sometimes gaps in knowledge and lack of technique is in spite of the teachers' best efforts and not because of their failings.
It's amazing how hard some children work on NOT learning.....I've seen it happen.

Having said that, another private music teacher local to my house was castigating the county music service yesterday for not preparing pupils properly for exams. Having seen the rate they don't pay. They certainly don't attract me to join their team. I've also picked up some casualties en-route too.

Me too!

As well as this, there are some children for whom teaching by rote is the only option if they are to play at all - whether this is because they categorically refuse to learn the notes, or because there is some form of dyslexia there - perhaps previously unrecognised. I have taken a few pupils from other teachers and been perturbed to find that they've made it to, say Grade 3, without really reading the music, but a year or so down the line, I understand why! And I'm sure that if another teacher was to take over from me with one or two of mine the situation would be the same. Some will never make it as musicians, but still get enjoyment from playing, so I do think that sometimes it's pragmatic to cut your losses - having first done your best, obviously. I would only criticise another teacher after having the child myself for some considerable time - or if something had been blatently omitted.

One thing I really do get annoyed about is a pupil never having been taught how to hold its hands when playing the piano! Flat fingers and wrists below the level of the wood is something that makes clarity in the upper grades very difficult, and I'm amazed at how often this seems to have slipped through the net with pupils who have come from another teacher - qualified or otherwise!

I can't imagine myself even mentioning exams to someone in that position let alone agreeing to enter them.

It's not at all unreasonable to expect a private teacher to have gone through training, studying etc...

I was expecting the comment about driving instructors/dentists and qualifications! I know someone who was able to take an intensive 6 week course as a driving instuctor and be on the road with someone's life in his hands 3 weeks later. Don't assume all driving instructors are qualified unless they specifically advertise to be so, as you may find yourself getting in to a vehicle with a trainee.

If I re-took my A'levels in different subjects, then went off to Dental school, I could be drilling holes in teeth 5 years from now. I have been playing the piano and studying music for 22 years. I too have high standards. My pupils are happy, their parents are happy, and I am happy in my work. I will continue to call myself a piano teacher (as well as a student), and when I get my diploma I'll be just as happy as I am now. I'll also be certain to be supportive of any teacher who comes into the forum for advice. To do so in the first place indicates they have their pupils' best interests at heart - hardly an example of a problem within the industry.

Many teachers, myself included, have expressed concerns over the rush/pressure for some to have grades under their belt, or to be a "higher grade" than their friend, even at the expense of taking the time to learn properly. I'm not one of these teachers who push grades, and I refuse to be such a student either.

In fact, when I do get my diploma, I'm not even going to put it on my forum signature. I'll inform my clients of the result, then keep the certificate in the piano stool for anyone who wishes to view it. It still won't be proof that I'm qualified to teach. In my view, I prove that every day. Alternatively I could sew it onto my jumper, insist the kids start calling me "Miss xxxx", double my fees and suggest other people who haven't taken the same route are unqualified? OK I exaggerate, but sometimes I see in professionals exactly the kind of "what grade are you?" attitude I so desperately try to quell in students.

xxxx


xxx

Well said!

I've only read the last page on this - but will go back to read the rest later.

I just wanted to turn this question on it's head a bit. How many of you out there have experienced "bad" teachers when you were learning? Did it do any permanent damage? Could you or your parents afford an extremely well qualified and experienced teacher when you started? Do you think many parents would invest in the best possible teacher they could find before they even knew if their child was going to be any good or if the child was going to enjoy it?

I learned through state school lessons and averaged one teacher per year until I reached university. With each new teacher I expected to have to learn something new. The biggest learning curve being when I started University and gently had my flute technique taken apart and put back together again. My point is that having inexperienced teachers never did me any harm, my parents couldn't afford any better and I had the resillience to keep going. Taking on new pupils is always going to be challenging.

Let me know what you think - long may the discussion continue...

My first teacher had ALCM I think, and had been teaching for years. She was very close by which is why I was sent to her! She was good but never did much beyond grade work and constant exams.

That's why I changed to a teacher with a different approach when I was working for grade 6. He was in his early twenties and only just starting out, so I was one of his first pupils. I remember him taking the ALCM a while after I started with him. As a teenager I thought it was pretty cool that he actually knew about rock music, and showed me how to play piano by ear - something I never did with the previous teacher. I got a distinction in my grade 6 and and 7 with him, and am still in constant touch. He was the person who persuaded me to start teaching, and even now he phones to see how it's all going, and sometimes passes on job offers he's too busy to take up, like accompinament or background music playng. A great person

Other things I've found out for myself, like certain techniques I don't ever remember being taught specifically.

My first teacher would have just said "play this trill, it sounds like this." She didn't really give me any ideas on what techniques to do to make the same sound - I was just expected to have it reproduced by the following week.

I've benefited from two very different styles of teaching, and liked my both my teachers. I always knew I wanted to do something musical as a career from early on, so I guess I did a lot of independant learning too.

Despite the reason for leaving the first teacher, she still took me from beginner to a competant grade 5. My sight reading was terrible until I was about 17. No teacher was to blame though - they did their best. Once I actually practised sight reading, I got good at it!

xxxx

Who knew that my thread could lead do such a discussion

I feel that as a young teacher (19) who has taught for 3 years, and the fact that I expected a higher mark for my students, I should defend my position!

Firstly, I would not say I'm a fully qualified teacher, I am learning to be one in my opinion. I've read some posts about bad teachers teaching bad technique and some students pass on not being able to read a single note. This doesn't necessarily mean that the teacher is "bad", as has been pointed out, as I have 5 students currently and 3 of them are very competent sight readers, while I have one girl who isn't as competent. I have battled to improve her sight reading and rhythm work, she has the "improve your sight reading" books and we do sight reading without fail every lesson. However, if she was to pass on to another teacher now, I would hate to think that, that teacher would think I was a terrible teacher having put in so much hard work with her to improve it. (questioning dyslexia)

I expected a high-ish mark from this particular girl as she had one first place in the grade 2-3 class, won the trophy which spanned over 4 different classes and had received a merit in grade 1. I'm not protesting that all this should mean she should get a high mark, but having achieved all this, I thought I was doing most things right with her.

There are some things that I am still learning myself. I have a teacher, who is showing me certain techniques that my old teacher never showed me, and I got to grade 8!

I wouldn't say I'm fully qualified, nor a great teacher, but what makes me a good, average teacher is the fact that I enter my students for festivals, and always go to them (i rarely see teachers at these, just parents) and my students enjoy doing these festivals and coming to lessons. I enter them for exams when I believe they are ready (for older students i ask them if they want to do the exam), and I know of teachers that dont bother. I plan my lessons, and I give my students different repertoire, from bach to jazz, to xmas songs. I also know my students, where they are in every book, and i know what i'm going to do with them. My new and old teachers dont have a clue what i'm doing, even if I've been learning the same piece for 4 weeks. I may not teach them everything they need to know, but they are inspired and love coming to lessons so at least maybe they will continue learning the piano, if not with me then someone else.

I agree though that grade 7/8 doesn't qualify you as a teacher. Same as I still have one year left of my maths degree, but I still tutor maths.

But what makes a good teacher, is a good standard of knowledge for the standard you wish to teach, patience, approachability, and the ability to inspire.

An important quality, is knowing you are not always right.

Very well said, JuicyJen! I thought you made some great points all round, but especially this! Best of luck for the future.

Agreed! You have a great attitude

xxx

Yes, I think I said this in one of my earlier posts. A willingness to keep on learning and admit one's mistakes. Sounds like you're a great deal further along the road to becoming a 'fully qualified' teacher (your words) than some who would claim to be one already. Are you planning to study music further?

I'm actually studying maths at uni (second year), and I'm planning to be a maths teacher!

I am continuing to have lessons myself to improve my standard of performing. Being a student, I'm finding it hard to get to the ABRSM courses. I know I'm going to have to give up some of my students as their standard improves, and I'm trying to make sure that doesn't happen anytime soon! I want to see them through the majority of their musical journey!

I think you didn't intend to say it quite like that!
But we know what you mean!

[quote name='guilmant' date='Dec 16 2006, 07:34 PM' post='435310']


xxx
[/quote]

Yes, I think I said this in one of my earlier posts. A willingness to keep on learning and admit one's mistakes. Sounds like you're a great deal further along the road to becoming a 'fully qualified' teacher (your words) than some who would claim to be one already. Are you planning to study music further?
[/quote]

I don't think I claimed to be fully qualified, as it was made quite clear I don't have my diploma and am constantly learning. I do call myself a piano teacher though, which I feel is justified given the fact it's my full time job

Apologies if you weren't referring to any of my comments, but just to clear that up incase there was any misunderstanding.

xxx

I think you're doing a great job and it would be a shame to believe that you may have to give up some of your students as their standards improve. They obviously enjoy coming to you and you have a great attitude - knowing you have limitations is the most humbling one a teacher can admit to. However, you say you have a teacher yourself. If you keep going with your teacher I'm sure you'll be able to gain enough knowledge to keep your students. Remember you are progressing too, and as long as you keep ahead of the pupils you'll be fine. You'll probably find that they won't want to leave you anyway, as I'm sure you have a good relationship with them. Good luck with both the music and maths teaching. I've heard people say they go together well, but I'm hopeless at maths, but hope I'm a good music teacher nonetheless!!

I think you're making a 'storm in a teacup'. Were you actually sitting in on the exam?. If not then the only people present were the examiner(s) and the pupil(s). Unless you were physically present in the performance room how do you know how they played?. You are comparing a result for G2 with a result for G1. As long as they passed what's the problem. They may do better at grade 3, not so good at grade 4 and brilliantly at grade 5 and so on. It's a nine day wonder, forget about it and move upwards and onwards. This time next year it will be a fading memory and you will wonder why you created such a fuss. One last thing it's a bad, bad idea to complain to the ABRSM and to name individual examiners. They are there to do a job and I don't think it is anything personal, take my advice and put this to bed now!

Or perhaps they are like far too many of my former pupils - flatly refused to have any hand position other than the one they were using, no matter how often they were told about it. Unfortunately you can't change what they do at home!

Liz

Yup - I know this sort - sometimes their hand position is so awkward and I can't get them to correct it, even if I try. I used to play with really flat fingers with my first piano teacher - that does not make her a bad teacher - she was amazing! My 2nd teacher was also brilliant, but he couldn't get me to correct my hand position either. It wasn't until my 3rd teacher that I suddenly sat up and took notice, and spent hours at the keyboard working on my hand position.........so you can't necessarily slate a teacher just because his or her pupils don't have wonderful hand positions......a teacher inspires, and instills and nourishes a love of the instrument....

Broadly speaking I'm with Roger in this. I got a bit of a shock this evening, having contributed to this thread when it was comparatively new (weeks ago) to see the turn it had taken. Sorry to hear there has been some ill-feeling. Though I myself consider, like Roger, that it's inappropriate to query the results of ABRSM, I suppose we shouldn't assume that it's only the younger or less experienced teachers who are inclined to do this. Whatever the legitimacy or otherwise of the would-be complainants, it is, I suppose a healthy sign to see that teachers (young and idealistic or otherwise) are out for their pupils to this extent and that they are not prepared to take disappointing results lying down -without letting off steam on these forums at least. I'm definitely one of the hard-bitten ones who have perhaps become too desensitised to the vicissitudes and fluctuations of examinaters - and candidates (for that matter).

LR

In fairness, I don't know that the original poster (as is the case in most threads that get long and involved) bargained for there to so be big a response, so the 'storm in a teacup' has arisen more from the fact that so many people had something to say, than from the fact that she was making a big issue of it herself. As I read it, she was simply putting out feelers to see what people felt about receiving results that were lower than expected.

So what was the result of your complaint? Is your pupil going to resit?

When one of my pupils did get a resit due to special considerations he did very well at it. ABRSM were extremely helpful... and approachable. With my Trinity Singing candidates getting lower than expected marks I did consider an appeal, but the pupils I wanted to appeal for said she'd rather pass in her own right rather than as a result of an appeal so I did not. Again the board was approachable.

Always read the regulations. If you feel something is awry and does not comply with them that's what the staff at the board are there for.

But, angry and frustrated as you may be, treat them with respect. they are there to help you. They want to help. They do not want an earful. Listen to what they offer. Like DCBarton and me, you may be pleasantly surpised.