Hey everyone!

This might seem a bit trivial, but I'm a real stickler when it comes to things like grammar etc...

A pupil of mine frequently refers to "them pieces," or "them notes"

This is one particular thing that drives me up the wall!

Anyhow, I generally think it's quite rude to correct people's grammar, and my mum says I'm not being paid to teach English so don't worry about it.

All the same, would it really be very interfering of me to politely correct a ten year old on this, even if it is a piano lesson, or shall I just bite my tongue and forget it?

xxx

When he says, "I like them pieces", could you say in reply, " I like those pieces as well" and reinforce correct grammar in a subtle and indirect manner.

I would be tempted to consciously say "those" notes or whatever quite clearly and obviously for a few weeks. Then if he/she continues to say "them" notes, just point out that it would be better to say those notes, but it might not have very much effect if he is hearing incorrect grammar at school or at home which would have a greater influence on him than just one half hour a week with you.

On the other hand, it can be surprising how much notice pupils take of what you say in the lesson - and that can be quite daunting at times.

You should probably ignore it - as it might be insulting to the child's parents if they passed on their way of speaking.

Having said that I would probably correct it immediately and then worry whether I'd done the right thing later.

And I’m not entirely certain that I speak perfectly myself….

Good idea!

I know it seems like a silly thing, but I shudder every time I hear it! I will try that.

Thanks!

xxx

I don't want to "overstep the mark" so just setting an example myself is probably the best thing to do.

All of my pupils go to good schools, but they will pick up these phrases from friends and hopefully grow out of it.

I would correct it in the same way that I would correct bad pronunciation of pieces or of names of composers. Do it gently though as I am sure you will.

Absolutely! The parents might pay me to teach clarinet to their offspring, but if offspring goes home having learnt a little grammar (or in the case of some recent lessons, physics or French), so much the better.

As a parent I'm always subtly correcting grammar in the way Melody amour states. When in a foreign country and I pick the wrong phrase I'm delighted when the natural french speaker (for example) corrects me. I would subtly correct and see if it goes in.

If a teacher did that for my child, I would be deiighted, not cross.

I'd agree with this, I wouldn't correct his grammar but I would use the correct words as much as possible and he should copy you. If in future he doesn't then by all means tell him in a kind way. You don't want him worrying about communicating with you for fear of using the wrong words.

I do this the whole time in a school situation!

Thanks for all the replies!

I'm very friendly with the parents and I'm sure they wouldn't be offended, but I'll be subtle anyway. It would be more a case of not wanting to seem patronising to the child, or as someone else said, have them worry about saying the wrong thing incase they get pounced on.

I'm quite sure I'm not perfect myself, but certain things do stick out a mile.

I also get the urge to send back letters I receive from secretaries with the apostophes used in the right places, but that's another story

xxx

Eats shoots and leaves - Lynn Truss a wonderful book makes me really laugh and is informative at the same time. I think there's even a children's version now.

I think it was Bernard Shaw who said "We are all teachers of English." - and he was right.

I am of Spanish origin but was born in this country and educated in an English grammar school. I speak fluent Spanish and in Spain it is quite usual to correct 'sloppy' spelling and in particular written and spoken grammar in both our own people (speaking now as a Spaniard) and with foreigners who 'attempt' to speak Spanish incorrectly. We are polite but nevertheless firm.

There is no excuse for bad grammar it is fundamental to the framework of a language and I am surprised at the number of English people who cannot speak their mother tongue fluently and correctly, and have absolutely no concept of English grammar.

Stop being PC; politely but firmly correct your pupil's atrocious grammar, you'll be doing him/her a big favour.

That is because they are not taught grammar at school. People around my age probably just about got taught some, but anyone much younger (shut up ben ) will simply never have been taught it.

No!!!

The use of your instead of you're annoys me. "Your stupid" What about about my stupid?

Is 'stupid' used as a lonely adjective here or is it a mis-spelling of the noun 'stupidity'?

You choose

"I should of practised that" is one that irritates me. I blame the meeja.

You mean you don't speak proper like wot I does?????

"less" instead of "fewer" annoys mem, especially when my History teacher says it. I don't openly correct him though- just change it in my notes!

I insist ALL my pupes speak the Queen's English like what it should be spoke.

Never had anyone complain about my constantly correcting the little lovelies. I think they just look on it as one of "Silly old Baggy's eccentricities".

Ho ho ho.

Stressed Bag (2 days of AB exams/accompanying/stewarding/being NICE to people etc coming up - WEEP) xx

that annoys me too - also "train station"...... it's not, it's "railway station".....!

I'm not alone in my concerns then!

xxx



I have just read a quote from this book on a website. It looks good

I got off to a bad start in a local Primary school when the secretary said "I've not got no more pupils for you"
I automatically corrected her and I think she has hated me ever since, I only survived a term there anyway.
I felt extremely unwelcome!

Children will only repeat what they hear, adults must lead by example. I hope my children aren't listening when I swear!!

Katie

<shakes chocolatedog by the paw for getting cross about train stations instead of railway stations>

I agree about "less" and "fewer". One day soon I shall take a thick marker pen to the "five items or less" sign in my local supermarket. Oh, and don't get me started on "different to" <harrumph different FROM harrumph>

What a joy to be among apostrophe anoraks as well!

Pendantically &c

I can't bear 'I was sat over there'.

Neither can I! I couldn't believe it when Zara Phillips, of all people, said that in her 'speech' at the Sports Personality of the Year bash .

Dear, dear...

I guess the real problem is language just keeps changing and evolving. That which we studied in school (back in the dark ages ) and today's "English" are just very different. It's like the American English and the English English - quite different!

That's true. I'll still be shouting, "It's controversy not "controversy" when the news comes on.

Deborah - it's also nice to find another "apostrophe anorak"

xxx

I have an enormous list of pet hates when it comes bad grammer and bad english and it takes a huge amount of discipline not to correct someone. The hardest one for me is 'gunnah' for going to. I always correct this by repeating the correct clear pronounciation back to the original speaker, emphasising and rounding my lips around the 'O' in 'go-ing'. However this backfired on me when at my husband's family gathering I automatically corrected him when he said 'gunnah' to a very young cousin. There was absolute horrified silence from the 20 or so family members and I felt awful that I had so publically and tactlessly humilated him in front of his family. His dad laughed hystercially, his mum glared at me and I, I wanted to die! We didnt speak for a week! We now laugh about it ,but it made me very, very careful who, when and where I corrected someone.

To stop our youngest saying 'like' after every word in a sentence, we set up a campaign of counting them loudly. It was very effective and she has extended the campaign to her friends!

Lots of my pet hates here too! My OH almost always says "sat" instead of sitting, and he insists it's regional, which I don't altogether accept.

He was describing a recent visit to his (very elderly) mother the other day - "she was sat here etc etc "
"Oh," I said, "did someone put her there?" but it fell on deaf ears I'm afraid.

Your / you're confusion seems to be getting more widespread, likewise its and it's.

Ah - you are a woman after my own heart, maggie!

I used to wind my friend's youngest nephew up like that. When I accused him of doing something he shouldn't have, he said, "I didn't do nothin'!"... "so you admit it then?"..."No! I just said, I didn't do nothin'!"..."But if you didn't do nothing, that means you must have done something?"... This carried on until he collapsed with the confusion of it all

Using "like" after a phrase is especially common over here. Not in this house though!

xxx

"Like" is now a very useful word. In just a single syllable it means "said with a tone of voice, facial expression and hand jestures which I am now demonstrating to you"

For example

"I was like 'Never' and she was like 'Yeah'"

This is, I think, a development of the english language which is to be applauded.

No, no, no, please no!!

I have just counted (quietly) 6 likes in my daughter's sentence, so I am seriously considering Ayshah's remedy, mainly because it's infectious (the like business and not Ayshah's remedy - bad English, sorry) and my son has just started to include "like" everywhere.

"Whom" I corrected!

I don't think we can blame everything on the schooling systems, i think it is more what is considered acceptable in teenage society. Those who speak correctly and grammatically would get ridiculed in certain social circles.

Besides, not all teenagers fit the stereotype - certainly, I correct my friends, teachers, parents etc when they mention my bugbears - "so fun" (SO MUCH OR SUCH!) "wrong" when it should be "wrongly", "less" instead of "fewer", and don't even get me started on apostrophes...

I've got quite a few of my friends correcting other people as well - it always makes me smile when someone says "Oh, that was so fun!" and a chorus of us yell SO MUCH OR SUCH! However, this did backfire the other day when I was talking in class - I added on an "and me" as an afterthought to a sentence, only to be deafened by people (including the teacher!) yelling back "AND I!" I stood corrected

Agreed - I hate "train station" too.

*hides*

What's wrong with "the train station"?

It's an Americanism. We have always had railway stations in this country - it's a term that has gradually crept in over the last few years.

I hate aberrant apostrophes too. Was it Keith Waterhouse who set up the society for the abolition of the aberrant apostrophe?




I'm not sure whether it's tactful to correct this or not .....

Ah, thanks Suepea!

I get annoyed when apostrophes are in the wrong place. My Mum is an English teacher so she always used to pick up on any mistakes I made, and now it drives me mad!

Yes, it was - many years ago. Good for him!!

I too am an English teacher in my other life (with part time piano pupils), but I have always found that regardless of how many times people are corrected, if they have grown up hearing "I done" " I seen" etc, it will take more than a few exercises in school or private tutors correcting them to make much of an impact. Not wishing to sound too snobbish I hope, but it's a bit of a class thing surely. I take people as I find them and, English teacher or not, don't want to jeopardise the friendship or working relationship by always correcting solecisms of speech. So I'd be inclined to spare your breath - original poster - and just concentrate on the content of what they are saying, block out the flawed grammar, and, yes, lead by example. Nearly all of us have some sort of weakness after all, when it comes to the application of strict grammatical rules. For example "None of mine are in bed yet" when it should read "None of mine is in bed yet". None= not one. There are words I can't spell. Hopefully not too many, but I realise that if an English teacher is not perfect in this area, then it's irritatingly self-righteous of me if I correct people in mid-sentence. In any case, what people say is often quite different from how they write it down. We are talking colloquialism more than grammar. The rules are quite different; in fact in modern society - with informal registers of language etc in speaking - there are virtually no "rules" as such for spoken English now. Sad in a way but we move with the times, alas.

LR

Thanks Lone Ranger!

Advice well heeded

I'm sure I make plenty of errors myself, so it would be hypocritical to correct only the error that irritates me more than any other!

I use many phrases I wouldn't put into writing, but as you say, colloquialism is different from bad grammar. You can't help soaking up the terms you hear every day.

I might refer to "The wain next door" speaking to a friend, but not in a letter!

xxx

My mum is an English teacher. Whenever my sister or I write letters to my mum, she would return them to us - all grammatical, spelling errors corrected in red ink!

Hehe that's what my sax teacher does whenever she receives a letter of complaint, which is quite often to be honest

wot? i dont fink theres nuffing wrong with todays enlgish

cor, vat's fik, vat iz. ve yoofa terday in't like us woz. vey don't tork proppa.

Absolutely correct! Thank You! I do not correct adults just squirm inside!

To confess here. When I was a teenager my own slippage was to add 'right' to the end of everything I said in a very similiar way to the current mode of 'like'. My parents knocked it out of me by saying LEFT every time! Drove me mad but worked.